Question....

[54bogger]

I'd be pissed if I was the customer. Taking advantage of somebody that doesn't know better is not cool. They asked if it was "green" and you delivered it full well knowing it was "not seasoned".

An honest firewood seller will tell people when it was split and let them make up their mind from that information.

The rain you mention had nothing to do with why that firewood would not burn.

I told them the truth and that they would have to wait until I could split more. It's odd nobody else had trouble. Are you saying I'm not honest?
This is the first year that I've sold firewood, I was told by a logger friend that there was not a need to split all the wood I had at one time as bucked blocks would dry out. I'm asking is that wrong what I was told? I'm not out to 'scam' or 'cheat' anyone.

 

[c5rulz]

I told them the truth and that they would have to wait until I could split more. It's odd nobody else had trouble. Are you saying I'm not honest?

What would waiting "to split more" accomplish. It would be just more green wood.

I quote your own words:


I should have known something wasn't right when the man's wife first called and asked did I have seasoned firewood.
She said they bought some that was green and would not burn. I have come to the conclusion that this man has no experience with 'building' a fire.
Anyone else run into this before?


They asked if the wood was green, you know it was and sold it to them anyway. Now blaming them for "Not knowing how to build a fire". That is just sad.

Well perhaps I am not experienced either, just how do you go about burning green wood in a stove and having good results? I am not questioning your honesty, I think that has already been demonstrated.

 

[bear1998]

Seems kinda simple...if you want to sell firewood...explain to the customer this is what I have...seasoned 6 months....1 year...1.5 etc. and of course what kind of wood it is. You can't blame a customer for asking cause there so many people selling seasoned wood that isn't n there people selling true seasoned wood n still get a raft of chit cause people don't what there doing as far as burning wood.
From reading sellers problems...I'm glad I have a better understanding of how wood should be and thats contributed by most of you fine folks.....yust sayin.

 

[54bogger]

Did you read my previous post or are you just wanting to argue? I was told it would be fine. Are you saying sitting blocked for 13 months that it will still be green? I told them this exact thing, that it had been cut into blocks 13 months ago. I'm trying to learn not argue.

 

[rarefish383]

You were honest enough to tell us that the wood was freshly split, and had been bucked into 16" rounds for over a year. So, yes you were honest with us, no your wood wasn't seasoned. Wood really does't start to dry out until it's split. I've had Red Oak logs and rounds sit for 2 years and it's still as wet inside as the day it was cut. I have several 30" Red Oak logs I'm saving to mill that are over 1 year old and the bark is still tight, Joe.

 

[panolo]

Did you read my previous post or are you just wanting to argue? I was told it would be fine. Are you saying sitting blocked for 13 months that it will still be green? I told them this exact thing, that it had been cut into blocks 13 months ago. I'm trying to learn not argue.

Did you moisture meter it? I had some red oak that was cut to 22" lengths and not split from this spring and it still read in the 30's for moisture.

 

[54bogger]

If I am wrong then I'm wrong, live and learn. But after apologizing to the gentleman on the phone he cussed me and called me a 'hill billy mother fuc$%#@'.
That was not to nice but when he went further and threatened me I gave him my home address twice in case he wanted to carry out his threat. But like most people these days they choose to act tuff over a phone,computer,etc, but have no heart. I apologized, but I won't be run over.

 

[54bogger]

You were honest enough to tell us that the wood was freshly split, and had been bucked into 16" rounds for over a year. So, yes you were honest with us, no your wood wasn't seasoned. Wood really does't start to dry out until it's split. I've had Red Oak logs and rounds sit for 2 years and it's still as wet inside as the day it was cut. I have several 30" Red Oak logs I'm saving to mill that are over 1 year old and the bark is still tight, Joe.

Ok I'll say it AGAIN, I told them EXACTLY what I just told y'all. They called sunday and I told them that I would not have anymore SPLIT until Tuesday. They knew what all of you know.

Thank you for answering my question, apparently I was told wrong. I won't make that same mistake again.

 

[c5rulz]

Did you read my previous post or are you just wanting to argue? I was told it would be fine. Are you saying sitting blocked for 13 months that it will still be green? I'm trying to learn not argue.

OK, I apologize,

When people buy firewood from me if they haven't bought wood by the cord I give them a little speech called Firewood 101.

1. A cord is a legal definition of wood. it's 4x4x8'. This is wood cut in 16" lengths 3 rows deep which amount to 128 cubic foot, but grows to 180-190 cubic feet when loose tossed, i.e. a truck or trailer load.
2. If you wonder if wood is seasoned check for the following:
a. feel, the heft
b. color
c. wood that is dry will have a "ring" to it when to pieces are hit together, if it is a dull thud, the wood is green
3. I seldom deliver, the customer will hold the tape when it is measured off the pile. I stack the pile 4' 4" high when green, through drying and settling it will be 4' when sold.


Bark is on trees for a reason and that is to keep moisture in. Rounds will only dry 1" per year from the end grain. After splitting wood will dry through the exposed side grain. The size of the split thickness, sun and wind along with time are the variables. I can get wood to 20% moisture by Nov. when it is split in November of the previous year to March of the current year. However the spot gets full sun, lots of wind, is on pallets and I split in uniform thin planks rather than wedge shapes so it dries faster.

This pic was taken in October, it's drying down well:

 

[54bogger]

Did you moisture meter it? I had some red oak that was cut to 22" lengths and not split from this spring and it still read in the 30's for moisture.

No, as a matter of fact I've never even seen a 'moisture meter'. I'm learning something new by coming to this site, Thanks.

 

[JeffHK454]

If I am wrong then I'm wrong, live and learn. But after apologizing to the gentleman on the phone he cussed me and called me a 'hill billy mother fuc$%#@'.
That was not to nice but when he went further and threatened me I gave him my home address twice in case he wanted to carry out his threat. But like most people these days they choose to act tuff over a phone,computer,etc, but have no heart. I apologized, but I want be run over.

If you genuinely thought fresh split , year old rounds were seasoned enough then chalk it up as a year of learning...you might need to swallow your pride and apologize..even to the jackkass.

 

[54bogger]

No, as a matter of fact I've never even seen a 'moisture meter'. I'm learning something new by coming to this site, Thanks.

OK, I apologize,

When people buy firewood from me if they haven't bought wood by the cord I give them a little speech called Firewood 101.

1. A cord is a legal definition of wood. it's 4x4x8'. This is wood cut in 16" lengths 3 rows deep which amount to 128 cubic foot, but grows to 180-190 cubic feet when loose tossed, i.e. a truck or trailer load.
2. If you wonder if wood is seasoned check for the following:
a. feel, the heft
b. color
c. wood that is dry will have a "ring" to it when to pieces are hit together, if it is a dull thud, the wood is green
3. I seldom deliver, the customer will hold the tape when it is measured off the pile. I stack the pile 4' 4" high when green, through drying and settling it will be 4' when sold.


Bark is on trees for a reason and that is to keep moisture in. Rounds will only dry 1" per year from the end grain. After splitting wood will dry through the exposed side grain. The size of the split thickness, sun and wind along with time are the variables. I can get wood to 20% moisture by Nov. when it is split in November of the previous year to March of the current year. However the spot gets full sun, lots of wind, is on pallets and I split in uniform thin planks rather than wedge shapes so it dries faster.

This pic was taken in October, it's drying down well:

That helps a lot, I do appreciate that post. I did not know that blocked wood would only dry a inch per year! I was indeed told WRONG.
I want people to be pleased with the wood they get, thanks again for the advice.

 

[rarefish383]

If you tried to make good with the customer that's all you can do. I just reread the whole thread. I had missed the post where you asked advice on the seasoning. Your logger buddy gave you bumb advice. Most wood pretty much takes a full year, cut, split, and stacked to season. Red Oak around me can take longer. Dead standing Oak with no bark that looks dry as a base ball bat, still needs a year. Here's why, the short version. When wood burns the moisture in it turns to a vapor. It takes a real hot fire to keep the chimney hot enough to keep that moisture in a vapor. The more moisture in the wood, the more in the vapor.If the chimney cools off half way up and the vapor starts to turn back to liquid, it sticks to the cooler walls of the chimney and builds up, creating creosote, that is highly flammable, and can and will cause chimney fires. So, nowadays the wood needs to be much dryer than it did 30 years ago when most people still used fire places. That's the quickie version, it is a little more complicated than that, especially with all the new stoves, Joe.

 

[JeffHK454]

That helps a lot, I do appreciate that post. I did not know that blocked wood would only dry a inch per year! I was indeed told WRONG.
I want people to be pleased with the wood they get, thanks again for the advice.

Like I said in my first reply, I've had 3 year old Red Oak that felt damp to the touch when split....it still had that sweet/stinky Oak smell that you get when bucking up green logs.

 

[panolo]

No, as a matter of fact I've never even seen a 'moisture meter'. I'm learning something new by coming to this site, Thanks.

They are pretty cheap on amazon. Nice tool to have and if you have nice dry wood it wouldn't be a bad idea to split a split at a customers house and show them how dry it is.

 

[old guy]

I've burned wood for 50 years, by your definition I guess I have never seasoned any wood unless it was cut green. If it was standing dead it was good firewood and cut up and throwed in the stove.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I encourage customers to come and look at what they will be getting before they commit to buying. Most take me up on it and buy on the spot. Some bring moisture meters and we split a few pieces of seasoned to get several readings. A few, buying fire pit wood could care less. Everyone has had bad experiences, both buyers and sellers. With them stopping by they are more involved, and not just getting something dropped off in the driveway and hoping for the best.
And, I've sold wood where the middle row of a three row rack was wet and heavy half way down.
So I changed the way I do things, eliminating those racks, cleared an acre wood lot, and brought in some gravel. The sun and air have been a huge plus for seasoning. It still takes time, and I have to cut a year ahead, and split small. I still tell my customers Oak takes two years to season completely. I've had a few customers say if it is not seasoned two years old they don't want it. Good luck finding that.
With the Posch system the wood is very consistent in seasoning throughout and quantity per pallet. The one complaint I get is that I split to small for those that actually heat with wood. Bigger splits are nice (4" x 6") but take much longer to season. I split our own wood bigger but it is in a wood shed for two years. Big difference.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

I think a lot has been accomplished as a result of this matter. The end result is you are now a better business man because of what happend, how it happened, why it happened, and what you did as a result. I think you have done all you can for the customer...you made amends, he is still a jerk...move on.

Harbor Freight sells a very inexpensive and accurate MM. I think it goes for $12 and is powered by watch batteries. I think you should buy a couple of them. Keep one in your truck etc. Use them to learn how your logs season over time and use them to prove to the customer their purchase is dry.

From my experience the sooner you get your rounds split and stacked off the ground the better it is for everything.

Don't let this whole situation get you down or chase you out of the business. Learn from it and improve your process. Keep it up!

 

[lknchoppers]

You can go to Lowes and get a moisture meter. The General brand of moisture meter costs about $30, is pretty good and uses standard 9 volt batteries. If you go online and try to buy the cheapest moisture meter be careful, they usually take some odd battery that is hard to find and very expensive. Once you get one you need to learn how to use it properly. To get an accurate measurement you will need to measure on a fresh split, with the grain. Remember you are trying to take a measurement of the moisture content inside the firewood so measuring the ends or the outside of the wood is meaningless. The lower the moisture content the better. For fireplaces and fire pits it's best to have firewood that is 25% moisture content or less. Newer EPA Woodstoves require dryer firewood less than 20% , 15% would be ideal. Oak takes very long to dry but that is what everyone wants around me. If I split oak rounds now they will be around 20% to 25% moisture content this time next year if they are stacked or left in small piles exposed to direct sun and wind. Everyone has to start somewhere and it takes time to develop a system to process your firewood for selling it. We are already into the firewood season, so if you want to have some firewood to sell for this year, your best bet would be to look for some standing dead trees and cut those, spilt them and take some readings with the moisture meter to see how they will burn. good Luck.

 

[54bogger]

UPDATE;

After reading all of the posts here I realized I was wrong about the wood being seasoned. So I called the gentleman and explained to him why I thought the wood was seasoned and that I was wrong. I apologized again and gave him his money back ($80.00) and offered to let him keep the wood also.
He said since he couldn't burn it that he would like me to get it out of his garage, so when he calls today I will pick it up and start a new stack for NEXT year.
I want to thank all of you gentlemen for helping me to understand my mistake, I guess the ol' saying is true...''Your never to old to learn''.