Potential Clients Who Don't Return Calls

[Sunrise Guy]

if I can get it then I have no problem taking it and will sleep very well at night, if I give my bid and they accept it then what's the problem? you can't sit there and tell me if you had the chance to make $20G's or $5G's you'd go for the $5G's because $20 is unjustyfied........give me a break........sounds to me that you are upset that you aren't making the big money....by no means am I making the big money yet but when the chance comes around I'll be damned if I pass on it.
stop worrying about how much someone else is making and go make you own money..........it's that simple........stop paying your helper/friend 50% and you'll make a few bucks. does he split the cost 50/50? probably not.
BTW: I'm not the one who started this thread.

Yeah, I posted that he does split the costs.

FWIW, the "worrying" about how much others make is central to many posts in here when it comes to the whole underbidding issue. Granted, we are a free country and free enterprise reigns. The trouble is that greed often enters into the equation and that is when I think we all suffer. Maybe my innate sense of what is "fair" differs from yours, but I still can't shake my feeling that some take advantage of others and we are all the poorer for it, no pun intended. Who can judge, ultimately, what is fair? I think we each need to make the call and operate as we see fit. I work as much as I want, for the most part, so that tells me that I am charging what the majority of my client base sees as fair. My lifestyle is great, for me, so that tells me that I am making the right amount of money.

As far as taking the $20G's over the $5G's, I could never bring myself to charge that much for the gig, as you described it, in most cases. I do have a conscience that dictates to me what a given gig is worth. I go by that. Now, that being said, if everyone and his uncle was getting that kind of money for gigs, and I was in that business pool in that given area, sure I'd charge it. I wonder what the gig actually went for.

 

[tree md]

No worries buddy. I don't care what you charge one way or the other. Your the only one that can decide what your work is worth to you.

I will say this though, our local rehab/work release program has a tree service as well as a moving service. They charge $750 a day, spike everything they climb and typically hack everything they touch. My work is worth more than that.

According to your numbers you would be doing that job for $14 a tree and I just can't work for that. I lost that bid but to tell the truth I would rather let a low baller get bogged down working the 5 acres for dirt cheap so I can run and make what I figure I'm worth on other jobs. The day I have to do 5 acres of trees for 5G I'll hang it up. I felt that $72 a tree was reasonable and didn't want to do it for less. I have the luxury of doing that right now because of the volume of business I am doing. Hasn't always been that way but I have always tried to make at least $125 an hour.

 

[tree md]

Just an added thought Sunrise. I had to figure what I am averaging a week without doing that job. If I take two weeks out of my schedule to do their job I am going to have to make what I am already averaging or it isn't worth it to me.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

What TreeMD also left out is that he is in a multi county storm with a backlog that allows him to work his crew into overtime all week long. I was down there fro several weeks untill we could not make cost any more.

(BTW I've referred several several calls to you since we left, hope they panned out. They were in nice upper middle class neighborhoods)

I was running leads all day long, selling for a 4 man crew with a $3000 daily production goal, and closing at less then 10% (lead ratio, not estimated value) He being a "local boy" will have work for at least a year.

 

[chucknduck]

I don't know about you guys but I find tree work to very dangerous, so I charge AS MUCH AS I Can when I do it, unless it is for a church or a friend. I think a lot of tree guys don't explain to their customers how dangerous tree work is. I have found that if you explain that to them you will get away with higher bids. 25 G's for 340 trees is a fair price, I charged 18grand for pruning 40 trees at a golf course and removing two, it took 12 days with a three man crew. I was the high bid, but I explained that my company was insured, and understood that it was a risky job, so we would be carefull when we did it. If the customer has the attitude that anybody with a chainsaw can cut on a tree, I tell them that anybody can, and suggest that they prune or remove the tree themselves!

 

[(WLL)]

Well just laugh your ass off if you want to but I get $250.00 an hour on a lot of jobs and I'm not that far away from you. I'm not touching anything that takes two days for $700.00 or $1,000.00 either. In fact we did a job last May right in your neck of the woods that took three 8 hour days and paid $8,520.00. That is $355.00 per hour. I have been in this business all my life and I care about trees and tree health but nobody in my organization had better tell me "we bid it cheap because we wanted to climb the tree".

 

[tree md]

What TreeMD also left out is that he is in a multi county storm with a backlog that allows him to work his crew into overtime all week long. I was down there fro several weeks untill we could not make cost any more.

(BTW I've referred several several calls to you since we left, hope they panned out. They were in nice upper middle class neighborhoods)

I was running leads all day long, selling for a 4 man crew with a $3000 daily production goal, and closing at less then 10% (lead ratio, not estimated value) He being a "local boy" will have work for at least a year.

I appreciate that very much John. It was great meeting you and your guys. I kind of slowed down a little around the first of Jan. I guess everyone was trying to recover financially from Christmas. Things are picking up again. I've got a backlog of jobs to bid and it's getting to the point that it is no longer cost efficient for me to climb personally. I was sorry to here that you had to leave so soon. If you plan to come down again let me know and I'll see what I can do about setting you up with more references. It was nice to work with a class operation like you and your guys.

 

[mckeetree]

I'm sorry, man. Try to have some fun. Life is not only about making money. Yeah, I have two daughters in college, a mortgage, other expenses, but I planned things out to where I don't have to sweat and grub for every penny out there. I know many in our business fall prey to the endless cycle of buying bigger and bigger "toys" each year, but I wonder how happy they are. I guess one man's nightmare existence of owing everything to the title holders is another man's dream of living the "good life" at any cost.

Sorry???? For what? I didn't say anything for anybody to be sorry for. I like the money. And are you a business or just some guy trying to make climbing wages because reading your rationale as to how you figure your jobs it sounds more like somebody just trying to make climbing wages for themselves and a another guy or something, I'm not trying to just make climbing wages. That is what the guys that work for me do. I"m in business with the overhead of business and i'm all out on that let's see......I need to make $200.00 today for myself and $200.00 for my right hand man kind of deal. Count me out big time on that crap. And as for as fun I have plenty of it but when I said I didn't have the luxury to do whatever I want I meant as far as the tree service goes. It is a business and I have to run it like a business with a projected profit and a bottom line that is aligned with the investment that is put into it but I don't feel sad or sorry about that. That is ridiculous. You have already exposed how you "figure up" your prices and if you have "planned out things" as you put it to where you don"t have to sweat and grub for every penny out there good for you but it makes it harder on guys like me that has intentions of maintaining a fairly high standard of living from our business. And if that's greedy then I guess I'm greedy.

 

[John464]

Seeing how cheap some of you guys bid makes me sick. $500 a day? I can do that in two hours by myself with a small self propelled stumper. Why not get the going rate? You are up in the air with potential for a life threatening experience, have multiple pieces of equipment, trucks, chippers saws, INSURANCE??, overhead, adversting, what if something breaks? You are working for the same kinda money a landscaper nets who is raking leaves per day, and all they brought to work was two $5 rakes, a blower, and a tarp. Now tell me who is the idiot?

 

[woodchux]

I think that not every tree service can charge $250 HR because their production is much lower than a fully equipped service.

 

[tree md]

I think that not every tree service can charge $250 HR because their production is much lower than a fully equipped service.

Yup, I agree. I don't knock anyone for trying to make an honest buck. I'm not ashamed to admit that I worked at that level before. We all had to start somewhere. But... When you get into business for yourself you should aim a little higher IMHO.

 

[Rftreeman]

I'm probably the greediest SOB in my town, I want it ALL !!!!!!!!!! Tree work and Lawn work as much as I can get and when I get enough that I can't handle it then I'll hire more people, people don't get rich by making just enough, to heck with that, if I get the chance to make a dollar I'll jump on it, I'm just starting for myself so I'll take what ever I can get, I'm doing a job now that will span over 25 months elevating Bradford pears, 250 of them at $80 a tree but I can only do ten a month so I'll go over and knock out the ten the first Thursday of each month collect my $800 pay my helper his $10 an hour and move on to the next job. I'm sure glad Sunrise isn't around here or he'd be doing those trees for $10 each.

moral of this story if there is one, go for as much as you can get or someone else will.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

This will be my last post in this thread, except for some pics.

Most of us charge what we feel we are worth balanced against what we feel we can get, for a given job, and that obviously makes good business sense. I don't give my services away. I did bid this one gig low, and that's that. If any of you want to post that you've never done that, for any reason whatsoever, then I will, in the context of this forum, call you a damn liar.

Stay safe out there. I'll post some pics of my big oak gig in a few days, if it stops raining down here.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

people don't get rich by making just enough,

People do not get rich, or make that comfortable, in the green industry without having other people to do the work for them.

I had one guy show me his numbers, in his market he needed to run 3 crews (2-4 men varying on need) to make what he needed to live as an upper middle class family.

 

[John464]

People do not get rich, or make that comfortable, in the green industry without having other people to do the work for them.

what do yo you mean by this statement? what is considered rich? 1 million dollars in total assets(business and personal)? I know quite a few in the green industry with that or better. I don't consider them rich. Living in middle class is average. Living in the upper class, thats possible too in the green industry. Look at Mayer Tree for example, Boston Bulls, employer. That guy has atleast 5 million in equipment alone. I'm sure a good bit of it is paid for. I'm sure that guy isn't putting up with all the stresses the tree biz brings to be an average joe or middle class. According to Boston Bull the owner is even out there dragging brush and raking up.

There is a possibility to be rich in every industry. You just need to be on top of whatever industry you are in and of course great employees helping you get there.

 

[mckeetree]

People do not get rich, or make that comfortable, in the green industry without having other people to do the work for them.

what do yo you mean by this statement? what is considered rich? 1 million dollars in total assets(business and personal)? I know quite a few in the green industry with that or better. I don't consider them rich. Living in middle class is average. Living in the upper class, thats possible too in the green industry. Look at Mayer Tree for example, Boston Bulls, employer. That guy has atleast 5 million in equipment alone. I'm sure a good bit of it is paid for. I'm sure that guy isn't putting up with all the stresses the tree biz brings to be an average joe or middle class. According to Boston Bull the owner is even out there dragging brush and raking up.

There is a possibility to be rich in every industry. You just need to be on top of whatever industry you are in and of course great employees helping you get there.

Is that not what the guy ( John Paul Sanborn) just said?

 

[clearance]

People do not get rich, or make that comfortable, in the green industry without having other people to do the work for them.

According to Boston Bull the owner is even out there dragging brush and raking up.

There is a possibility to be rich in every industry. You just need to be on top of whatever industry you are in and of course great employees helping you get there.

The man is dragging brush? I admire that greatly, never met him but way to go buddy, leadership at its best.

 

[John464]

[


Is that not what the guy ( John Paul Sanborn) just said?

not exactly. he said rich green industry owners(tree care) don't do work themselves and I provided an example otherwise. and Im also wondering what JPS considers rich. I don't think middle class is rich. Its average thats why they call it middle class. My belief is that upper class income is possible in the green industry and the owner can still get his hands dirty. I also think thats part of the equation in becoming rich. You get a lot more respect from your employees that way. Once passionate about working with trees, the passion doesn't leave you, no matter how rich you become.

 

[mckeetree]

not exactly. he said rich green industry owners(tree care) don't do work themselves and I provided an example otherwise. and Im also wondering what JPS considers rich. I don't think middle class is rich. Its average thats why they call it middle class. My belief is that upper class income is possible in the green industry and the owner can still get his hands dirty. I also think thats part of the equation in becoming rich. You get a lot more respect from your employees that way. Once passionate about working with trees, the passion doesn't leave you, no matter how rich you become.

That brings up an interesting question.....what do people in our industry consider rich or what is the threshold of upper middle class. I remember talking with an old nurserymen back about 1986 ( I would have been 25 at the time) and he asked me what did I consider rich. I told him a million dollars. He laughed and said there might come a time a million was not rich and I think that time has come. A lot of our customers are extremely wealthy and most of them don't consider wealth that is not liquid nearly the same as liquid assets. My grandpa used to call it reach and get it money. Grandpa was pretty wealthy for his day but it was mostly land and cattle. He never had a lot of cash money. I think a lot of green industry folks are like that, not a lot of cash but a pretty high net worth because of other assets.

 

[mckeetree]

Amateur hour is over...

The rest of us can go back to the business of making the GREENERY

Imagine, cutting the price because he just wanted to climb it..... LOL

I bid a job today that is going to take 15 minutes max for $425.00 and got it. The people even prepaid. That works out to $1,700.00 an hour. Please don't bash me my wife spends a lot of money.