Philbert's Chain Salvage Challenge

[Red Amor]

DIESEL SOAK TURNS EVERY THING BLACK BUT RINCES OFF NICE , AND SOAKS RIGHT IN TO FREE UP ANY THING JAMMED ;o))
I admit Ive never tried it on chain but not doubt will at some stage , never needed to really sorry it looks as Im yelling , just didn't notice at first dint feel like retyping hah:O))

 

[Philbert]

DIESEL SOAK TURNS EVERY THING BLACK BUT RINCES OFF NICE , AND SOAKS RIGHT IN TO FREE UP ANY THING JAMMED

I had limited success with soaking in the ATF/acetone mix (discussion starts around page 3 and runs through page 6). Plus diesel fuel stinks - can't use it in my basement.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Challenge Set #10 - Unhappy Surprise

I have not used my router for several years. Apparently, when we had a plumbing leak a few years ago on the second floor, some of the water followed a pipe down to the basement, and into my router bit case. Several of the bits, bearings, screws, etc were caked in rust, and had apparently been like this for a while. Hard to photograph then accurately, but yes, they looked that ugly. Over $100 in bits ruined?



Threw some of the screws and bearings into the recycling can. I can't sharpen carbide bits, but figured that I should at least try some of the chain rust removal methods on these bits. Cleaned in a degreaser, brushed off the loose rust under running water. The carbide surprisingly looks OK on most bits, but some of the backing steel is pretty nasty. A new bit, still covered in that rubbery stuff was also OK.

Dropped 'em into a plastic jar with some used EvapoRust. We will see.

Preliminary Lessons?:
- Be careful where you store stuff. Like Sesame Street teaches: look, up, down, over, under, around, between . . . .
- Those plastic containers that are supposed to keep water out, hold water sometimes!
- High speed steel has no sense of humor when it comes to rust . . .

 

[Wagnerwerks]

You need an ultrasonic cleaner.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

oregon vanguard chain give it the aerial burial philbert it isn't worth the hassle ( middle chain )
on chain group 9 post 160

 

[Philbert]

You need an ultrasonic cleaner.

Have one. Might be one of the things I try.

Philbert

 

[Wagnerwerks]

I do my old chains in mine and it knocks the rust right off.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I do my old chains in mine and it knocks the rust right off.

What do you use as a solvent/solution?

 

[Wagnerwerks]

I use water and 2 cups of LAs Totally Awesome from the dollar store. Best degreaser I've used. I do have a pretty peppy cleaner.

 

[Philbert]

I use water and 2 cups of LAs Totally Awesome from the dollar store. Best degreaser I've used.

LA's Totally Awesome cleaner works well to remove dried on grass from string trimmers, etc. Surprised how hard that stuff can be to remove from plastic. The trimmer heads can be hard to thread and wind when they get gunked up, so it helps to clean those periodically, aside from any aesthetic reasons.

Philbert

 

[Wagnerwerks]

Good tip!

 

[Philbert]

Challenge Set #10 - (continued)

I started with used EvapoRust, because the stuff is expensive, and they tell you to use it until it is 'used up'. A day made some difference. Scrubbed some with ScotchBrite, then rinsed, and placed them in some new WD-40 Rust Soak. Checked on them after a day. Scrubbed some more. Left them in another day. Rinse and repeat. . . .


I tried to arrange the bits the same as in the original photo, with the worst side up. Surprisingly (?) the rust had little effect on the carbide cutting tips, or on the one, solid carbide bit. There was some damage and pitting on the high speed steel (HSS) cutters, and on the shafts/bodies of the bits.

The hardware store bits (Vermont American, etc.) appeared to be affected more than the more expensive, commercial bits (Bosch, etc.), although, this was not a controlled experiment, and the bits might have been exposed differently

The WD-40 Rust Soak started out completely clear, unlike the amber EvapoRust, but also turned black eventually. It also turned the non-carbide part of the bits dark - something I had not expected. I have a call in to WD-40 on this. Maybe the carbide affected the reaction? *See note in later post*

Winner? Tie. Philbert saved some expensive bits; rust took some of the less expensive ones

Lessons?
- Different metals (chain steel, HSS, carbide, etc.) are affected differently by rust, and by rust removal methods.

- WD-40 Rust Soak appears to be a competitive product with EvapoRust, at least at a Coke/Pepsi level.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

hey phil, wish you had done one with electrolysis. just sayin; the poor man's method. i just cleaned up a found, rusted wrench. not new looking but, it wasn't new either. pix later

 

[Philbert]

hey phil, wish you had done one with electrolysis. just sayin;

It's good to have choices, different methods, and a variety of tools in the tool box for different situations.

I thought briefly about electrolysis (and even have some new graphite electrodes to try!). But, frankly, I was so depressed when I found those bits that I wanted a simple answer to: "any chance these can be saved?" I thought that the EvapoRust/WD-40 Rust Soak products would not discolor the bits, and would at least be a good starting point. They worked slow, especially in the deep pits. Might have followed up with other methods if I did not eventually get the results pictured.

I was also not sure what electrolysis would do to the carbide, or to the brazed joints. It would have taken a little creativity to hook up each of those bits, especially without a lot of clean metal visible. And I was not in a mood to spend a lot of time experimenting right then (I was in the middle of a woodworking project where I needed to use the router!).

Look forward to seeing that wrench.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Disappointing Response from WD-40

A few posts back I noted how WD-40 Rust Soak removed rust from some router bits, but turned the remaining metal dark. This was disappointing, as the EvapoRust-type products are not supposed to do this? Is took several contacts with WD-40 to even get an answer, which they stated was 'over exposure'. They did not elaborate on what this meant and have not responded to my follow up. They told me that the coating would 'wear off' or could be 'sanded off'.

Here's the problem. The product did not remove the rust right away. As with EvapoRust, it worked pretty good on the surface stuff, but not on the deep pits. I removed the bits every few hours, scrubbed off any loosened rust I could with a ScotchBrite pad, picked at pits with a sharp probe, rinsed, and placed in back in solution. The bits turned black before the rust was gone. 'Over exposure'?

So, this stuff is not magic. It may still stain your object, depending upon the type of metal, just as the various acids I have tried (acetic, oxalic, citric) if left in long enough. Some metals do not seem to stain even after extended exposures - I don't know if this is due to carbon content or some other metallurgical difference. I can't predict in advance. although the older chains I have de-rusted (Oregon, STIHL, McCulloch, etc.) seem to stain more readily than the newer Oregon and STIHL chains I have cleaned.

Use these chemicals for the least amount of time that you can, and keep the concentrations of the acids low, to reduce the risk of staining. If cost is a factor, and staining is not, the acids are a less expensive way to go.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Twists and Bends - Challenge Chain #11

Thankfully, something other than rust!!!



Some things are easy to see. This Oregon Vanguard type chain looks like it might have been filed once. But there was clear damage to one cutter, and to the tie strap and to the tops of the drive links right behind it. Pretty easy fix options: shorten the loop; or, spin in a few new links; or, grind off the broken cutter and use it as 'occasional skip chain'; etc. Only real concern would be if the damaged tie strap and drive links hang up going around sprockets.



Harder to see (and photograph!) is a section of bent and twisted links on the opposite side of the loop. Since chain is kinda slinky, even bent or twisted links will flow across your fingers when the chain is not mounted. Try running it through a bar groove and it's a different story. I assume that the story on this loop had to do with it getting pinched, and maybe someone trying to twist and pull the guide bar out? Maybe the broken cutter got slammed into something when the chain got pinched? I don't know for sure.

I like to flag hard to see defects with twist ties so that I don't have to discover them again.

If one or two drive links, or tie straps, or cutters get bent, you can replace those, just like the broken cutter above. You can try to straighten a bent link. But sometimes, even a small, hard to see bend can hang up a chain, or make it hard to spin a link into a loop.

Since this is fairly new chain, and since Vanguard is a fairly common chain, it makes sense to use this as a donor chain, or to salvage the good sections to lengthen a similar loop.

WINNER? Philbert! Got 60 +/- links of next-to-new donor chain.

LESSONS?
- Count the good links, not just the bad ones.
- Newer chains make good donor chains, because you have to grind down the links to match: harder to do with older chains.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Twists and Bends - Challenge Chain #11

Thankfully, something other than rust!!!

View attachment 362845

Some things are easy to see. This Oregon Vanguard type chain looks like it might have been filed once. But there was clear damage to one cutter, and to the tie strap and to the tops of the drive links right behind it. Pretty easy fix options: shorten the loop; or, spin in a few new links; or, grind off the broken cutter and use it as 'occasional skip chain'; etc. Only real concern would be if the damaged tie strap and drive links hang up going around sprockets.

View attachment 362846

Harder to see (and photograph!) is a section of bent and twisted links on the opposite side of the loop. Since chain is kinda slinky, even bent or twisted links will flow across your fingers when the chain is not mounted. Try running it through a bar groove and it's a different story. I assume that the story on this loop had to do with it getting pinched, and maybe someone trying to twist and pull the guide bar out? Maybe the broken cutter got slammed into something when the chain got pinched? I don't know for sure.

I like to flag hard to see defects with twist ties so that I don't have to discover them again.

Good idea. I'll remember that.

As for the damage, and the distinctly odd and different nature at the two sections, I'm putting my money on a wedge...either before a pinch where the tooth is broken by unintentional contact, or after a pinch in an attempt to free the bar and chain at the bent section, or both.

Either way, I'd hate to see the bar!

Good stuff as usual, Philbert.

BTW, how's the graphite electrode approach working out?

 

[Philbert]

BTW, how's the graphite electrode approach working out?

On a back burner for now . . .

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Challenge Chain #12

Things have been slow re: Challenge Chain submissions. This one was not so much a 'challenge', as a basic exercise in chain cleaning and restoration. Dried on gunk that is pretty common on many chains - I think that it is a combination of bar oil and wood dust.



A shampoo in 'Super Clean' removed most of the gunk, and revealed some light, surface rust. A brushing with a stainless steel scratch brush left me with this (still wet):



WINNER? Philbert! A 70 link loop of nice Oregon chain (3/8, .050, semi-chisel) with a lot of life left in the cutters. No signs of damage, abuse, or excessive wear. The links move freely after cleaning. Some slight, additional wear on the heels of the cutters and tie straps which may be the result of running a dull chain (some cutters almost have a negative hook profile):



Dried in the oven; just needs to be sharpened and re-lubed.

LESSONS? Not much new with this chain: when you find systems/methods/tools that work for you, use them until you find something better.

Philbert

 

[7sleeper]

Hey Philbert,

next time try out a new technique and you will be finished in a few moments. Use a torch and burn it hot for a few seconds and then dump the chain into some oil. Finished. The chain will move nice a easily again and no need for any cleaning whatsoever. I use recycled engine oil for this.

7