OK, so maybe I don't always know...

[zogger]

Own a Detroit Zogger??

Ya..the 6.2 needs a new CDR...at least it burns and doesn't drip all over heheheheh..walmart rotella on sale FTW!!..and the ratsun industrial 2.2 just kinda sorta leaks a little...more hehehehe

 

[GVSII]

You keep saying the same thing without saying anything...
I'll ask one more time...
Exactly how many engines running without "extra" oil failed to last as long as the engines running with "extra' oil??

And by-the-way... the golf cart fails because that old Kohler two-stroke is being run at twice the intended RPM (no governor) and 10 times the intended run time.
It ain't being used to go from the tee to the green at 2500 RPM's...

Well since all the guys were running a little oil rich I don't have any idea "exactly" how many failed early."Exactly" how many hours on the little Evenrude?And if memory serves those '40s outboards ran at 16:1.(thats fuel to oil ratio-not deisel compression ratio)

 

[Whitespider]

And if memory serves those '40s outboards ran at 16:1.(thats fuel to oil ratio-not deisel compression ratio)

That old Evinrude has been running 50:1 since the late 80's I believe, maybe early 90's... same 50:1 that's run in everything else at the lake.
Up at the lake it's sold pre-mixed right at the pump, and it gets used in everything from the outboards and snowmobile to the weed-whip and chainsaw... no matter the vintage. Of course, here at home we have to mix our own... 50:1 in everything (per oil container label instructions, not engine manual instructions). It's a mistake to follow engine manual instructions, because that normally refers to a specific oil. For example, the old '74 Harley golf cart manual calls for 80:1 using 'Harley Davidson Golf Car Two-Cycle Oil' (which is no longer available), or plain 30w non-detergent at 16:1, or other two-cycle oil meeting certain specs (which is any oil now-a-days) mixed at oil manufacturer's recommendation... I use a 50:1 oil in everything, no matter the vintage, mixed at 50:1. Truth be told, I mix a little lighter than 50:1 most of the time. For example, I dump the required amount of oil in a 5 gallon gas can, drive to the pump and fill it up. If 5.1 or 5.2 gallons fit in the can, so be it... I don't sweat it. I use Stihl (orange bottle) for the saw, weed-whip, blower, snow thrower, and whatnot. I use the little bottles per-measured for 2½ gallons... but I normally end up with about 2.6 gallons of gas when I fill the can. Been doing it that way since the mid-'80's, first with 40:1, then Stihl switched to 50:1 in the mid-'90's... no problems with anything, still using the same equipment.

Oh... the manual for my Stihl saw says 40:1 using Stihl oil. The problem is, Stihl ain't supplied a 40:1 two-cycle oil since the mid-'90's, they switched to a 50:1 oil. Another example of why you shouldn't follow the engine manual unless the exact oil referenced is being used... the label on the Stihl 50:1 oil container says it's for use in all Stihl equipment (mixed at 50:1, no matter what the equipment vintage or owners manual says). It ain't been about engine requirements for near 100 years, it's about the oil design... but a lot of people still don't understand that.

 

[CTYank]

That old Evinrude has been running 50:1 since the late 80's I believe, maybe early 90's... same 50:1 that's run in everything else at the lake.
Up at the lake it's sold pre-mixed right at the pump, and it gets used in everything from the outboards and snowmobile to the weed-whip and chainsaw... no matter the vintage. Of course, here at home we have to mix our own... 50:1 in everything (per oil container label instructions, not engine manual instructions). It's a mistake to follow engine manual instructions, because that normally refers to a specific oil. For example, the old '74 Harley golf cart manual calls for 80:1 using 'Harley Davidson Golf Car Two-Cycle Oil' (which is no longer available), or plain 30w non-detergent at 16:1, or other two-cycle oil meeting certain specs (which is any oil now-a-days) mixed at oil manufacturer's recommendation... I use a 50:1 oil in everything, no matter the vintage, mixed at 50:1. Truth be told, I mix a little lighter than 50:1 most of the time. For example, I dump the required amount of oil in a 5 gallon gas can, drive to the pump and fill it up. If 5.1 or 5.2 gallons fit in the can, so be it... I don't sweat it. I use Stihl (orange bottle) for the saw, weed-whip, blower, snow thrower, and whatnot. I use the little bottles per-measured for 2½ gallons... but I normally end up with about 2.6 gallons of gas when I fill the can. Been doing it that way since the mid-'80's, first with 40:1, then Stihl switched to 50:1 in the mid-'90's... no problems with anything, still using the same equipment.

Oh... the manual for my Stihl saw says 40:1 using Stihl oil. The problem is, Stihl ain't supplied a 40:1 two-cycle oil since the mid-'90's, they switched to a 50:1 oil. Another example of why you shouldn't follow the engine manual unless the exact oil referenced is being used... the label on the Stihl 50:1 oil container says it's for use in all Stihl equipment (mixed at 50:1, no matter what the equipment vintage or owners manual says). It ain't been about engine requirements for near 100 years, it's about the oil design... but a lot of people still don't understand that.

Aha! There's you problem. Stihl doesn't fuss about meeting current 2-stroke oil specs much. Not like other mere mfgs.
Current best oil specs are JASO FD and ISO-L-EGD. Waiblingen prolly not interested. Per mfgs., my RedMax and Dolmar require oil that meets JASO FC AND ISO-L-EGD. And, they all get it, either Woodland Pro synthetic or Dolmar synthetic. Much cheaper than engines.

So you're partly wrong, in this regard engine requirements matter very much. Stihl can make whatever claims they wish, but until they can meet current specs, sorry, can't use it. Not in my 2-strokes anyhow.

 

[Whitespider]

Aha! There's you problem.

What problem?? I'm not having any problem.
And I don't believe it's fair to say "Stihl doesn't fuss about meeting current 2-stroke oil specs much"... HP Super (black bottle, synthetic/dino blend) is JASO FD/ISO L-EGD certified.
You do realize that the only significant difference between FB/EGB, FC/EGC, and FD/EGD is the emissions? Supposedly, on a scale of 0-100, FB/EGB is less than 5 points lower in lubricity than the other two (in the engines, and with the oils tested). Stihl claims their "HP Ultra" (JASO FB) full synthetic is a better oil than the "HP Super" (JASO FD) blend in both lubrication and engine cleaning, yet the "Ultra" is only JASO FB certified (same as orange bottle HP)... why is that?? Well, I have no way of knowing for sure... but my guess is Stihl couldn't care any less about paying the Japanese to "re-certify" every time they come up with a new spec. Anything with a FB/EGB certification is light-years ahead of anything we had a couple decades ago... and I couldn't give any less of a crap about emissions or biodegradability.

http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.pdf

I wouldn't get too hung-up on oil certifications until you understand exactly what they are, and what they actually mean... especially the actual differences between individual certifications. The only significant difference between FB/EGB and FC/EGC is the visible smoke (in the engines tested)... and heck, that will change from engine-to-engine (yeah, exhaust restricted/cat muffler EPA engines tend to dislike smoke). The difference between FC/EGC and FD/EGD is nothing more than the level of detergency... the merits of which is questionable (besides, it ain't needed if the engine is tuned properly). Lubricity and initial torque requirements are identical for FB/EGB, FC/EGC, and FD/EGD. Personally I wouldn't give a lead penny for what FC/EGC or FD/EGD gives me over FB/EGB. But maybe the new idiot-proof engines (without chokes or carb adjustment screws ) need idiot-proof oil
*

 

[Whitespider]

OH... if you looked at that link, did you notice??
The "orange" bottle dino oil (certified JASO FB) is the oil Stihl recommends for "professional" chain saws.

An FB/EGB certification was the highest (best quality) at one time. Just because the oil hasn't re-certified since that time doesn't mean it can't meet FC/EGC or FD/EGD requirements... and an FB/EGB certified oil already meets the FC/EGC and FD/EGD lubricity and initial torque requirements. What's the point of spending money on re-certifying? Just so everyone knows the oil has a bunch of (unnecessary) soap in it?? Flat ridiculous ‼ Where will the BS end anyway?? We've pretty much reached the pinnacle of "slipperiness" with engine oil (2T or 4T), any "slipperier" and the engines won't run (without some new alien technology)... new oil "certifications" became nothing but environmental fluff after about the year 1999.
*
*

 

[CTYank]

What problem?? I'm not having any problem.
And I don't believe it's fair to say "Stihl doesn't fuss about meeting current 2-stroke oil specs much"... HP Super (black bottle, synthetic/dino blend) is JASO FD/ISO L-EGD certified.
You do realize that the only significant difference between FB/EGB, FC/EGC, and FD/EGD is the emissions? Supposedly, on a scale of 0-100, FB/EGB is less than 5 points lower in lubricity than the other two (in the engines, and with the oils tested). Stihl claims their "HP Ultra" (JASO FB) full synthetic is a better oil than the "HP Super" (JASO FD) blend in both lubrication and engine cleaning, yet the "Ultra" is only JASO FB certified (same as orange bottle HP)... why is that?? Well, I have no way of knowing for sure... but my guess is Stihl couldn't care any less about paying the Japanese to "re-certify" every time they come up with a new spec. Anything with a FB/EGB certification is light-years ahead of anything we had a couple decades ago... and I couldn't give any less of a crap about emissions or biodegradability.

http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.pdf

I wouldn't get too hung-up on oil certifications until you understand exactly what they are, and what they actually mean... especially the actual differences between individual certifications. The only significant difference between FB/EGB and FC/EGC is the visible smoke (in the engines tested)... and heck, that will change from engine-to-engine (yeah, exhaust restricted/cat muffler EPA engines tend to dislike smoke). The difference between FC/EGC and FD/EGD is nothing more than the level of detergency... the merits of which is questionable (besides, it ain't needed if the engine is tuned properly). Lubricity and initial torque requirements are identical for FB/EGB, FC/EGC, and FD/EGD. Personally I wouldn't give a lead penny for what FC/EGC or FD/EGD gives me over FB/EGB. But maybe the new idiot-proof engines (without chokes or carb adjustment screws ) need idiot-proof oil
*

I hope you realize that there's more to these things than you allege. Both the oil specs and Stihl's approach to them.
Sure, the Model A was a huge improvement over the Baker Electric, but sometimes we've got to move on.

 

[Whitespider]

I hope you realize that there's more to these things than you allege.

Really??
So enlighten me... exactly what "more to these things than (I) allege" is there??
I've researched the specifications... Have you??
I've read the results of the testing... Have you??
I know the history of (Japanese) JASO and (European) ISO-L oil specifications... Do you??
Heck man, I worked in a related industry for over 20 years... it's been nothing but environmental BS since 1999.
There was a time when "new and improved" meant something other than special-interest, environmental bull$h!t... but now the gullibility of the public has gone way of the charts. Pour all the soap you want in your engines... what-the-hell do I care?? Heck, ya' might just as well mix the stuff with ethanol while you're at it... after all, that's "new and improved" also.

JASO FA
Original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
JASO FB
Increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
JASO FC
Lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
JASO FD
Same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.

ISO-L-EGB
Same requirements as JASO FB + test for piston cleanliness.
ISO-L-EGC
Same requirements as JASO FC + test for piston cleanliness.
ISO-L-EGD
Same requirements as JASO FD + test for piston cleanliness + detergent effect.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

quaker state 2t is Fa/fb as it said on the bottle and so is havoline 2t and there really isn't much smoke and deposits with those.
and they smell like old fashion 2t oil.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

That old Evinrude has been running 50:1 since the late 80's I believe, maybe early 90's... same 50:1 that's run in everything else at the lake.
Up at the lake it's sold pre-mixed right at the pump, and it gets used in everything from the outboards and snowmobile to the weed-whip and chainsaw... no matter the vintage. Of course, here at home we have to mix our own... 50:1 in everything (per oil container label instructions, not engine manual instructions). It's a mistake to follow engine manual instructions, because that normally refers to a specific oil. For example, the old '74 Harley golf cart manual calls for 80:1 using 'Harley Davidson Golf Car Two-Cycle Oil' (which is no longer available), or plain 30w non-detergent at 16:1, or other two-cycle oil meeting certain specs (which is any oil now-a-days) mixed at oil manufacturer's recommendation... I use a 50:1 oil in everything, no matter the vintage, mixed at 50:1. Truth be told, I mix a little lighter than 50:1 most of the time. For example, I dump the required amount of oil in a 5 gallon gas can, drive to the pump and fill it up. If 5.1 or 5.2 gallons fit in the can, so be it... I don't sweat it. I use Stihl (orange bottle) for the saw, weed-whip, blower, snow thrower, and whatnot. I use the little bottles per-measured for 2½ gallons... but I normally end up with about 2.6 gallons of gas when I fill the can. Been doing it that way since the mid-'80's, first with 40:1, then Stihl switched to 50:1 in the mid-'90's... no problems with anything, still using the same equipment.

Oh... the manual for my Stihl saw says 40:1 using Stihl oil. The problem is, Stihl ain't supplied a 40:1 two-cycle oil since the mid-'90's, they switched to a 50:1 oil. Another example of why you shouldn't follow the engine manual unless the exact oil referenced is being used... the label on the Stihl 50:1 oil container says it's for use in all Stihl equipment (mixed at 50:1, no matter what the equipment vintage or owners manual says). It ain't been about engine requirements for near 100 years, it's about the oil design... but a lot of people still don't understand that.

The 2.5 gallon mix of stihl orange bottle 6.4 oz mix at 2 gallons for 40:1 ,2.5 for 50:1

 

[Whitespider]

The 2.5 gallon mix of stihl orange bottle 6.4 oz mix at 2 gallons for 40:1 ,2.5 for 50:1

Yeah, but the instructions on the oil container say nothing about 40:1... or even 50:1 for that matter (might ay 50:1 on the front label, don't remember).
The instructions simply say to mix the entire contents with 2½ gallons of fresh gasoline, using a minimum octane rating of 89, for use in all Stihl products.
Just sayin'.

You'll find this info on the Stihl website... http://www.stihlusa.com/information/how-to-guides/mixing-oil-and-gasoline/

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[Mike from Maine]

Mix at 50:1

The gov't is always right.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

yeah it does but you can mix stihl oil at any ratio.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

hate is a strong word how about dislike?

 

[Whitespider]

yeah it does but you can mix stihl oil at any ratio.

Where??
I ain't seen that...
*

 

[Deleted member 83629]

im not going any further into this discussion.

 

[zogger]

I'll stir the pot more! I know at least husky says to run 25:1 for milling in australia, have seen those guys comment on that several times now. Don't know what stihl recommends for milling.

Oh, all the chinese two stroke stuff you see, all of it I have seen advertised is 25:1.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'll stir the pot more! I know at least husky says to run 25:1 for milling in australia, have seen those guys comment on that several times now. Don't know what stihl recommends for milling.

Oh, all the chinese two stroke stuff you see, all of it I have seen advertised is 25:1.

That's cuz they ain't worryin 'bout givin the Northern Great Horned Zte Zte Flys lung cancer...course, they prolly ain't too worried 'bout their product longevity either...so, with all that said, what was my point!?

 

[Whitespider]

Just use this stuff...
L@@K AT THOSE CERTIFICATIONS ‼
No doubt it's the best you can get... I'm switchin' ‼

 

[Deleted member 83629]

that can be had from my local farmers co-op for 23.99 per gallon but it is special order.
the 1 gallon mix bottles are on the shelf but are 2.99 per bottle go fiqure.