Notching hollow trees

[Toddppm]

What do you do different when putting a notch in a hollow tree? This is one we did this week, thought I started high enough to have some good wood.NOT
Yes I know the notch is BIG. My aim was off when I put the notch in and had to widen it to face the right direction!

 

[Toddppm]

Close up, that orange part is not solid!

 

[Toddppm]

another

 

[Toddppm]

A couple feet lower! In the last one you can see there was only about 3" good wood left on one side and maybe 8" on the other?

 

[Toddppm]

?

 

[Toddppm]

Just had to add this, didn't take this down! My favorite White Oak out in a farmers field, hard to gauge how big it is!

 

[mikey]

Todd, When did you know the tree was hollow?I am no expert on hollow trees.Since you had removed all the top section prior to dropping the trunk I see no problem.If anything maybe put a rope on it to ensure no suprises. Good photos too!

 

[Ryan Willock]

i would say that as far as the notch whent you couldn't have done any better

 

[Toddppm]

I figured it was hollow because it was in bad shape lots of deadwood, didn't know how bad until I put the notch in. We did have a rope on it for sure as there were alot of power lines around. I left the topmost branches on there because there was a big hole about 30 from the top where it looks nice and solid.

 

[geofore]

hollow

This should give you some idea on how much wood can be removed with a plung or boring cut and the tree will still stand. Do you use a brace and drill to test hollow trees before you cut to see how much good wood there is holding the tree?

 

[Kevin]

It looks decent to me.
The notch might be a little on the deep side, should be about 1/3 of the tree.
That's a natural bore cut.

If you're having trouble with getting your notch where you need it make yourself a set of gunning sticks and mark the tree.
You can't miss.

 

[Toddppm]

No I've never drilled a tree to see how bad it is.
That's kind of what I mean Kevin, should you make the notch a little shallow or deeper? How does hinging only on the sides effect the fall? What are gunning sticks?

 

[Kevin]

Different notches for different situations.
Gunning sticks are a set of equal length sticks that can be hinged at one end.
You should make them large enough that you have space to get between the sticks and the tree.
You put the point where the two sticks are hinged in the direction you want to fell the tree.
Where the other ends of the sticks hit the tree 1/3 the distance into the tree, mark the tree.
That's where the corners of your notch will meet.

 

[Kevin]

Sorry I missed the other question ... hinging on the sides only will give you a much weaker hinge but you can still control the thickness of the side hinge.
You won't have to worry about pulling wood from the center of the tree.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I will usualy go as low as possible on a hollow tree, I find Boxelder to be an exception, they can be hollow well below grade.

Thumping with a mallet can help to give an idea as to ho wmuch meat you have relative.

I would say that with the size sick you had a conventional hinge is good. If I have to block the thing down short I will use a deep hinge like you had to throw the CoB into the line of fall more.

 

[NeTree]

I'd have to say the notch looked pretty good. Maybe a little deep, but nobody's perfect. Unless there are issues of extreme lean, or REALLY thin wood on the edges, I notch hollow trees just like any other tree. Since I usually bore through the center of the hinge to about 3 or 4 inches from the ousside anyway, it ends up being the same anyway.

On my website there's a pretty good example of a VERY hollowed out tree. One of the worst I've had to deal with. All went well though. Just watch out for "toe-nailing". Make sure the corners of the hinge are very clean, so you don't add stress to the already limited holding wood.

By the way, I see alot of hardhats in that last pic. Nice to see guys work safe! Good job.


Erik
[email protected]

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The deep facecut can place the hinge farther behind the center of balance, falling easier i think.

The only second guess i would do if it were mine is wondering if i could have stopped facecut sooner thereby having more sound wood to comprise the machine of the hinge at said point; seeing as sound wood for this job is in short supply.

i think that if either decayed side of the hinge was weaker, it could swing the other way or at least pull off course, by the unbalanced pull of one side being free, with decay present this can happen quite easily. i think that topics such as centerpunching (boring), dutchman faces, triangle hinge etc. can all of the suden be worth studying for those that swear they don't need such things, when working with decayed wood. For decay can pre-centerpunch a tree for you without asking, make one side of the face 'nonexistant', change the hinge pattern etc. Understanding these things, and how to use them, allows you to assess their similar patterns of setup and mechanical instruction to the machine of the hinge when working a hinge in decayed wood. Changed hinge pattern from decay is probably most likely of the three i would think.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have had a few that when we took out the wedge we found no sound wood in the hinge area.

One thing I lookfor on known hollows is a seam or other defect. I usualy try to have the hinge behind them so the spar does not shear there when falling.

I once saw a hinge fail because the wood was not sound, good thing we had a lot of tension on the pull rope, it kept coming in the general direction the faller wanted.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I talked with Tim Ard about hollow trees at a show. He advised to consider them no different than a solid. Like someone said, its already bored out. If anything, I'd prefer to have the hinge a little forward and for sure, have a pull over rope.

If there is any suspicion that the tree is hollow the chainsaw can be used to make a bore cut if a drill isn't handy. Decide where you will put your face cut. Plung the tip in with the bar vertical. You're only making a slot so you'll only loose a tiny fraction of strength. You could make a vertical bore in several places.

I'll start a new thread on the little I know about gunning.

Tom

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think JP's comment on the pulling line can get you through a lot of tight spots. i think that over the top and cloved above the backcut is best for highest leverage, compressing down gripping hinge, and bracing/pushing the whole questionable mess into the face most positively.

i think all hinging discussions should account for violation of fibre by saw or decay and the subsequent, fairly equivalent lessons of each.