Pioneer chainsaws

[free_rider_151]

Paul, I ran the saw this weekend. What a beauty. She pulled excellent through the red oak we were cutting. Unfortunately I did not get any pictures. We were in a hurry to get out of there. I only needed richen it up a little bit.
Unfortunately my bar from Granberg is delayed due to a train derailment... Which is probably just an excuse that ups came up with. So I didn't get to hook up the saws together. Hopefully I can this weekend.

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[heimannm]

A little late to the discussion - I am not familiar with the SDC80, but the SDC carburetors came with at least two different bore/venturi sizes. The smaller has a .750" throttle bore and .625" venturi and the larger has a .812" throttle bore and .750" venturi.

The most of the Tillotson HL models have a .812" throttle bore and .687" venturi though the 272 used on the 940 welder has a 1.00" throttle bore and .875" venturi.

Several of the Tillotson HS models also have a .812" throttle bore and .687" venturi.

I have a few Tillotson HR models that are much bigger, and the HD that was used on snowmobiles is really enormous. The HD on the left, and a NOS HL from the 090 Stihl on the right.



Mark

 

[hillwilliam]

Hillwilliam sorry I didn't see your pm. My phone didn't tell me I got a pm for some reason.

I don't remember which one it was... it's been too long ago. My memory is bad after about 6 months. For some reason I feel like it was a new carb for an 090.

Ports are a tricky thing to do. I did a ton of research and math before I went at it with the Dremel. I remember that I traced the entire pattern to paper and then did a lot of math on the computer to determine what would work. If I recall, I changed exhaust port timing slightly and widened the transfers significantly. I know that the exhaust ports on the pioneers are already on the outer edge of safe width. The rings will bite into the ports if they are too wide, and pioneer made the exhaust ports at the outer limits of safety.

As for crankcase reed cavity, I have a 3D laser scanning system for firearms reverse engineering and I used it to make a surface model of the intake cavity. That way I can make the block fit perfectly.

Here's the style reed I want to make

These have two reeds on top and bottom aswell as two on each opposing internal faces.

'Twas actually yesterday I sent you the PM. Another one coming at you today.

Very cool, the 3D laser scanning! Oh yeah, I've often wished a Pioneer could have a reed setup like in that picture.

I'm fortunate to have never caught a ring in an exhaust port big enough to throw a cat through. And that's a lot of years of hard use with ported saws.

Typical for one of my P51/ P52 exhaust ports, and I wasn't quite finished with this one:

 

[hillwilliam]

A little late to the discussion - I am not familiar with the SDC80, but the SDC carburetors came with at least two different bore/venturi sizes. The smaller has a .750" throttle bore and .625" venturi and the larger has a .812" throttle bore and .750" venturi.

The most of the Tillotson HL models have a .812" throttle bore and .687" venturi though the 272 used on the 940 welder has a 1.00" throttle bore and .875" venturi.

Several of the Tillotson HS models also have a .812" throttle bore and .687" venturi.

I have a few Tillotson HR models that are much bigger, and the HD that was used on snowmobiles is really enormous. The HD on the left, and a NOS HL from the 090 Stihl on the right.

View attachment 571780

Mark

Good information, sir! Thanks.

From my own measurement, the venturi of an SDC80 is about 20mm or 3/4". And the bore of a Pioneer reed block is only about 3/4".

There are a lot of HL models and sizes, and I have very little experience with any of them. I think I recall reading that Art Martin had put a HL360 on his 655BP. Specs for that toilet are: 1.060" throttle bore and 0.945" venturi!

 

[free_rider_151]

'Twas actually yesterday I sent you the PM. Another one coming at you today.

Very cool, the 3D laser scanning! Oh yeah, I've often wished a Pioneer could have a reed setup like in that picture.

I'm fortunate to have never caught a ring in an exhaust port big enough to throw a cat through. And that's a lot of years of hard use with ported saws.

Typical for one of my P51/ P52 exhaust ports, and I wasn't quite finished with this one:
View attachment 571886

That port looks about like what mine look like. I like to mirror finish the exhaust, and keep the transfers rough from grinding.

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[Walter Glover]

P41 arrived today. Cleaned the starter as it would not rewind. Chucked the gas cap in the lathe and removed quite a bit of material to get a nice fit.
Attempting to start it earlier I flooded it. Cleared the cylinder and heated the plug with a torch to dry it and with a good rewind she fired up nice.
Ru s like a champ! Needs a filter cover that Brendon has for me so it will end up in pretty good condition for an old work gsaw!
My Pxx family is complete.
Soni law coming for Easter so building g another chain grinder haha!!
Walter

 

[Walter Glover]

An observation wrt the notching of Fairbanks Morse starter cups. I had great success on the two 650s and when the RA quit grabbing decided to notch it as well.
Now it grabs great BUT it won't let go! Scary to think if it started like that. Soooooooo back to trying a sleeve with possibly less aggressive notchs?
Will keep you posted.

 

[67L36Driver]

New friction washers may help.

They are on Parts Tree but postage is 8-9 bucks. Order twenty/forty to bring the each down. Pass 'me out at GTG as party favors.

U bend on the dogs? That's a no no.

 

[heimannm]

I have a large collection of both washers, anyone needs a few just send a PM with your mail address.

Mark

 

[Walter Glover]

Determined that the notchs might be too deep for the pawls to release from, I opened up the diameter of the cup so that the notchs are 'just' there. Had to repair the pulley with the pin to catch the spring and Bob's yer uncle! works great.
Would appreciate a couple of those washers for sure so will PM you.

 

[free_rider_151]

Here is the saw mostly assembled. I was having trouble getting my remote throttle to work equally with both saws, so I removed it since I need to do some milling tomorrow. I'll get some video as well

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[free_rider_151]

As promised:
Part 1

Part 2


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[hillwilliam]

As promised:
Part 1

Part 2


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Very cool. Even using a single P61 in your previous video, it looked to be cutting very efficiently from my minimal milling experience. Your chain(s) must be pretty good too.

 

[free_rider_151]

Very cool. Even using a single P61 in your previous video, it looked to be cutting very efficiently from my minimal milling experience. Your chain(s) must be pretty good too.

Ya we were giddy as little girls after that first cut.
These old saws pull very well. The modern saws are built to rev higher and don't like to be pushed into the cut. The old saws have a lot more torque and aren't even close to being as touchy on rpm. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they breathe better because they aren't piston ported.
Lol. I can't tell you how many chains I've destroyed and bars I've burned up because of experimenting with cutter sharpening.... The sad part is... Now I just file it the same as it comes from the factory.

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[hillwilliam]

Ya we were giddy as little girls after that first cut.
These old saws pull very well. The modern saws are built to rev higher and don't like to be pushed into the cut. The old saws have a lot more torque and aren't even close to being as touchy on rpm. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they breathe better because they aren't piston ported.
Lol. I can't tell you how many chains I've destroyed and bars I've burned up because of experimenting with cutter sharpening.... The sad part is... Now I just file it the same as it comes from the factory.

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Gotta just love them Pioneers. I got my first one about 35 yrs. ago and still have it after a couple of rebuilds. Until recently, all I owned for personal saws for the last 20 yrs. were Pioneers. (I've also owned a number of Jonnys and Huskys back when I cut timber for a living.) But recently I was given an 090 (no kidding!) for milling. I'm using full-comp semi-chisel filed for milling on that saw. Again, very little milling experience here.

 

[free_rider_151]

Lucky dog. 140cc... What bar length?

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[paul hill]

As promised:
Part 1

Part 2


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Thank you for taking the video and sharing. Those two saws look great together cutting that big ol' log and I'm really glad that saw is getting some great use.

I really like the mill set up with the hand winch. It looks like it is much easier and smoother than using the handles on the mill.

I recently did some milling with a ported Husky 385 and it cut well but you're spot on about the torque difference between the older saws and newer saws. I know there's a displacement difference between the two saws but the 61 you now have milled the same size log much smoother than the ported 385.

 

[free_rider_151]

No, the thanks belongs to you for selling me such an awesome saw. These two are in perfect harmony together and it sounds kinda like an airplane. It's pretty awesome.
Today I milled a 44" red oak with these saws, and it was just as fast as the maple. You simply can't beat the awesome torque these saws have.

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[hillwilliam]

Lucky dog. 140cc... What bar length?

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36" roller-tip. I'm running .404", and I changed the 8-pin (huge) drive rim to a 7-pin. Of course the 090 has lots of torque, but I love my Pioneers.

 

[free_rider_151]

36" roller-tip. I'm running .404", and I changed the 8-pin (huge) drive rim to a 7-pin. Of course the 090 has lots of torque, but I love my Pioneers.

I would switch to full skip. There's so many chips being made in that long of a cut that they literally hold the bar out of the cut. I found that my cutters stayed sharper for longer when I switched to skip because the teeth can take 2x the bite. With the torque of these saws, they make tons of chips really fast and need the extra space afforded by the skip chain

Edit: I make my skip chain by cutting off every 3rd cutter. I like the woodland 43rp, but it only comes in super skip, so I buy comp and cut it down