PILTZ: Master HOT SAW builder (...not)

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And there is probably a reason the manufacturers don't use lo pro on longer bars.
Tensile strength.

Oregon 91 series chain (3/8 low profile) is rated for use on saws up to 2.5 cubic inches / 42 cc, and bars up to 18 inches. For larger displacement saws, or longer bars, they would need to use heavier materials, thicker tie straps, etc., which would downgrade performance on smaller saws.

STIHL used to make 'Topic' chain, which was full sized 3/8 inch pitch chain, but with smaller cutters.

Philbert
 
Sure; Piltz oil - the less you use the better it works!


Yup, and I'm a believer in lo pro chain. I often read about what people need to have a fast saw pulling 16-18" bars and think, "Gee, I do that with a smaller displacement saw". But it's going to be proportional - you get a 20% narrower kerf and do the same work with 20" less power. And I'd like to see lo pro extended to 20" - a 45-50cc saw would pull that great.

But there's still all the issues with even longer bars on light plastic-chassis saws with small engines, low output oilers clutches that were not designed for the load, etc.. Even my 42cc Poulans with real bar studs and oilers that put out prodigious volumes of oil would not be appropriate with a 24" bar. And there is probably a reason the manufacturers don't use lo pro on longer bars.

i have heard of millers switching to lo pro with power heads of prodigious power. indeed, i think you can now buy lo pro ripping chain and longer lo pro bars. i suspect that the cannon bars used by our miscreant were intended for that purpose.

Tensile strength.

Oregon 91 series chain (3/8 low profile) is rated for use on saws up to 2.5 cubic inches / 42 cc, and bars up to 18 inches. For larger displacement saws, or longer bars, they would need to use heavier materials, thicker tie straps, etc., which would downgrade performance on smaller saws.

STIHL used to make 'Topic' chain, which was full sized 3/8 inch pitch chain, but with smaller cutters.

Philbert

i agree. tensile strength is a figure of merit. but like climbing rope, dynamic loading has to be considered too. my gut feeling is that it would be possible to use lo pro with a 3120 and a 60" bar, at least for milling. and i suspect that there are operators doing that. also, i doubt that plastic framed stihl clamshells and poulans are stout enough for that duty.

oregon recently increased the top plate length of its lo pro chain, perhaps to compete with carlton.
 
I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut

Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.
 
I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut

Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.

my experience, the rim drive sprocket doesn't care if it's 3/8" or lo pro. the nose sprocket on the bar won't run both. it has to be 3/8" or lo pro.
 
I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut

Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.

it's been more than ten years but i think i have run oregon (or carlton) lo pro on a milling bar with a 3120 on one end and a 394 on the other. the chain was ground to 10 degrees.
 
If these lo-pro chains arent designed for anything over 40cc why is cannon making long bars to accept these picco chains ? That would make them as dumb as him correct ?

Is oregons picco rim kit different from stihls ? Did i read in this thread or somewhere else they were different ?
 
it will run on a roller nose or .050 hard nose bar
i'll try again tomorrow, but every time i've tried to run lo pro on a 3/8" sprocket nosed bar, it hasn't worked. rims aren't a problem. could you post some video or photos? what does chain gauge have to do with it? if you have a .063 bar you need .063 chain, 3/8' or lo pro. thanks.
 
i'll try again tomorrow, but every time i've tried to run lo pro on a 3/8" sprocket nosed bar, it hasn't worked. rims aren't a problem. could you post some video or photos? thanks.
it wont work on a big 3/8 nose sprocket, I modified an 041 mount to fit my small mount husky (put oil holes in it)
 
it wont work on a big 3/8 nose sprocket, I modified an 041 mount to fit my small mount husky (put oil holes in it)
so what i hear is you modified a 041 bar to work as an 095. that's good, but we're talking about the other end, the nose sprocket. in my experience nose sprockets for 3/8" and lo pro don't work with both. am i missing something? thanks.
 
i have heard of millers switching to lo pro with power heads of prodigious power. indeed, i think you can now buy lo pro ripping chain and longer lo pro bars. i suspect that the cannon bars used by our miscreant were intended for that purpose. <snipette>

oregon recently increased the top plate length of its lo pro chain, perhaps to compete with carlton.

For one, Oregon does not compete with Carlton any more, because they are both owned by Blount here in Portland, Oregon now.

I got into low profile long ago after hearing about it from some of the chainsaw milling people here on AS. They were using Logosol low profile bars on 70cc saws for milling, because of the narrow kerf and because large saws tend to overheat using 3/8s standard B&C for milling. While those saws can oil a long bar, you really have to be careful running that setup because the chain is not designed to deal with that kind of torque. But they ran it. For a very short time Stihl sold large mount Picco bars on the 024, but stopped after about 6 months in the US. Seemingly they did that to avoid liability issues after they figured out that guys were running them on much larger saws. At one time Logosol also sold large mount low profile B&C for Stihl saws for milling, from 16 to 20 inch. The also no longer sell them in the US, also seemingly for liability reason.

I had used low profile on my TH saws, and I switched out my 025/250 small mount saws from .325 to 3/8 Picco/low profile. They ran better and cut faster. I stayed with that setup on those saws. 16" and 18" B&C worked well. I later swapped out my 1123 saws for 026/260 saws, and never looked back. I did a series of tests between .325 and 3/8 std chain on several 026s and they were basically a dead heat. So I flipped all my large mount .325 B&C to 3/8 std. 16" and 18" so that I had all 3/8 std B&C on all my saws. Then I bought a few 211 saws with low profile on them, and got back into Picco chain. Recently I came across a 16" Picco 3003 large mount bar from an 024. I also had a P-7 rim, and I got some PS chain for it at the local Stihl shop. I put it all on my 026/260 hybrid and WHAM! It runs like a dream. They sell that setup in Germany as a kit, but not here in the states.

So folks, my beef here is not with Picco B&C on saws, even large mount saws. There is a place for them, if you have pro style metal bar mounts and an oil pump that can wet the bar. The issue with Piltz, besides all his BS statements that are pure crap, is that he is selling hugely long bars on small homeowner plastic saws and smaller pro saws. He is also advocating using larger rims on those saws with longer bars, which defies basic principles of physics. Picco B&C is great stuff, if you stay within the scope of design specifications. A 16" Picco B&C spins fast and furious with full chisel PS chain on a 026, 260 or 261. A 241 will run it just fine as well. But these 24-32 inch bars are way beyond the design parameters of those smaller saws. Adding even larger rims just puts more strain on the clutch and engine to get more chain speed. Running low profile B&C on larger saws is done, mainly for milling, but be advised that that is also beyond the parameters of that chain's ability to manage the higher levels of torque. A 50cc saw is pretty much the limit of safe use with Picco loops and that is the largest saw I run this stuff on. I also run a much shorter bar than Piltz advocates, and a smaller rim.
 
I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut

Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.


Low profile/Picco needs a different rim drive and nose sprocket than 3/8 standard. My rim drive on my 026 says P-7 on it.
 
If these lo-pro chains arent designed for anything over 40cc why is cannon making long bars to accept these picco chains ? That would make them as dumb as him correct ?

Is oregons picco rim kit different from stihls ? Did i read in this thread or somewhere else they were different ?

Cannon sells the low larger profile bars here for the same reason that Stihl and Logosol once did. Mainly the demand for chainsaw milling. But you gott'a be very careful running Picco on larger saws. And they are open for liability if someone kills themselves. Just look at the Blitz gas can litigation that did that company in as an example.

Oregon and Stihl have different types of clutch drum spines, and an Oregon clutch drum will not fit Stihl rims, and vice verse. Baileys sells both types.
 
I'm a bit confused. Although I've never used low pro, isn't it the same pitch and can be used in 3/8 bars?

3/8 low profile will run in a 3/8 standard bar rail, but the rim drive is different, and the nose sprocket is different. The nose sprockets on a 3/8 standard bar are longer and wider than a low profile tip, and the low profile chain will raise up around the tip and the chain will wear and stretch rapidly. Before Cannon came out with Super Mini bars, Piltz used to sell these saws with long standard 3/8 bars and he warned people that the Picco chains would not last long on them. Read his fine print... always warnings about these being novelty saws, not intended to do large diameter cutting, long bars not being lubed properly, etc. etc.
 
Groan. Holman Trees. He cut 2 MILLION trees in what was it, 20 years time? Gary and I figured it out and he would have to have cut 400 trees a day (250 work days a year) to deck that many trees. That is 50 trees an hour for 20 years straight! No down time. No ice storms. No holidays off. Full 8 hour days. Only 2 weeks vacation a year. Quite the machine! Not... he was banned from AS for life for making threats in PMs to people. He is still a legend in his own mind over on Butch's master blaster site.

This clown has only 'cut' tens of thousands of trees. In an arbor business, which he himself trashes in his Ebay essays. Or someplace where he 'logged' the really big ones and has lost all the photos. Dunno why he doesn't just steal photos of his supposed tree 'felling' using Google, like he stole photos from AS members for his Ebay sales. If you look at some of the posts by people that really have dropped the big ones, like RandyMAC in NorCal, it might take all day to deck one giant old growth tree. The bigger they are, the more time they take to cut, the more time you need to line them out, and the more time they are to limb and buck once they are on the ground.

It never ends with these people. They are dug in so deep they cannot climb out any more.
and theres a few more of them,,still on this forum...legends in their own mind........
 

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