proper pruning 75' tulip

[treeseer]

I'm sorry Murph but your way off on this.

You bashed the cutting of some lower limbs becuase they were 6in.. It was totally clear that the phone and cable lines ran right across those cuts.

Would you rather have the whole tree removed, or only those limbs?

Neither--that's a bogus choice. Phone and tv are low voltage and typically do not get cleared by utilities here. If the 6" branch was alive, what risk did it pose to those lines?

 

[mikegar]

Neither--that's a bogus choice. Phone and tv are low voltage and typically do not get cleared by utilities here. If the 6" branch was alive, what risk did it pose to those lines?

Id also like to add they could have been moved either up or down relatively easy. Id have to agree with murph on this one, its best to cut smaller. Although I find what the municipal guy had to say to be true as well. Often times we get trees that aren't ideal and we have to sometimes decide which is the lesser of the 2 evils, and which fits in with future treatment of the tree.

 

[mikegar]

After reading the whole thread it seems some are confusing wound closure and compartmentalization.

 

[treemandan]

After reading the whole thread it seems some are confusing wound closure and compartmentalization.

I noticed that as well.

 

[treeseer]

I noticed that as well.

Wound closure is part of Wall 4 of compartmentalization, right?

So where is the confusion? :msp_confused:

 

[Ed Roland]

Wound closure is part of Wall 4 of compartmentalization, right?

So where is the confusion? :msp_confused:

Are you being sarcastic? :biggrin: There remains much confusion whether callus and or subsequent woundwood is a part of wall 4.

 

[mikegar]

Wound closure is a PART of healing but is not the whole thing. Just because the wound closes doesn't always mean the wound compartmentalized.

 

[mikegar]

Refering back to modern arboriculture pg75. Wall 4 is a boundry that seperates the wood present at time of wounding from new wood that continues to form.

 

[Ed Roland]

Refering back to modern arboriculture pg75. Wall 4 is a boundry that seperates the wood present at time of wounding from new wood that continues to form.

:msp_thumbup:

Shigo used "barrier zone" and "wall 4" interchangeably in his work. Many think of the "barrier zone" as being existing wood chemically altered to resist decay and "wall 4" being a physical anotomical barrier to decay layed down over the wound in subsequent growth increments. No callus/wound wood then no wall 4 or closure = wall 4. Some may believe a mix of the two or none of the above. All should aim for proper pruning cuts and let the tree sweat the myriad details of when and where it compartmentalizes.

So, my jest earlier aimed @ Guy was a wink and a nod toward the likelihood that half the participants in this thread may believe wall 4 to be a chemical barrier zone inside the tree @ time of wounding and the other half may believe wall 4 to be located inside the callus/wound wood material as it grows over the wound.

I'm comfortable with my own understandings but many arborist remain confused about this aspect of the CODIT model.

 

[pdqdl]

Yeah sounds a little hairy try that on row with a 2wd tractor lol we got some steep chit too! That old long was on two wheels more than one the whole time we had it. Never rolled it but was saved a time or two by the timberline Alls I can say is I taint skeered

Not to hijack a thread, but I think Ed just about killed this one with that last post...

I was running 2wd tractor some years ago on a hill so steep, the battery acid poured out the top vent and ruined my 2 day old boots! (right foot only) I was po'ed, 'cause it hit the threads hard enough to completely unstitch the sole from the uppers, and I was half-way barefoot before I could drive back to the truck to rinse my boot off. So I can tell you about 2wd tractors on hills, too!

 

[treeseer]

... half the participants in this thread may believe wall 4 to be a chemical barrier zone inside the tree @ time of wounding and the other half may believe wall 4 to be located inside the callus/wound wood material as it grows over the wound. ...

How about both?

Is there a practical purpose in splitting this particular hair?

That's what's confusing me the most. :help:

 

[ropensaddle]

Not to hijack a thread, but I think Ed just about killed this one with that last post...

I was running 2wd tractor some years ago on a hill so steep, the battery acid poured out the top vent and ruined my 2 day old boots! (right foot only) I was po'ed, 'cause it hit the threads hard enough to completely unstitch the sole from the uppers, and I was half-way barefoot before I could drive back to the truck to rinse my boot off. So I can tell you about 2wd tractors on hills, too!

Lmfao well once I had to ford the river to the otherside half way into the river I found it were not as shallow as it appeared I was soaked and a gator swam in the cab with me, that sheered me

 

[beastmaster]

:msp_thumbup:

Shigo used "barrier zone" and "wall 4" interchangeably in his work. Many think of the "barrier zone" as being existing wood chemically altered to resist decay and "wall 4" being a physical anotomical barrier to decay layed down over the wound in subsequent growth increments. No callus/wound wood then no wall 4 or closure = wall 4. Some may believe a mix of the two or none of the above. All should aim for proper pruning cuts and let the tree sweat the myriad details of when and where it compartmentalizes.

So, my jest earlier aimed @ Guy was a wink and a nod toward the likelihood that half the participants in this thread may believe wall 4 to be a chemical barrier zone inside the tree @ time of wounding and the other half may believe wall 4 to be located inside the callus/wound wood material as it grows over the wound.

I'm comfortable with my own understandings but many arborist remain confused about this aspect of the CODIT model.

I am always half confused, But in this case I think we are discussing two different things. We have the small stubs left on some end cuts, and bigger stubs left to protect the trunk from decay. Apple and oranges.
It been to long sense Iv'e read any of Shigo's books, but I sure it was there I read how flush cuts would quickly callus over, but still allow some problem with the tree that cutting at a branch collar prevented. Could someone refresh my memory?

 

[rebelman]

exactly. imo Murph's "proper pruning" is better only compared with flush cuts. I have seen this style cause widespread branch rot and death that would not have happened with a more natural, standard, collar cut proper pruning. I think owners of shiny new bucket trucks try 2 find ways 2 be better than climbers who do what the truly needs, not what their bucket trucks can reach. Casting doubt on collar cuts is wrong. And I think rope is the only one that mentioned mulch. Roots hold trees up. Seer rocks. My 2 cents. Peace.

 

[lxt]

Please explain that way of thinking.. there needs to be some accountability for improper pruning.. To the extent this is a self-regulated industry, how is that supposed to work if we all keep our mouths shut about the atrocious pruning we see.. When a customer tells me she has gotten a cheaper price.. I ask "from whom"?.. I'll be honest with her if I know the comapny's work.. If it is Rick and the job involves pruning, I'll recommend strongly against that.. if it is a company that does good work, I'll be honest about that too and assure her that I think they'll do a nice job and that is a good price etc..

I gotta agree with ya on some of this post, However.....what if a competitor company was bidding against you & strongly recommended not to use your service?.........I mean you posted a video of a bad take down which landed into another tree & you admit to having left stubs in the tulip prune, drop trees on to roads/driveways on purpose, admit to showing off, etc......So what makes your work so Great that you can bash another?

Fact is: who are you or any of us to say if anothers work is good or bad, Just because it does`nt meet your specs maybe thats what the home owners wanted!!!! you wanna self regulate? be careful keemo sabee........there may be competitors who think your work is sub par!!!

Ropes....your posts nail it in regards to Murph & the "flurry" of suckers gonna sprout out from those stubs........Now we see all the debate from those who would talk about proper cuts & methodology............Maybe the title shoulda been: pruning a Tulip instead of "proper pruning" or the tulip stub over? Proper...............Proper to who?


LXT...............

 

[jefflovstrom]

I gotta agree with ya on some of this post, However.....what if a competitor company was bidding against you & strongly recommended not to use your service?.........I mean you posted a video of a bad take down which landed into another tree & you admit to having left stubs in the tulip prune, drop trees on to roads/driveways on purpose, admit to showing off, etc......So what makes your work so Great that you can bash another?

Fact is: who are you or any of us to say if anothers work is good or bad, Just because it does`nt meet your specs maybe thats what the home owners wanted!!!! you wanna self regulate? be careful keemo sabee........there may be competitors who think your work is sub par!!!

Ropes....your posts nail it in regards to Murph & the "flurry" of suckers gonna sprout out from those stubs........Now we see all the debate from those who would talk about proper cuts & methodology............Maybe the title shoulda been: pruning a Tulip instead of "proper pruning" or the tulip stub over? Proper...............Proper to who?


LXT...............

One for each of ya!

Jeff

 

[lxt]

Jeff, you Dapper looking ole devil!!


LXT..........

 

[Toddppm]

Haven't hardly ever been over there but just went and read at buzzed. Between this thread and that one it's the most entertainment on the boards since well a troll with a slip scoop showed up.

 

[murphy4trees]

exactly. imo Murph's "proper pruning" is better only compared with flush cuts. I have seen this style cause widespread branch rot and death that would not have happened with a more natural, standard, collar cut proper pruning................. Seer rocks. My 2 cents. Peace.

That's garbage... no way are the stubs on those little cuts going to cause widespread anything.. if you think the seer rocks.. better pay some attention to his statement.... "Murph's little "stubs" will not be noticeable in a few years, but heartrot is forever."

If Guy had a problem with the job, I would take that seriously... its good to see some fairly intelligent debate here at AS. To the extent that this video spurs thought and intelligent discussion, it is doing its job.. The rest of you can KMA

 

[murphy4trees]

Ropes....your posts nail it in regards to Murph & the "flurry" of suckers gonna sprout out from those stubs........

LXT...............

Small stubs like that are almost guarenteed to die, not sucker, especially on tulip.. Please stop acting like you know what you're talking about!