Pioneer chainsaws

[PogoInTheWoods]

it was a "new" "2x ultra cover" rustoleum. bout 6 coats on covers. still see green thru it. I used to paint & green is hardest to cover. not 6 coats hard usually, tho. it will be a "worksaw" sometimes, so paint not that important... no color name or #. looks school bus yellow. is lighter than factory.

I've read some good reviews on the Rust-Oleum Aircraft Remover. The brush-on version gets high marks. (The rattle can spray-on not so much.) Your green may have been a challenge for it, tho. Seems like it might be a good alternative to bead blasting or at least a good prep step for it in stubborn cases. Either way a one quart can would go a long way in stripping chainsaw parts. Gonna give some a try on my next project.

 

[p61 western]

I would be very interested to see the Reed setup.

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Here is a pic of the reed out of my p41hp.

 

[Acornhill]

That is the newer reed that replaced the metal reeds. Same part # for some of the NOS ones I have

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[p61 western]

That is the newer reed that replaced the metal reeds. Same part # for some of the NOS ones I have

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The fella was also wanting to see a pic of the 2 stage reed, do you have one you could post? I don't want to take apart my saw that has one right now just for a pic.

 

[Acornhill]

The BeCe reed?

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[p61 western]

The BeCe reed?

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Yes isn't that one you have a 2 stage?

 

[Acornhill]

Yes I do.

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[p61 western]

Could you post a pic of it for some that have not seen them before please?

 

[p61 western]

I got the p41hp all cleaned up and running great.

 

[Acornhill]

Could you post a pic of it for some that have not seen them before please?

Tomorrow

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[axeandwedge]

Picked up this pioneer 620 for fifty dollars at a scrapyard
Cleaned it up and fixed carb ,starter,and fuel hose,
These old saws tick over nice.

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[p61 western]

Tomorrow

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Than you for posting that pic. Are you going to put those in one of your saws?

 

[Acornhill]

Not sure yet, I have NOS P61 PP655 P51 P52 P41P42 pp405 top ends to use

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[free_rider_151]

Tomorrow

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Awesome. I can easily reproduce those.

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[Joab]

Awesome. I can easily reproduce those.

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When you do that, please share how you did it and what kind of reed material you used, etc. It's something I'd like to learn how to do.

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[Walter Glover]

I am most interested in the making of reeds as well!

 

[hillwilliam]

I haven't seen the two stage reeds. My p51 and p61s have single stage reeds. I am going to be CNC machining aluminum reed blocks and I want to mount up a tillotson carb. I will be making stock versions but I also want to make higher flow versions like are seen in the McCulloch and dirt bike motors. If there already are higher flowing blocks, it would help to see themso I can modify the stock one effectively.
Are there different versions or sizes of the walbro SDC? Both my saws have them.

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Hello Free_Rider - and everybody else,

I haven't been on AS for a while. It's too windy to be outside any more than I have to, so here I am.

Along with other folks, I'm interested in the machined reed blocks. Something I've always wondered about, though, is if the plastic ones function as a heat barrier, which may explain why Pioneers never (in my experience) vapor lock.

I'm also interested in a large-bore reed block, maybe with multiple reeds like some old Homies and Macs. Something I've been wanting to try for years is to put a Tillotson HL on my 655BP. It seems it could use a little more carb than the SDC80. I finally got around to try something: I modified an old Pioneer reed block and tried the HL324A off my 090. I was hoping the result would scare me, but there appears to be less than a 5% gain, judging from a couple of test cuts. I'm sure this isn't the ideal HL for a 655, and I don't know which one would be. I had to try, anyway.

I always figured - and still do - that the limiting factor would be the small bore of the reed block. I'd be glad to share how I got this thing on here, but the bottom line may be that it ain't worth it without using a whole different reed block. Looks like a toilet on there.

I'm also interested in what Chainsaw Jim does to reed blocks. I reamed out the one in my first Pioneer, a P51, along with doing a bunch of other things, when it was new. I'm sure I've enlarged the bores on some other ones over the years but wondered if it was worth it, since the dang things are so fragile in the first place.

 

[free_rider_151]

I will be doing aluminum blocks like the original and I will also be trying to do a pyramid style reed block similar to the ones on motorcycles. I have a Yamaha yz125 and the Reed block on that thing is MASSIVE in comparison to the pioneers. I can guarantee you that the limiting factor is the Reed. I want to extend the Reed block as far into the crankcase as possible to increase crankcase compression. I found that it made a huge difference in my p61 to fill empty space as much as the crank would allow. I've seen huge improvement by just doing some mild porting and milling the cylinder base to decrease the huge squish room in the combustion chamber. I have also purchased that tillotson and have it sitting on my "to do" shelf. I didn't want to modify a stock one to take it because of how rare they are and the fact that the Reed isn't gonna let the fuel through anyways. I'll let y'all know when I get to work on the Reed blocks. It's gonna be a while. Working on our AR-15 platform takes priority right now.

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[hillwilliam]

I will be doing aluminum blocks like the original and I will also be trying to do a pyramid style reed block similar to the ones on motorcycles. I have a Yamaha yz125 and the Reed block on that thing is MASSIVE in comparison to the pioneers. I can guarantee you that the limiting factor is the Reed. I want to extend the Reed block as far into the crankcase as possible to increase crankcase compression. I found that it made a huge difference in my p61 to fill empty space as much as the crank would allow. I've seen huge improvement by just doing some mild porting and milling the cylinder base to decrease the huge squish room in the combustion chamber. I have also purchased that tillotson and have it sitting on my "to do" shelf. I didn't want to modify a stock one to take it because of how rare they are and the fact that the Reed isn't gonna let the fuel through anyways. I'll let y'all know when I get to work on the Reed blocks. It's gonna be a while. Working on our AR-15 platform takes priority right now.

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I sent you a PM earlier.

The Pyramid reed sounds good as long as it's something that's made to fit in the cavity of a Pioneer. I'm sure you already thought of that. Stuffing the crankcase makes sense too. The reed block I used for my little experiment was already reamed out back in the early 80's, cracked, repaired, and probably cracked some more.

I've ported all my Pioneers since my first one was new. Except that I knew better than to monkey much with the ports of my 655BP.

It's going to be interesting to follow your project! Which Tilly are you going to use?

 

[free_rider_151]

Hillwilliam sorry I didn't see your pm. My phone didn't tell me I got a pm for some reason.

I don't remember which one it was... it's been too long ago. My memory is bad after about 6 months. For some reason I feel like it was a new carb for an 090.

Ports are a tricky thing to do. I did a ton of research and math before I went at it with the Dremel. I remember that I traced the entire pattern to paper and then did a lot of math on the computer to determine what would work. If I recall, I changed exhaust port timing slightly and widened the transfers significantly. I know that the exhaust ports on the pioneers are already on the outer edge of safe width. The rings will bite into the ports if they are too wide, and pioneer made the exhaust ports at the outer limits of safety.

As for crankcase reed cavity, I have a 3D laser scanning system for firearms reverse engineering and I used it to make a surface model of the intake cavity. That way I can make the block fit perfectly.

Here's the style reed I want to make

These have two reeds on top and bottom aswell as two on each opposing internal faces.