OK, so maybe I don't always know...

[Whitespider]

Anyone ever drink "extra" beer? The Dr says only 2 a day is ok.

"Extra" beer... that's funny... and no where near what we're talkin' about.
The doctor never said one or two a day was "OK"... he said it was good for the heart.
Yeah, I drink "extra" (if that's how you prefer to look at it) beer... but there ain't no label on the box saying how much to drink. In fact, the manufacturer (brewer) prefers I'd drink as much as my belly will hold. When, and if, I see a label on the box, prescribing the amount to be drank, then you can bring up your point... but until that direction is printed on the box... your point is not only meaningless, its pathetic.
*

 

[Deleted member 83629]

I ran echo red armor in my new echo srm 280 for a year and it was used 4 days per weeks almost 7 hrs per day and I ran it hard mixing it at 50:1 I pulled the muffler and checked everything out and not one speck of carbon and no brown staining on the piston it was also very clean sure surprised me.
the oil is full syn but the price got out of hand for a 1 gallon mix bottle at 3.49 so I use bel-ray h1r,klotz r50.

 

[Thomud]

So do you change the oil in your vehicles every 3000 miles because the label on the oil says you should, or do you do it by the recommended mileage of the auto manufacturere


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zogger]

So do you change the oil in your vehicles every 3000 miles because the label on the oil says you should, or do you do it by the recommended mileage of the auto manufacturere


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha! I have one of those super advanced hi tech model trucks where the oil is self changing! Just add to it once in awhile......

That's my story and stickin' to it....

 

[GVSII]

That's like a non-argument...
What's a long time?? Longer than what?? Where's the yardstick??

I always find the reasoning for "extra" oil in two-cycle mix both baffling and comical at the same time. I mean, the manufacturer develops the product, extensively tests it, and prints the instructions for use right on the container... but the guy opening the container knows more then they do?? Have you ever seen what adding "extra" bleach to the laundry does to your clothes?? Ever witnessed what "extra" fertilizer does to your grass?? Do you put an "extra" quart of oil in your pickup?? How 'bout your medications... do you take what the doctor orders, plus a little "extra"?? It sort'a reminds me of Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor... if a little is good, then more has to be "more better"... ridiculous. I guess my wife should be putting "extra" flour in the bread, and "extra" salt in all her baking. I'm gonna' start putting "extra" air in all the tires, and "extra" chlorine in the pool. Heck, I'm gonna' head out to shop after this post and build a transformer; if 115 volts is good at the outlets, a little "extra" should be better, 150 volts has to make everything run "more better"... correct??

It's flat silliness.
An engine needs a sufficient mount of lubrication, anything over that is no help at all... in fact, it's most likely detrimental. No doubt the manufacturer has already built a little "cushion" in the label instructions anyway. "Extra" oil in two-cycle fuel reduces octane level, reduces the cooling effect (heat sink properties), reduces the volatility/vaporization, reduces the amount of gasoline entering the engine, increases fuel viscosity (it flows slower)... in short, it ain't all that great of an idea. If you believe you need "extra" lubrication you ain't gonna' get it by adding "extra" oil... but switching to a high performance oil, and using it per the label, may gain you some "extra" lubrication, depending.

If ya' wanna' run a 40:1 mix... then buy a 40:1 oil...
If ya' wanna' run a 32:1 mix... then buy a 32:1 oil...
But if ya' buy a 50:1 oil... then mix the damn stuff at 50:1... anything else is flat ridiculous.
*

A non argument, what is a long time?Well how does 4000+ hours sound to you?How many hours
on your chain saw?How many hours on your H/D golf cart that you've been, rebuilding every other year?Another thing to keep in mind regarding most any boat is that they are never coasting. If they are runing and moveing they are under load.When oil injection came along the baymen added oil to their gasoline until the warentee ran out then the oilpump was disabled and the oil lines got crimped.One of my friends didn't even wait for the warentee to run out.The shop hung a new replacement engine(it was replaced under warentee-oil starvation)on the transom,checked it out,gave it a passing grade.He ran the boat over to the pre-mix fuel dock,fueled up,loaded it on his trailer,drove home and off came the pump and lines crimped.That was in '92 I think.Still going in 2014.My 17 year old J/RED is supposed to run at 50:1It's been run at 44:1 except for break in then it it was run at 25:1 for 2 tanks worth of fuel.People are always saying don't run extra oil, it'll harm the enging,it'll degrade performance ,it'll lower the octane of the fuel.Yes ,it will do all of that if you go nuts with it.Now you can ask what is go nuts with it mean.You're a smart guy ,you figure it out.

 

[Dave630]

So are those HD golf carts pretty collectible or did they make a gazillion of them? I know a lot of rich guys play golf and ride Harleys so would not surprise me......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Whitespider]

That's still like a non-argument GVSII,
I have no idea if 4000 hours is a long time or not... but I can tell you it don't sound all that long for a water-cooled marine outboard. Either way, without a yardstick or benchmark of some sort, the 4000 means nothing.
OK, so they lasted a long time... but how much longer then engines running straight 50:1 ( or whatever)?? How many of those guys ran two engines side-by-side, one with "extra" oil and one without?? What was the average gain of engine life in hours over those multiple tests??

All you're saying is the guys you knew ran "extra" oil and their engines lasted a long time. So I'll ask again...
Longer than what?? Where's the yardstick??
The Evinrude outboard on our fishing boat at the lake home was built in the '40's... it's the oldest running outboard on the lake... it's never been run with "extra" oil... ever. Heck, I'm not so sure it don't have the original spark plugs in it.

You disagreed with me on the basis of what a bunch of your commercial fisherman friends did. Just because they did don't make it best... without the yardstick it's just what they did, and nothing more than that. I never claimed using "extra" oil would shorten an engines lifespan... but you're trying to claim it lengthens it based on what some other guys did.
So tell me... how much longer did those engines last, and how many engines were compared??

By-the-way, the oil manufacturers have run those test... many, many times... and based on the results of those tests, they print the instructions for use on the label. Like I said before, I always find the reasoning for "extra" oil in two-cycle mix both baffling and comical at the same time... it's the Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor mentality. I don't know of a single guy who runs "extra" oil that can prove they gain anything from doing so... usually it's something like... "I've always run extra oil in my saw, and I've never had any problems" (or maybe it's like, they last a long time ).
How comical is that?? So friggin' what?? I've never run extra oil in my saw, and I've never had any problems either, and my saw is over twenty years old... is that a long time??
*

 

[Dave630]

That's still like a non-argument GVSII,
I have no idea if 4000 hours is a long time or not... but I can tell you it don't sound all that long for a water-cooled marine outboard. Either way, without a yardstick or benchmark of some sort, the 4000 means nothing.
OK, so they lasted a long time... but how much longer then engines running straight 50:1 ( or whatever)?? How many of those guys ran two engines side-by-side, one with "extra" oil and one without?? What was the average gain of engine life in hours over those multiple tests??

All you're saying is the guys you knew ran "extra" oil and their engines lasted a long time. So I'll ask again...
Longer than what?? Where's the yardstick??
The Evinrude outboard on our fishing boat at the lake home was built in the '40's... it's the oldest running outboard on the lake... it's never been run with "extra" oil... ever. Heck, I'm not so sure it don't have the original spark plugs in it.

You disagreed with me on the basis of what a bunch of your commercial fisherman friends did. Just because they did don't make it best... without the yardstick it's just what they did, and nothing more than that. I never claimed using "extra" oil would shorten an engines lifespan... but you're trying to claim it lengthens it based on what some other guys did.
So tell me... how much longer did those engines last, and how many engines were compared??

By-the-way, the oil manufacturers have run those test... many, many times... and based on the results of those tests, they print the instructions for use on the label. Like I said before, I always find the reasoning for "extra" oil in two-cycle mix both baffling and comical at the same time... it's the Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor mentality. I don't know of a single guy who runs "extra" oil that can prove they gain anything from doing so... usually it's something like... "I've always run extra oil in my saw, and I've never had any problems" (or maybe it's like, they last a long time ).
How comical is that?? So friggin' what?? I've never run extra oil in my saw, and I've never had any problems either, and my saw is over twenty years old... is that a long time??
*

Case in point: my 630 was made in 1985, always run on 50:1 conventional with no issues. But you're right, without a side by side comparison its all just heuristics and opinions not science.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zogger]

Case in point: my 630 was made in 1985, always run on 50:1 conventional with no issues. But you're right, without a side by side comparison its all just heuristics and opinions not science.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The guys who build performance two stroke whatevers have the science. It is a google search away.

 

[Dave630]

The guys who build performance two stroke whatevers have the science. It is a google search away.

You are right, I am in the camp that believes synthetic is probably better overall and that you should mix it at the mfr recommended blend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KenJax Tree]

Mfr says 50:1 but what about this?

 

[zogger]

Mfr says 50:1 but what about this?

You get what the government mandates the saw makers to say, if they want to sell saws, then you get what the oil makers say, then you get what the enthusiasts who really tweak stuff and test it say.

Like previously mentioned, the top saw builders and tweakers on this site say 32:1, synthetic oil. I trust that. They work on and run *so many* different brands/makes/models and have to stand behind their work, moreso even over the big companies, where half the time their local dealers will just say "straight gassed" and you gots no warranty. Happens to too many people to ignore that, it just happens today.

The saw manufacturers have to meet emissions, the oil guys just need to sell oil. The builders have to sell their work and have it really work well, up to highly demanding day in and day out pro use, or racing.

Me, I will go with what the guys who work on the saws all the time say. My last authority figure to trust is whatever the EPA tells the saw manufacturers.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I mix everything at 32:1

 

[Dave630]

You get what the government mandates the saw makers to say, if they want to sell saws, then you get what the oil makers say, then you get what the enthusiasts who really tweak stuff and test it say.

Like previously mentioned, the top saw builders and tweakers on this site say 32:1, synthetic oil. I trust that. They work on and run *so many* different brands/makes/models and have to stand behind their work, moreso even over the big companies, where half the time their local dealers will just say "straight gassed" and you gots no warranty. Happens to too many people to ignore that, it just happens today.

The saw manufacturers have to meet emissions, the oil guys just need to sell oil. The builders have to sell their work and have it really work well, up to highly demanding day in and day out pro use, or racing.

Me, I will go with what the guys who work on the saws all the time say. My last authority figure to trust is whatever the EPA tells the saw manufacturers.

Ok sounds like you really know your stuff.... That said, I use my saw for quite a bit of clearing.... Lots of start and stop. Is it better to let it idle in between cuts or shut it off and restart often?? My saw is old but starts easily hot or cold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zogger]

Ok sounds like you really know your stuff.... That said, I use my saw for quite a bit of clearing.... Lots of start and stop. Is it better to let it idle in between cuts or shut it off and restart often?? My saw is old but starts easily hot or cold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Judgement call on how long this idling session is. How robust is the starting mechanism on the particular saw. How pricey are reeplacement parts. how much does it suck or not suck to restart it. Etc.

I don't think there is any hard or fast rule there. I know for me, longer than an anticipated minute or so (moving the log, rolling the block, drag some brush out of the way, etc.), I usually shut it off.

Also on how hot and dry it is and what the ground is like. I don't like sitting a running saw on hot dead dry leaves or grass or weeds. Now I haven't started a fire..and would like to keep it that way.

As for me knowing my stuff, I know enough to defer to guys much more experienced than me..that's about it. That's why I said the saw builders here, the pros, say 32:1 synthetic..I am deferring to the smart guys. I have cut for many many years, started in 70, but not a lot, just some. The pro loggers and firewood guys here I am sure cut more in a year than I have in my lifetime.

Just a quick study. Learned to fell better since joining this site, split better, certainly repair saws better, etc.

 

[GVSII]

That's still like a non-argument GVSII,
I have no idea if 4000 hours is a long time or not... but I can tell you it don't sound all that long for a water-cooled marine outboard. Either way, without a yardstick or benchmark of some sort, the 4000 means nothing.
OK, so they lasted a long time... but how much longer then engines running straight 50:1 ( or whatever)?? How many of those guys ran two engines side-by-side, one with "extra" oil and one without?? What was the average gain of engine life in hours over those multiple tests??

All you're saying is the guys you knew ran "extra" oil and their engines lasted a long time. So I'll ask again...
Longer than what?? Where's the yardstick??
The Evinrude outboard on our fishing boat at the lake home was built in the '40's... it's the oldest running outboard on the lake... it's never been run with "extra" oil... ever. Heck, I'm not so sure it don't have the original spark plugs in it.

You disagreed with me on the basis of what a bunch of your commercial fisherman friends did. Just because they did don't make it best... without the yardstick it's just what they did, and nothing more than that. I never claimed using "extra" oil would shorten an engines lifespan... but you're trying to claim it lengthens it based on what some other guys did.
So tell me... how much longer did those engines last, and how many engines were compared??

By-the-way, the oil manufacturers have run those test... many, many times... and based on the results of those tests, they print the instructions for use on the label. Like I said before, I always find the reasoning for "extra" oil in two-cycle mix both baffling and comical at the same time... it's the Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor mentality. I don't know of a single guy who runs "extra" oil that can prove they gain anything from doing so... usually it's something like... "I've always run extra oil in my saw, and I've never had any problems" (or maybe it's like, they last a long time ).
How comical is that?? So friggin' what?? I've never run extra oil in my saw, and I've never had any problems either, and my saw is over twenty years old... is that a long time??
*

If you don't know that 4000 hours is a "LONG" time for a 2 stroke engine to last you are beyond clueless! Any 2 stroke,air cooled or liquid cooled. Just to give you some idea of how long 4000 hours are-most air cooled aircraft recip. engines in general avaition are sent in for overhaul at 2500 hrs.I'd wager that the Evenrude has nowhere near 4000 hours on it if it still has ,as you say,the original plug in it.
Bottom line:you can over oil or under oil-makes, no difference to me.I'll continue to run a little rich and you can continue to re-ring the golf cart every couple of years.

 

[firebrick43]

Ha! I have one of those super advanced hi tech model trucks where the oil is self changing! Just add to it once in awhile......

That's my story and stickin' to it....

Own a Detroit Zogger??

 

[Whitespider]

If you don't know that 4000 hours is a "LONG" time for a 2 stroke engine... air cooled or liquid cooled.
Bottom line:you can over oil or under oil-makes, no difference to me.I'll continue to run a little rich and you can continue to re-ring the golf cart every couple of years.

You keep saying the same thing without saying anything...
I'll ask one more time...
Exactly how many engines running without "extra" oil failed to last as long as the engines running with "extra' oil??

And by-the-way... the golf cart fails because that old Kohler two-stroke is being run at twice the intended RPM (no governor) and 10 times the intended run time.
It ain't being used to go from the tee to the green at 2500 RPM's...

 

[CTYank]

Judgement call on how long this idling session is. How robust is the starting mechanism on the particular saw. How pricey are reeplacement parts. how much does it suck or not suck to restart it. Etc.

I don't think there is any hard or fast rule there. I know for me, longer than an anticipated minute or so (moving the log, rolling the block, drag some brush out of the way, etc.), I usually shut it off.

Also on how hot and dry it is and what the ground is like. I don't like sitting a running saw on hot dead dry leaves or grass or weeds. Now I haven't started a fire..and would like to keep it that way.

As for me knowing my stuff, I know enough to defer to guys much more experienced than me..that's about it. That's why I said the saw builders here, the pros, say 32:1 synthetic..I am deferring to the smart guys. I have cut for many many years, started in 70, but not a lot, just some. The pro loggers and firewood guys here I am sure cut more in a year than I have in my lifetime.

Just a quick study. Learned to fell better since joining this site, split better, certainly repair saws better, etc.

There definitely is a difference between tweaked, much-higher-compression engines and stock. I'd suggest that the tweakers make their recommendations for the non-stock engines, not for all. A few select stodk engines, yes.

It makes sense to let an engine cool a few seconds at idle/fast idle if it's been run really hot & hard. After a few cuts or between full-bar-length ones.

 

[Dave630]

Judgement call on how long this idling session is. How robust is the starting mechanism on the particular saw. How pricey are reeplacement parts. how much does it suck or not suck to restart it. Etc.

I don't think there is any hard or fast rule there. I know for me, longer than an anticipated minute or so (moving the log, rolling the block, drag some brush out of the way, etc.), I usually shut it off.

Also on how hot and dry it is and what the ground is like. I don't like sitting a running saw on hot dead dry leaves or grass or weeds. Now I haven't started a fire..and would like to keep it that way.

As for me knowing my stuff, I know enough to defer to guys much more experienced than me..that's about it. That's why I said the saw builders here, the pros, say 32:1 synthetic..I am deferring to the smart guys. I have cut for many many years, started in 70, but not a lot, just some. The pro loggers and firewood guys here I am sure cut more in a year than I have in my lifetime.

Just a quick study. Learned to fell better since joining this site, split better, certainly repair saws better, etc.

Thanks for the info! And it starts on the 1st pull when warm, pops on the 1st pull when cold, as long as you're feeling strong, the West Coast is a hi compression saw stock.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk