that rig will kill someone eventually. funny tho. good ol' necksnapping fun
Questions: Ascending With One Line
- Thread starter StihlRockin'
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that rig will kill someone eventually. funny tho. good ol' necksnapping fun
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
I watched you vid over on the other site Kevin. Way cool!
I have recently discovered the advantages of using ascenders for DRT. Much easier to ascend than foot locking or hip thrusting. Foot locking is hard on me due to an old foot injury. I can ascend very fast with my CMI foot ascender and one hand ascender. One thing I have learned though is you have to be careful climbing around and working with the foot ascender on. If your not careful you can scar the tree up with it. I'm working on putting together the rest of my outfit for SRT this week. I am reading my book and studying on which way I want to go. All I need is a croll, foot strap and cows tail. I'm wondering if I should buy an adjustable foot strap or just buy some cordage and make my own prussic and cows tail.
I have recently discovered the advantages of using ascenders for DRT. Much easier to ascend than foot locking or hip thrusting. Foot locking is hard on me due to an old foot injury. I can ascend very fast with my CMI foot ascender and one hand ascender. One thing I have learned though is you have to be careful climbing around and working with the foot ascender on. If your not careful you can scar the tree up with it. I'm working on putting together the rest of my outfit for SRT this week. I am reading my book and studying on which way I want to go. All I need is a croll, foot strap and cows tail. I'm wondering if I should buy an adjustable foot strap or just buy some cordage and make my own prussic and cows tail.
SINGLE-JACK
ArboristSite Guru
Interesting comment - what danger(s) do you see in "that rig."
whiplash and equipment that isnt inspected regularly by the idiots using it.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think I'd have to give a go! 
I think I'd have to give a go!
alas, i probably would too. only thing i'd recommend would be to have the rider strapped in a chair with a helmet. i'd also rather have the poles considerably higher and be pulled straight down so that you could never reach the ground again
SINGLE-JACK
ArboristSite Guru
Yeah! That's what I was looking for!
Lots of possibilities ...opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:
Full body contact pruning.
Horizontal shots for Standing Dead Stem Removal
And a new passtime - Groundie Tossing.
:wave:
I think I'd have to give a go!
:agree2:
Lots of possibilities ...
opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:Full body contact pruning.
Horizontal shots for Standing Dead Stem Removal
And a new passtime - Groundie Tossing.
:wave:
Treetom
ArboristSite Guru
Sometimes can shoot at lower limb, get it there, pull hard to make bag backflip over to another limb, can even walk up the stairs like that several tiers.
It is all the same amount of work total either way, except for the friction efficiency loss of DdRT, and ergonmics. Pantin is also good for helping preset rig, and even then can be used to give 1xBodyWeight + 2xEffort to help pretighten rig or do all by self. the effort inlut can be arm or leg, depending on which is moving and which is statically acting as equal and opposite response to other. the whole trick is to place pantin on 1 side of rig (control side) and hand pull on load side.... Now you can't pick up on load side, without also making yourself heavier on control side; thuis givng 2xEffort (less friction).
If you can't flex limb/input distance; go higher up line, so these forces then can be sued to stretch elasticity in line..
It is all the same amount of work total either way, except for the friction efficiency loss of DdRT, and ergonmics. Pantin is also good for helping preset rig, and even then can be used to give 1xBodyWeight + 2xEffort to help pretighten rig or do all by self. the effort inlut can be arm or leg, depending on which is moving and which is statically acting as equal and opposite response to other. the whole trick is to place pantin on 1 side of rig (control side) and hand pull on load side.... Now you can't pick up on load side, without also making yourself heavier on control side; thuis givng 2xEffort (less friction).
If you can't flex limb/input distance; go higher up line, so these forces then can be sued to stretch elasticity in line..
SINGLE-JACK
ArboristSite Guru
Like the "walk up the stairs" bit.
Got it, all but the last line - sorry. Can you elaborate, please?
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It should say : "then can be used to stretch elasticity in line" (sorry lysdexic u and s ed.)
For this to really work; you should be able to lift the branch some. In this way you could exert distance on it, to empower it into the equation this way. Notice, that if you can't input distance/lift on it with this; it is both a) you are pulling on the load as an anchor, not empowered piece and b)all the force is going into stretching the rope only.
The rope has 1xBodyWeight + 1xEffort on it to preload/stretch, until the hand on load side, then add another unit of Effort, for the 1xWeight + 2xEffort from that point downward. So, go higher to give more of this fuller stretch force on more of the rope(below your hand), when can't "impress" the limb. And maybe do same after you have "impressed" the limb with upward or sidewards force.
Also note, that we can tweak a lil more potential from the 2xEffort part, by pulling up on limb at stiff point, at a farther out position than the hitch point (and likewise pulling up closer to crotch would give drop in force potential). But, then also, all ways some friction loss on support, even if pulley.
There is a lil'more, as it goes into having 2 forces maximized to work, impact and leverage; how the friction in some ranges can help the preloading, even doing all this into a round turn(high friction) to then leverage. Then laying the load slowly into the line to preload further, sometimes even make limb fold some towards left in a fake out, just to automate more line tension built to then pull limb around right more powerfully(and with that pull force a stronger hinge in equal/opposite response too). Anyway climber position can be key to help tighten, or even self tighten etc. The opposite of sitting on a limb as it is being rigged, is pulling on the control side (and or pulling up on limb)!
For this to really work; you should be able to lift the branch some. In this way you could exert distance on it, to empower it into the equation this way. Notice, that if you can't input distance/lift on it with this; it is both a) you are pulling on the load as an anchor, not empowered piece and b)all the force is going into stretching the rope only.
The rope has 1xBodyWeight + 1xEffort on it to preload/stretch, until the hand on load side, then add another unit of Effort, for the 1xWeight + 2xEffort from that point downward. So, go higher to give more of this fuller stretch force on more of the rope(below your hand), when can't "impress" the limb. And maybe do same after you have "impressed" the limb with upward or sidewards force.
Also note, that we can tweak a lil more potential from the 2xEffort part, by pulling up on limb at stiff point, at a farther out position than the hitch point (and likewise pulling up closer to crotch would give drop in force potential). But, then also, all ways some friction loss on support, even if pulley.
There is a lil'more, as it goes into having 2 forces maximized to work, impact and leverage; how the friction in some ranges can help the preloading, even doing all this into a round turn(high friction) to then leverage. Then laying the load slowly into the line to preload further, sometimes even make limb fold some towards left in a fake out, just to automate more line tension built to then pull limb around right more powerfully(and with that pull force a stronger hinge in equal/opposite response too). Anyway climber position can be key to help tighten, or even self tighten etc. The opposite of sitting on a limb as it is being rigged, is pulling on the control side (and or pulling up on limb)!
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kevin bingham
ArboristSite Operative
sorry, Ill get some pics up soon, in the mean time, here is another very fuzzy video of me going up and down a spar with the f8 revolver. very useful for working on spurs. when this video was made, I was only using a wire gate revolver, which I believe to be safe, but youll see on my second acent, it pops off the tether. The f8 revolver s incredibly simple. It is basically the revolver cliping a bite of rope through the big ring of the eight.
I rarely find a need for doubled rope technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaI5pkzHha8&feature=related
I rarely find a need for doubled rope technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaI5pkzHha8&feature=related
SINGLE-JACK
ArboristSite Guru
F8 revolver
Kevin -
After studying your videos, It looks like your "f8 revolver system" is an "incredibly simple" but incredibly innovative way to add constant friction to and otherwise conventional SRT (friction hitch, tender, etc.). Is that right? Or is there more to it than meets the eye?
I'm guessing you tried other ways before you came up with your system. It would also be interesting to know what you found that didn't work.
Good job
Kevin -
After studying your videos, It looks like your "f8 revolver system" is an "incredibly simple" but incredibly innovative way to add constant friction to and otherwise conventional SRT (friction hitch, tender, etc.). Is that right? Or is there more to it than meets the eye?
I'm guessing you tried other ways before you came up with your system. It would also be interesting to know what you found that didn't work.
Good job
kevin bingham
ArboristSite Operative
I came up with this while doing FEMA work in texas after gustav. I had to climb lots of trees along trails and back roads. isolating limbs sucked and very time consuming. So in the name of time and money, i said screw it. I would just throw the line over with one throw and and tie to the nearest secure spot where the ball landed. I just started climbing srt. I used a ladder a lot. footlocked the rest. I started just working the trees on a single line and trying not to weight the hitch too much. Fried my hitch up. very difficult going, though pretty safe. I used a munter hitch above the hitch when I knew I was going down down. but the munter hitch will only go down and is very frustrating when you have to go up for anything.
Then it just sort of happened that i put the wire gate revolver that i didnt really use for anything but just bought cause it seemed like a genius idea together with my eight. since then, very little has changed, it worked, and to my great suprise was the smoothest way to work a tree that I had ever tried.
In Texas it allowed me to go through 5 trees at a time with out ever retying or recrotching. I would swing to another tree, climb to the top, take my rope through a crotch, work the tree, swing to the next tree or redirect above other trees etc. The ability to redirect without losing friction is awesome. When you get down you just haul the rope out. (if you go through too many redirects than it gets tough)
I have found that climbing with te fate is more balancy and i lean on my harness less. I climb the tree more and tend the rig as I climb. For long acents I just pop the f8 off.
to tend, it is more difficult foot for foot than dDRT but you only need to tend half as much rope. It takes a little practice to feel comfortable. Rich hattier in ohio found that the ISC fixe pulley works instead of the revolver. he also uses a big ring off a cambium saver
I am sure that there is a way to streamline this concept. It would have to be made though. I have several prototypes in my head that would work better than the F8. I have not tried a unicender yet. But $40 for a revolver and 15 for an eight is hard to beat. They are two tools that are applicable in many other scenarios as well.
Then it just sort of happened that i put the wire gate revolver that i didnt really use for anything but just bought cause it seemed like a genius idea together with my eight. since then, very little has changed, it worked, and to my great suprise was the smoothest way to work a tree that I had ever tried.
In Texas it allowed me to go through 5 trees at a time with out ever retying or recrotching. I would swing to another tree, climb to the top, take my rope through a crotch, work the tree, swing to the next tree or redirect above other trees etc. The ability to redirect without losing friction is awesome. When you get down you just haul the rope out. (if you go through too many redirects than it gets tough)
I have found that climbing with te fate is more balancy and i lean on my harness less. I climb the tree more and tend the rig as I climb. For long acents I just pop the f8 off.
to tend, it is more difficult foot for foot than dDRT but you only need to tend half as much rope. It takes a little practice to feel comfortable. Rich hattier in ohio found that the ISC fixe pulley works instead of the revolver. he also uses a big ring off a cambium saver
I am sure that there is a way to streamline this concept. It would have to be made though. I have several prototypes in my head that would work better than the F8. I have not tried a unicender yet. But $40 for a revolver and 15 for an eight is hard to beat. They are two tools that are applicable in many other scenarios as well.
