Pricing logs?

[Bearcreek]

Pallet price meaning?

I think (but I'm not entirely sure) that he means that it'd be used for making pallets. I'm sure that's true in some, but not all cases. There were many pallet mills in the area where I used to live in Ohio and they used exclusively low value hardwoods, primarily the various oaks and maples, but pretty much anything was fair game. I've seen pallets being made out of red and white oak, cherry, silver, red and sugar maple, ash, locust, sycamore, sassafras, buckeye, pig and shagbark hickory, mulberry, cottonwood, aspen and more. In the east, I rarely encountered a pallet on a construction site that wasn't hardwood. Here in the west, softwood pallets are much more common, since softwoods predominate. Basically, low value logs, of all species are often used for pallets.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Pallet price meaning?

Pallet wood, wood that is only good for pallets. Are there even any commercial lumber mills left in Colorado? Half of the cost is getting it to the mill.

 

[Woody912]

Pallet price meaning?

boards used to make shipping pallets. Low end of the scale. Would not believe some of the crooked logs I have seen put on the debarker!

 

[softdown]

Pallet wood, wood that is only good for pallets. Are there even any commercial lumber mills left in Colorado? Half of the cost is getting it to the mill.

There is a local mill owned by a local billionaire named Bacon. The logs come from his 170,000 acre ranch. I've heard all they make is 2x4s. Plus they sell some firewood.
He used to take his best logs to a mill in Pueblo, CO while selling the rest as firewood.

Colorado is a very anemic manufacturer outside of Coors brewery.

The cost of getting it to the mill? It isn't worth loading a log and taking it somewhere for $100 in my opinion. Unless they were already stacked. Costs too much to operate heavy equipment in the woods.

 

[fishdrivel]

Douglas fir grows all the way into mexico, and into canada, as far east as Montana and Wyoming, including parts of Colorado, Utah, Nevada etc. It technically has the largest natural growth area of any of the major lumber woods. So no, its not hemmed into a specific region.

Its been planted throughout Europe and eastern Canada, for commercial lumber. (though for some damned reason they prefer Sitka Spruce in Europe? I think because it grows a little faster and has much smaller limb structure, so it can be harvested earlier...)

"hemFir" is white fir and Hemlock, milled out of the same pile of junk wood, but still pays better then pine. Then "hemfir" is sold as its own species at hardware stores, because its cheap. ("white fir" being Grand, Noble, Silver, Alpine etc they all get lumped into the same pile with Western Hemlock)

As for R value? I don't think solid wood next to solid wood is going to make all that much of a difference one species to the other, however, pine is not very rot resistant at all, where as Doug Fir is. the R value argument, is null and void when you consider that chinking, windows and other weather protection is where most of the R value is lost in a log cabin (or any style of home really). Don't let the manufactures lie to you on that one, they use pine simply because it grows straight, is easy to work and is cheap, though I'd bet that more use Doug Fir simply for the rot resistance and strength.


Redwood isn't actually a very good structural wood, its very close to cedar and cyprus being rather soft and somewhat brittle, the railroads, ALL OF THEM preferred it because of its natural rot/bug resistance and its very resistant to fire, which is important when you're dealing with coal/wood fired steam engines. It does make a rather excellent wood for siding and decking though, much like cedar. Modern sleepers(cross ties) are going to be red oak or Doug Fir, for strength and rot resistance, notice pine isn't in the equation.

Very knowledgeable post here but some exaggerations or personal choices?
Pine is not all junk. Even Southern Yellow Pine is not all the same species.
Here in Georgia, Georgia Longleaf Pine is cut down and replanted with loblolly.
Old growth is very good lumber - as good as douglas fir. I'm suspecting you are talking about log cabin wood?
Beam spacing (from charts) is greater for Southern Yellow Pine than Douglas fir!
Southern Yellow pine is notorious for warping with small wood like 2x's Therefore there are advantages for Dog Fir.
Ponderosa Pine is very good appearance but much lower spans, like cedars.
Old growth Southern Yellow Pine is higher density than Doug Fir and one reason that old porches and flooring hangs around for 100's of years.

 

[Mad Professor]

We turned poplar/cottonwood into pallet. Other lower grade was hemlock which was 6 X 6"s and 1 X 4" , not sure if the boards also became pallet.

Small white pine was 6 X 6" and some 4/4 #2 boards, the bigger ones got some 5/4 clear #1 and FAS.

Also did white and red oaks. Those made some nice 4/4 boards and the best stuff was 8/4 that was all clear.

 

[softdown]

Not the best article, at all, but there are some interesting points here and there: http://www.woodassistant.com/

Hopefully somebody turns up a far more useful guide.

 

[softdown]

Better article regarding pines: https://www.treehugger.com/most-common-north-american-pine-species-1341866

Both articles are poor in regards to what I am looking for:
Ratings for strength, durability, weight, stability, R-value, bug and rot resistance etc.

I used to have this stuff memorized for the major N. American species though I never became too knowledgeable regarding the pine species. There are a LOT of pine species.
Here in Colorado it seems like the vast majority of harvestable trees are pine.

I envy regions with a lot of oak and walnut. Old growth cedar and redwood are also very nice for many applications.

 

[softdown]

Having just reviewed several wood species articles I will say this. Kids don't write as well as they used to.

 

[Woody912]

Very knowledgeable post here but some exaggerations or personal choices?
Pine is not all junk. Even Southern Yellow Pine is not all the same species.
Here in Georgia, Georgia Longleaf Pine is cut down and replanted with loblolly.
Old growth is very good lumber - as good as douglas fir. I'm suspecting you are talking about log cabin wood?
Beam spacing (from charts) is greater for Southern Yellow Pine than Douglas fir!
Southern Yellow pine is notorious for warping with small wood like 2x's Therefore there are advantages for Dog Fir.
Ponderosa Pine is very good appearance but much lower spans, like cedars.
Old growth Southern Yellow Pine is higher density than Doug Fir and one reason that old porches and flooring hangs around for 100's of years.

old growth loblolly and longleaf are excellent timber but the new super trees with growth rings 1/2" apart are much less so. White pine like we have in the midwest is more like spruce, much lower strength, not used for framing to my knowledge.

 

[Woody912]

There is a local mill owned by a local billionaire named Bacon. The logs come from his 170,000 acre ranch. I've heard all they make is 2x4s. Plus they sell some firewood.
He used to take his best logs to a mill in Pueblo, CO while selling the rest as firewood.

Colorado is a very anemic manufacturer outside of Coors brewery.

The cost of getting it to the mill? It isn't worth loading a log and taking it somewhere for $100 in my opinion. Unless they were already stacked. Costs too much to operate heavy equipment in the woods.

Colorado used to have Magpul until the gov decided black guns are evil and ran them off to Texas!

 

[softdown]

Colorado used to have Magpul until the gov decided black guns are evil and ran them off to Texas!

We used to have a couple scope manufacturers as well. Redfield was one as memory serves. Our government is now about as nuts as commiefornia. The mountains and convenience keep me here. Prices went insane in scenic parts of Wyoming and Idaho but we don't hear about that. There are a LOT of people who quietly crave smaller and more responsible governments.

 

[softdown]

Thoughts on Ponderosa pine? I think that is the dominant local species. Log homes dominate the area that I work. I know pine is excellent for that - high R-value and easy to work. Not too heavy.

 

[Mad Professor]

Better article regarding pines: https://www.treehugger.com/most-common-north-american-pine-species-1341866

Both articles are poor in regards to what I am looking for:
Ratings for strength, durability, weight, stability, R-value, bug and rot resistance etc.

I used to have this stuff memorized for the major N. American species though I never became too knowledgeable regarding the pine species. There are a LOT of pine species.
Here in Colorado it seems like the vast majority of harvestable trees are pine.

I envy regions with a lot of oak and walnut. Old growth cedar and redwood are also very nice for many applications.

You might try searching the Woodweb and/or asking some questions there.

 

[softdown]

You might try searching the Woodweb and/or asking some questions there.

I'm really remote so I mostly socialize on the interwebs. Easier to control in some ways.

Anyway there is this: https://www.wood-database.com/ponderosa-pine/
Interesting that it is classified as a hard pine in spite of its softness.

 

[northmanlogging]

ya all talking about old growth Southern pine...
its easy to make wood last when its not getting battered by rain daily, Doug fir has only been a lumber tree for around 150 years, give it time to prove itself for rot resistance. S pines have been used for around 600 years.


As for old growth, define old growth? its not likely to see a whole lot of either being cut any time soon.

 

[Woody912]

ya all talking about old growth Southern pine...
its easy to make wood last when its not getting battered by rain daily, Doug fir has only been a lumber tree for around 150 years, give it time to prove itself for rot resistance. S pines have been used for around 600 years.


As for old growth, define old growth? its not likely to see a whole lot of either being cut any time soon.

I think longleaf heart lumber will last almost indefinitely outside. I know a corner fence post that has to be almost 100.

 

[catbuster]

Wood does not have a long lifespan. Even Cedar outside. It’s not stainless steel. Some of it is more rot-resistant than others, but it all rots eventually.

Douglas Fir has exceptional properties for structural use. Just because it’s the best does not mean everything else is useless. Lolbolly is commonly framed with in my area. We run a lot of double studs, double top plates and extra blocking to make up for it. It deflects easily, but that’s the nature of the beast. We gotta use what we have.


Some of the wood’s toughness has to do with the environment it came from. The PNW has some harsh weather that trees survive. Georgia gets to enjoy tornadoes and hurricanes, which flatten stands. Between those events, weather is pretty gentle.

Just my $.02. For free.

 

[softdown]

Wood does not have a long lifespan. Even Cedar outside. It’s not stainless steel. Some of it is more rot-resistant than others, but it all rots eventually.

Douglas Fir has exceptional properties for structural use. Just because it’s the best does not mean everything else is useless. Lolbolly is commonly framed with in my area. We run a lot of double studs, double top plates and extra blocking to make up for it. It deflects easily, but that’s the nature of the beast. We gotta use what we have.


Some of the wood’s toughness has to do with the environment it came from. The PNW has some harsh weather that trees survive. Georgia gets to enjoy tornadoes and hurricanes, which flatten stands. Between those events, weather is pretty gentle.

Just my $.02. For free.

Harsh weather in the PNW? Such as a lot of rain?

Idaho is a great timber state. I wonder what species is dominate in Idaho. Might be Douglas Fir in Oregon?

 

[fishdrivel]

Thoughts on Ponderosa pine? I think that is the dominant local species. Log homes dominate the area that I work. I know pine is excellent for that - high R-value and easy to work. Not too heavy.

Ponderosa Pine in California is very straight and soft. Very easy to work, as I remember.
Not as strong as Southern Yellow Pine or Doug Fir.