Questions: Ascending With One Line

[canopyboy]

I got this idea from another thread, it works VERY well: Use the rope in the tree to raise a false crotch, attached to a second rope.

Take that rope running wildly through the tree branches, tie one end to an anchor point of some sort (I use a friction saver, others attach to a pulley). Run your doubled "old school" rope through the false crotch and then pull it up the tree to the height you plan on rising to. You now have a single, uninterrupted run of the doubled rope attached high in the tree. It has the added benefit of being lower friction and being possibly safer, since the climber can be lowered out of the tree from the ground. If your TIP breaks off, the single rope will undoubtedly still be caught by branches beneath it, although there is still the risk of some numskull on the ground cutting or untying your rope.

There is some excellent advice on this topic in this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=81614&highlight=srt

This is a very good way to get in the tree for an old school climber like myself. I just don't ever see myself going SRT, and I even have most of the toys for it.

:agree2: +1

I've been playing with SRT and like it For long ascents, but once I get up I'll usually set a DRT line to work around the tree with. A false crotch saves you the trouble, and there's no new technique to learn or gear to buy.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Adjustable False Crotch

I got this idea from another thread, it works VERY well: Use the rope in the tree to raise a false crotch, attached to a second rope.

Take that rope running wildly through the tree branches, tie one end to an anchor point of some sort (I use a friction saver, others attach to a pulley). Run your doubled "old school" rope through the false crotch and then pull it up the tree to the height you plan on rising to. You now have a single, uninterrupted run of the doubled rope attached high in the tree. It has the added benefit of being lower friction and being possibly safer, since the climber can be lowered out of the tree from the ground. If your TIP breaks off, the single rope will undoubtedly still be caught by branches beneath it, although there is still the risk of some numskull on the ground cutting or untying your rope.

:agree2:Good catch pdqdl! What you're describing is turning a "rope running wildly" into an Adjustable False Crotch, right?
That's got to be a lot faster than trying to isolate a single branch with multiple shots. Assuming the anchor line is running over a good branch and all the 'included' branches are OK, it's a great idea.

Just a thought: To lessen the "risk of some numskull on the ground cutting or untying your rope", you could re-tie off your 'anchor' line once you get high enough to be out of "numskull" reach.

 

[pdqdl]

Yep! You got the idea right.

I would like to say that I invented the idea, but I didn't. I'm a pretty good parrot though; I can repeat what others here at AS have told me.

 

[treesandsurf]

Don't forget you can also pull a pulley connected to your anchored line up the tree that has your regular DdRT setup installed. This way you don't have to isolate the limb but can still use your traditional setup.

jp

 

[outofmytree]

Just a thought: To lessen the "risk of some numskull on the ground cutting or untying your rope", you could re-tie off your 'anchor' line once you get high enough to be out of "numskull" reach.

If only I had said that first....

Once I get to the pulley location, I tie in, switch the pulley to a sling or cambium saver and drop the original single line so it cant be cut.

Oh wait I did.

 

[treemandan]

I'm trying to save time and seeing the guys take so much time and energy getting into the tops kills me. I was just thinking there's a better way, hence why I'm here asking you guys for advice.

Saw a guy body thrusting with a Blake's hitch and thought... that's too much work. LOL!

If you think that kills ya you should try climbing up one end of the rope( with some nut " rooting" you on). What kind of class act you running anyway? STanding around ? Watching other people work? ... at least that is what they seem like they are trying to do.
Anyway I have to go now, maybe we can continue this conversation later as I think there is more than meets the eye here.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

If only I had said that first....

Once I get to the pulley location, I tie in, switch the pulley to a sling or cambium saver and drop the original single line so it cant be cut.

Oh wait I did.

Sorry, outofmytree, I wasn't trying to step on your idea. Your idea is good but I was actually trying to suggest a different idea - just an additional option.

I'm suggesting to KEEP the anchor line & Adjustable False Crotch. As soon as you get off the ground, at the FIRST available point, re-tie the anchor point so it's safely out of reach. Then continue climbing and trimming (whatever). That way the anchor is fairly safe from accidental damage during the entire climb. Yet, the new anchor point is still low enough that a groundie could make a short climb (or ladder) to it if necessary so, as pdqdl says:

the climber can be lowered out of the tree from the ground.

Adjustable False Crotches are GREAT. I think pdqdl's idea of turning a "rope running wildly" into one is a great idea like "making lemonade out of a lemon." So, in addition to your good idea, I was offering just another way to lower the risks associated with the anchor point.
- no offense intended.

 

[pdqdl]

The problem I see with re-tying out of numskull range is that it eliminates the advantage of being able to be lowered if injured, and it forces you to re-rig in order to get out of the tree.

You see, once you come out of the tree, you will have to climb back up to get your false crotch liberated.

If it's easy to re-rig as you come down: go for it!

 

[tree MDS]

If you think that kills ya you should try climbing up one end of the rope( with some nut " rooting" you on). What kind of class act you running anyway? STanding around ? Watching other people work? ... at least that is what they seem like they are trying to do.
Anyway I have to go now, maybe we can continue this conversation later as I think there is more than meets the eye here.

Right! whats up wit that?? What ya thinkin dan-o, another land lover??

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

The problem I see with re-tying out of numskull range is that it eliminates the advantage of being able to be lowered if injured, and it forces you to re-rig in order to get out of the tree.

You see, once you come out of the tree, you will have to climb back up to get your false crotch liberated.

If it's easy to re-rig as you come down: go for it!

Good point. Didn't cover the descent, did I? I was thinking along the lines leaving the orginal anchor point but adding a sling around a low limb (or stem) with a biner in a bowline-on-a-bite (or some knot you like) to re-secure the anchor line. Then, on the way down, unhook it.

It could be low enough for a groundie to ladder to it if you needed to be lowered.

Any way, I liked your idea and just trying to think of ways to keep your life in your own hands.

Numbskulls are almost as terrifying as politicians ...

 

[pdqdl]

I personally fear the numskulls more than an injury in the tree. I have severe reservations about letting my guys anywhere near my lifeline.

Instead of tying it off higher, I go around and around the tree, spiraling down the trunk if possible, then tie off. That way there will be friction on the rope (good for lowering a climber, too) in case they try to kill me by accident.


...or not so accidentally? :jawdrop:

 

[outofmytree]

I ran this idea past my leading hand who is our second climber and we worked out that this would be a really quick entry and exit strategy for deadwooding large (plus 75ft) eucs. Any pruning job that you use a hand saw for would be less likely to have rope cutting potential. I have a job I am tendering for with 30 plus eucs of this size where no chainsaw noise will be a big asset. Posting pics if we get it.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Can always pick up one of those old human cannonball rigs from a retired carny. Better get a lot of practice first before you go launching yourself into the tree though!

 

[Tree Pig]

Can always pick up one of those old human cannonball rigs from a retired carny. Better get a lot of practice first before you go launching yourself into the tree though!

Maybe you could make a REALLY BIG BIG SHOT.Human Big Shot

 

[kevin bingham]

climbing SRT is much simpler and ergonomic than dDRT. Footlocking a single line is easier than footlocking a double line as well as the rope is easier to get a purchase on with your feet. Acenders are a worthwhile investment.

I have not climbed double rope in months and have not bothered to isolate a limb in months either. What a PIA. Friction savers and pulleys are also pains. I am convinced that using a single line in the tree is the way to go. it is so much better for many reasons. Here is a system that I came up with for working a tree single line that is not incredibly gear intensive. Hope it helps. A pantin is the main acender that I would invest in. they are only like $40-$50. All acenders, if economics are an issue, can be subsituted with prussic cord. acenders are only nice because they have big handles to hold on to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXwrXgN0qw

 

[outofmytree]

climbing SRT is much simpler and ergonomic than dDRT. Footlocking a single line is easier than footlocking a double line as well as the rope is easier to get a purchase on with your feet. Acenders are a worthwhile investment.

I have not climbed double rope in months and have not bothered to isolate a limb in months either. What a PIA. Friction savers and pulleys are also pains. I am convinced that using a single line in the tree is the way to go. it is so much better for many reasons. Here is a system that I came up with for working a tree single line that is not incredibly gear intensive. Hope it helps. A pantin is the main acender that I would invest in. they are only like $40-$50. All acenders, if economics are an issue, can be subsituted with prussic cord. acenders are only nice because they have big handles to hold on to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXwrXgN0qw

Nice video Kevin. I need to watch it a few more times to steal as many of your ideas as possible!

A quick question. Is this system something you have used ascending with saw and accessory gear in tow? I ask because the obvious benefit of drt is the 2:1 advantage and the reduced energy expended to achieve lift.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

climbing SRT is much simpler and ergonomic than dDRT. Footlocking a single line is easier than footlocking a double line as well as the rope is easier to get a purchase on with your feet. Acenders are a worthwhile investment.

I have not climbed double rope in months and have not bothered to isolate a limb in months either. What a PIA. Friction savers and pulleys are also pains. I am convinced that using a single line in the tree is the way to go. it is so much better for many reasons. Here is a system that I came up with for working a tree single line that is not incredibly gear intensive. Hope it helps. A pantin is the main acender that I would invest in. they are only like $40-$50. All acenders, if economics are an issue, can be subsituted with prussic cord. acenders are only nice because they have big handles to hold on to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXwrXgN0qw

Way cool system! Would you post some closeup pix of your rig, please?

 

[canopyboy]

A quick question. Is this system something you have used ascending with saw and accessory gear in tow? I ask because the obvious benefit of drt is the 2:1 advantage and the reduced energy expended to achieve lift.

Actually, climbing SRT uses less energy. While the DRT has a 2:1 mechanical advantage, you are also climbing twice as much rope. So even in a a perfect (frictionless) system, you exert 1/2 the force twice as often and use the same amount of energy. Without friction, the amount of energy is technically only a function of height and mass (potential energy). Now with DRT you DO HAVE FRICTION (heat energy) generated. So DRT is actually a less efficient system that uses more energy by the time you get to the same height.

I haven't figured out how to move around the tree using SRT yet like Kevin (although it's on the list), but I do use it for longer ascents before setting a DRT system to use for moving around the canopy with. You won't believe how fast and easy you can get up into a 60' canopy or higher. And not having to isolate a branch makes rigging your line a breeze.

 

[outofmytree]

Actually, climbing SRT uses less energy. While the DRT has a 2:1 mechanical advantage, you are also climbing twice as much rope. So even in a a perfect (frictionless) system, you exert 1/2 the force twice as often and use the same amount of energy. Without friction, the amount of energy is technically only a function of height and mass (potential energy). Now with DRT you DO HAVE FRICTION (heat energy) generated. So DRT is actually a less efficient system that uses more energy by the time you get to the same height.

I haven't figured out how to move around the tree using SRT yet like Kevin (although it's on the list), but I do use it for longer ascents before setting a DRT system to use for moving around the canopy with. You won't believe how fast and easy you can get up into a 60' canopy or higher. And not having to isolate a branch makes rigging your line a breeze.

I can see how that would be in a rapid vertical rope ascent like footlocking which is really srt even when on a doulbled rope over a crotch. What I meant was more about walking up the trunk as you do on excurrant trees. I have so little srt experience that it is hard for me to visualise any shortcomings this system may have, but I am keen to see more.

Way cool system! Would you post some closeup pix of your rig, please?

:agree2: Close ups please.

 

[Sc0]

After looking at a few youtube video's it seems that rockclimbers/cavers don't use backups to their mechanical ascenders when going up SRT?