Problem with free standing wood stoves

[Chris-PA]

Not sure if it was said yet, lots of reading, but have you tried to run your blower on the furnace to circulate air around your house?

That's what I do. the main stove is in the finished basement, with the main return duct passing through the ceiling. I added grates to the bottom of those ducts and blocked off the old return with a rug. I added a cheap AC thermostat to turn on the blower when the basement temperature gets into the mid-80's. I keep the basement door open so the stairs can function as a return. The air outlets in the side of the house wherre the stove is are mostly blocked, so as to move the heat to the other side of the house.

It works OK, but I hate listening to the blower all the time. I'd like to put a nice cast iron grate in the ceiling over the stove, ans add a small stove to the other side of the house.

 

[NSMaple1]

Problem: stove = space heater.

 

[Whitespider]

Maybe a forced air/warm air wood fired furnace in the basement??
Just sayin'.
*

 

[Pulp]

The original homesteaders here had a wood stove in the basement. I think that is what I need to go back to. I can do it with free standing wood stoves on the main floor but it is a lot of extra work. I been doing it going on 5th winter now, and it's getting old. The old brick chimney is still going down to the basement. The upstairs wood stoves would be fine for the fringe months Sept. Oct, April, May, June. Either that or I'm going to go the OWB route, 2400 sq ft house.

No, No....heating a basement is just a bad idea.
Think about it: that cellar is some kind of stone in dirt.
Older homes had no insulation in the foundations. You put BTUs in that space, where does most of the heat go ?
Right, it transfers out into the dirt on all sides, and below. Forget the myth about "heat rising" with wood stoves.
Most convection is around the stove, conduction when you sit on it . So, place your stand alone stove where you want the heat.

Best advice so far: INSULATE the hell out of your place; payback is fast and efficient. It's a DIY thing.
And any masonry/brick chimney also takes BTUs out of the house. Line it.
Got good dry hardwood to burn ?
We're at -12 F this morning. No fans, no gas, no oil, no electric heat, just stand-alone wood stoves cranking with beech, yellow birch, hard maple food.
The bill will be coming in the morning. ( Or, send a new benjamin to this address).

 

[olyman]

Sounds like you need a magic stove.

Or pay the price for a heating system that is so large that it can do the impossible.

Of course this will probably cost more than making your house energy efficient in the first place.


......and leave you every year cutting, splitting, seasoning, moving, loading, etc.

Did I mention polluting?

There is justice in there somewhere!

another elitist know it all post.. everyone,,should conform to your puke standards,,right mr epa???

 

[olyman]

No, No....heating a basement is just a bad idea.
Think about it: that cellar is some kind of stone in dirt.
Older homes had no insulation in the foundations. You put BTUs in that space, where does most of the heat go ?
Right, it transfers out into the dirt on all sides, and below. Forget the myth about "heat rising" with wood stoves.
Most convection is around the stove, conduction when you sit on it . So, place your stand alone stove where you want the heat.

Best advice so far: INSULATE the hell out of your place; payback is fast and efficient. It's a DIY thing.
And any masonry/brick chimney also takes BTUs out of the house. Line it.
Got good dry hardwood to burn ?
We're at -12 F this morning. No fans, no gas, no oil, no electric heat, just stand-alone wood stoves cranking with beech, yellow birch, hard maple food.
The bill will be coming in the morning. ( Or, send a new benjamin to this address).

another bs post,,from the king of bs.....

 

[Whitespider]

...your stove is a radiant space heater, while the furnace has a heat exchanger designed to transfer heat to the air duct.

Going a bit further with that...
A stove is a radiant heater... the only air it directly heats is the air that comes in contact with it (conduction). Convection then carries the warm air up to the ceiling, where it stays or is lost through the roof or upper floor. Radiant heat travels through the air without heating it (well, a little bit, but not enough to talk about) until it strikes something solid like furniture, walls, floors, your body, etc. Those solid objects absorb the heat and then transfer it to the air via conduction (warm, solid objects also radiate)... that's why home heat recovery with a stove takes a a bit of time... and that's why circulating air in the house is only marginally effective (depending on the layout of the house).

A warm air furnace works in the opposite... it pulls the cold air from the rooms, heats it, and returns it to the rooms. The air then warms the solid objects via conduction. The "felt" recovery time is shorter, but the solid objects don't warm as fast as being in line-of-sight with a stove. The furnace blower keeps air circulating so the warm air doesn't collect at the ceiling (or, at least, not as dramatically). Adding some sort of cold air/warm air circulation to the stove room (or house) will help... but really Coldfront, blowing air across or over the stove will accomplish more of what you're trying to do (in this case).

Try reversing one of your ceiling fans.

Absolutely... reverse them all‼
Your ceiling fans should be drawing air up during the heating season. This "circulates" the warm air across the ceiling and down the walls (which have been warmed by radiation), while pulling the cold air from the floor up to the ceiling (which has been warmed by the convection-conduction process). Trying to push the warm air down in the center of the room is basically futile... it just reverses and heads back up to the ceiling. Pulling the air up and circulating it across the ceiling/down the walls will be more effective, and eliminate "felt" drafts.

Forget the myth about "heat rising" with wood stoves.

I'll argue that every time.
I've heated more than one old farm house with a stove in the basement... it works quite well. The walls of a basement mostly have 45° earth outside them... the walls of the upper floors have -10° air outside them. Although recovery time is lengthened, the heat is exceptionally even and constant once recovery is accomplished. It's also the most comfortable sort of heat IMO, with the whole floor being the heat radiator. Absolutely no drafts and always warm bare feet... heat rises, it ain't a myth. There may be some radiant heat lost to the walls of the basement as they warm the earth outside them, but that earth is a pretty good insulator once warmed. Have you ever heard of an "earth home"??
*

 

[Coldfront]

Actually the basement is only under the main part of the house then there are crawl spaces under the kitchen and front room. The basement walls are stone about the size of bowling balls which would hold and radiate heat nicely. I'm sure a wood furnace in the basement would keep my house toasty warm with 1/2 the effort of the 2 wood stoves I have on the main level now. I believe forced air with cold air return from a basement is about the best you can do for fast efficient heating a big old house. But like I said the free standing wood stoves I have in place now would be great for the fringe months or just taking the chill out of the house. More insulation and new windows are in the plan as well. Everyone who visits here loves this old house, they just don't build'em like this anymore.

 

[Marshy]

I heat 3800 sqft from the basement. Heat works it's way up through the floors and open stairwell. It takes along time to get my house up to temperature with the stove being in the basement, but once it's at 70-72 it's pretty easy to hold it there. Also with your floors retaining heat there is a slow release even after your stove has shut down.

I do it the exact same way and I even have a walkout basement with an insulated garage door which lest out a lot of me heat and I can still keep my house 70-75 degrees as long as the wind is mild. The basement is somewhere near 80 degrees or more at times but it acts as a large reserve of hot air and helps to moderate the house temperature. If it get below 0 for more than a few days I might add a box fan to help push the warm air towards the stairwell but for the most part it's natural convection. My home was built in the last 20 years so it's ok in the insulation department. It's a 1800 sqft ranch on a full basement, basement is unfinished, so basically I'm heating 3600 sqft with my wood stove that's probably meant to heat 2000 sqft. It burns a lot of wood but it keeps us warm. I couldn't stay that warm at the same price burning fuel oil, that's for sure.

The other major parts of heating my house with a standing stove in the basement is that my floors are warm, really warm incertain areas. Those warm floors work exactly the same way as radiant floor heating. Comfort of your living environment is largely controled by the radient heat (or lack there of) of your walls and floors. You could have a large 16x12 living space that is 70*F but if you have a sliding glass door on one wall with an additional 1-2' of glass around it then the people in that room are going to feel cold because of radient heat loss. So, my point is that although getting the hot air up to the main level of the house is important, the ratient heat of my floors is just as important or more important to haveing a comfortable living space.

OP, You might want to consider running your forced air systems fan only, to get the heat in the house to turn over. Sounds like you need to move more air. You can probably lift a lead on the igniter of the furnace so just the fans run based on your thermostat settings. I do that with my oil boiler to keep the baseboard in the garage from freezing.

 

[Chris-PA]

Actually the basement is only under the main part of the house then there are crawl spaces under the kitchen and front room. The basement walls are stone about the size of bowling balls which would hold and radiate heat nicely. I'm sure a wood furnace in the basement would keep my house toasty warm with 1/2 the effort of the 2 wood stoves I have on the main level now. I believe forced air with cold air return from a basement is about the best you can do for fast efficient heating a big old house. But like I said the free standing wood stoves I have in place now would be great for the fringe months or just taking the chill out of the house. More insulation and new windows are in the plan as well. Everyone who visits here loves this old house, they just don't build'em like this anymore.

This is exactly what we do - our place is two old log and stone structures from the 1830's joined together with a frame addition in the 1950's. The second, smaller stove upstairs is great for warmer days, extra heat on colder days (and then the moving air from the old furnace blower circulates that too), or when we want some ambiance. The basement where the stove is located is stone, exposed on two sides (it is a bank house, so there is a door and windows at the front). It hold heat quite well down there - as Spidey says, the dirt outside those walls is a lot warmer than the air outside.

 

[Ambull01]

Best advice so far: INSULATE the hell out of your place; payback is fast and efficient. It's a DIY thing.
And any masonry/brick chimney also takes BTUs out of the house. Line it.
Got good dry hardwood to burn ?
We're at -12 F this morning. No fans, no gas, no oil, no electric heat, just stand-alone wood stoves cranking with beech, yellow birch, hard maple food.
The bill will be coming in the morning. ( Or, send a new benjamin to this address).

I'm totally new to this whole wood burning for heat thing so forgive my ignorance. Insulating your house is a DIY thing? Sounds like a huge project. I read a little about it and sounds like my two options are insulating the interior or exterior walls (duh, what else would you insulate Ambull). Anyway, the interior walls sounds a bit easier. The exterior walls would force me to remove all the siding, use one of those platform things that you can stand on, etc. If you had to insulate, would you go interior or exterior?

About the masonry/brick chimney, how does it take BTUs out of the house? I thought lining it would just keep the smoke/exhaust hotter which will help it rise faster and cause less creosote buildup/aid in draft? If a insulated liner aids in draft, it would seem that more heat would be loss with more draft. Damn this stuff is complicated.

another bs post,,from the king of bs.....

lol damn you're in a good mood this morning.

Actually the basement is only under the main part of the house then there are crawl spaces under the kitchen and front room. The basement walls are stone about the size of bowling balls which would hold and radiate heat nicely. I'm sure a wood furnace in the basement would keep my house toasty warm with 1/2 the effort of the 2 wood stoves I have on the main level now. I believe forced air with cold air return from a basement is about the best you can do for fast efficient heating a big old house. But like I said the free standing wood stoves I have in place now would be great for the fringe months or just taking the chill out of the house. More insulation and new windows are in the plan as well. Everyone who visits here loves this old house, they just don't build'em like this anymore.

Hmm, my house is about the same. I have a basement under the kitchen area and crawl space for the rest. The wood furnace sounds like the best option but is the exhaust requirements the same as a wood stove (i.e. chimney needs to extend at least 2' or so above the highest point on the roof?). If it is, that would be a really tall chimney I will have to install.

 

[Marshy]

I'm totally new to this whole wood burning for heat thing so forgive my ignorance. Insulating your house is a DIY thing? Sounds like a huge project. I read a little about it and sounds like my two options are insulating the interior or exterior walls (duh, what else would you insulate Ambull). Anyway, the interior walls sounds a bit easier. The exterior walls would force me to remove all the siding, use one of those platform things that you can stand on, etc. If you had to insulate, would you go interior or exterior?

...

Blow-in insulation. You can rent the blower from your local hardware store and buy the insulation. You have the option of cutting holes in the walls on the outside of your house and blowing it in or from the inside. You can also go up in the attic in the old houses and blown it down into the walls. It is DIY if you have the knowledge or the drive to learn.

 

[Ambull01]

Blow-in insulation. You can rent the blower from your local hardware store and buy the insulation. You have the option of cutting holes in the walls on the outside of your house and blowing it in or from the inside. You can also go up in the attic in the old houses and blown it down into the walls. It is DIY if you have the knowledge or the drive to learn.

Wait a minute, I have to investigate further. Must be a reason everyone that lives in an old Victorian chooses not to use blow in insulation.

Edit: I see now. Some of the older homes have solid wall construction. Hopefully I have a large enough cavity where I can use blow in insulation. If not, I'll have to do the whole interior or exterior insulation which sounds like a lot of work.

 

[olyman]

lol damn you're in a good mood this morning.



.[/QUOTE]
you've got to understand,,where this bs poster is from,,and who it is........

 

[olyman]

Wait a minute, I have to investigate further. Must be a reason everyone that lives in an old Victorian chooses not to use blow in insulation.

Edit: I see now. Some of the older homes have solid wall construction. Hopefully I have a large enough cavity where I can use blow in insulation. If not, I'll have to do the whole interior or exterior insulation which sounds like a lot of work.

when I did mine, years ago, I used a plumbers bit, which looks a lot like a regular holesaw, and went into the attic with it, and went over to the plate, on top of the outside wall studs. drilled a hole,,right in the center, both ways,,and poured Styrofoam beads down th ewalls. it was all I could afford at the time. but the size of hole I bored, you could run a cellouse blow in hose right down to the bottom,,and then pull the hose back up as it fills.......would make a huge difference...

 

[Ambull01]

lol damn you're in a good mood this morning.
you've got to understand,,where this bs poster is from,,and who it is........

I don't know what's going on with the quotes on this site. I think I'm doing something wrong but too stupid to figure out what it is.

I've heard it may be Overclock/Ape something. Never had to opportunity to read Ape's posts though.

when I did mine, years ago, I used a plumbers bit, which looks a lot like a regular holesaw, and went into the attic with it, and went over to the plate, on top of the outside wall studs. drilled a hole,,right in the center, both ways,,and poured Styrofoam beads down th ewalls. it was all I could afford at the time. but the size of hole I bored, you could run a cellouse blow in hose right down to the bottom,,and then pull the hose back up as it fills.......would make a huge difference...

I'll have to check and see if there's a cavity in walls big enough to do that. I'm hoping it's not solid wall construction. If it is I'll just concentrate on insulating the attic and possibly the 3rd floor rooms. The rooms are just used as storage right now. Not sure how to insulate them though. I guess I could pry up all the floor boards and place insulation in the recesses then nail the boards back or do something to the ceiling.

 

[nathon918]

I'm hoping it's not solid wall construction

solid as in brick? if not brick and its not a log cabin, I cant imagine anyone would make solid walls with wood...

 

[Ambull01]

solid as in brick? if not brick and its not a log cabin, I cant imagine anyone would make solid walls with wood...

Yep brick. Again I have to check to ensure what I'm saying is correct though.

 

[Chris-PA]

Yep brick. Again I have to check to ensure what I'm saying is correct though.

The modern expectations of what constitutes a properly heated home (high, constant, even temperatures) are not the same as they were when Victorian homes were built, nor are the insulation or heating systems. Victorian-era homes were really the first to have heating systems at all, but they were not as effective as modern systems and expectations were not the same either. Later in the 20th century it didn't matter how well insulated or sealed a structure was, because you could just throw unlimited amounts of energy into it and heat it anyway.

Trying to make a solid construction structure well insulated without major alterations is tough. We have not bothered with our (even older) home - it is decently sealed and there is insulation in the attics, but we have tried to adjust our expectations of what is really needed in regard to heat. So some rooms are hotter and some rooms are colder, and it varies over time. If you are cold you can always put on something warmer, and usually move to a warmer room. Adjusting expectations is a heck of a lot cheaper.

 

[Ambull01]

The modern expectations of what constitutes a properly heated home (high, constant, even temperatures) are not the same as they were when Victorian homes were built, nor are the insulation or heating systems. Victorian-era homes were really the first to have heating systems at all, but they were not as effective as modern systems and expectations were not the same either. Later in the 20th century it didn't matter how well insulated or sealed a structure was, because you could just throw unlimited amounts of energy into it and heat it anyway.

Trying to make a solid construction structure well insulated without major alterations is tough. We have not bothered with our (even older) home - it is decently sealed and there is insulation in the attics, but we have tried to adjust our expectations of what is really needed in regard to heat. So some rooms are hotter and some rooms are colder, and it varies over time. If you are cold you can always put on something warmer, and usually move to a warmer room. Adjusting expectations is a heck of a lot cheaper.

Totally understand this point. Believe I read something very similar about the whole heating expectations here on this site (may have been one of your previous posts actually).

Even though I'm from Hawaii, I do fairly well in the cold. If I find the walls are solid that will probably mean a No Go for wall insulation.

The majority of the rooms downstairs stay around 50 degrees. That's a bit lower than ideal for me. I want it at least in the low to mid 60s. I will keep researching and experimenting until I reach that magical number.