questions re: climbing basics

[NebClimber]

Hey guys. Need some info on climbing. Taught myself how to climb (traditional method, KISS, which is what I want to stick with, at least as much as possible), then a few kind souls gave me 20 minute lessons. Just completed by first job in the biz. Climbed and cleared limbs on walnut that were hanging over house. Then cleared deadwood. I KEEP GETTING TANGLED IN THE TREE. I recrotched about 10 times as I moved from limb to limb, etc. And some of the times where I didn't recrotch, I was left tied into a limb that was paralell to me. And at times, below me. I know the theory is to tie in as high as possible, but even when I was tied in well above the branch i was working on, when I moved to the other side of the tree, or even just to a branch to my left or right, my rope tangled in branches, or I was left with my running end strung through the tree. What am I missing here!?

Yes, below me. This sounds like a really bad idea, but I did it.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I am hesitant to give advice to a (fella)fool who is just starting out and is already doing things he knows are wrong. There are plenty of ways to get hurt or killed in this work when you do things right. It's guys like you that drive insurance rates so dang high.
Perhaps the best advice is to encourage you into another field of work, what do you think of sales? You could stay in aboriculture and perhaps even make more money working on comission.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Ditto to what Brian said. Tree climbing ain't checkers, it much more like chess - ya gotta see several moves ahead and work with that.

Divide the tree into two, four, or even more quadrants then work them accordingly. Don't be shy to reclimb the same lead to get a better point of tie-in for working another quadrant

Pay attention to what your rope is doing - above and below you. Take the time to square your line away, but don't spend all the time messing witch 'yo rope.

If you don't do it allready, learn how to tie in with your tail, and use your lanyard resourcefully.

Once you reach the top, setting multiple ropes will help, especially in the big trees.

If you have shorter ropes, use them in the smaller trees. There is no reason to use a 120-150 ft rope in a 40 ft tree.

Every time you find yourself in a bind, try to figure out what you did wrong and remember it. Learn from your mistakes.

There are several good books to study. My favorite is Gerald Beraneks "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work".

Plan your moves, learn from your errors, and don't repeat 'em!

Mike Maas has some valid points, but you've got to start somewhere. Educate yourself, learn from other climbers, and plan your moves. On days off, get with another climber whos working and observe him. See what he does right, but even more important, see what he does wrong. Become a sponge and soak up everything you can.

Do the most work you can, with the least energy expended.

 

[Tree Machine]

Gotta start somewhere

I like Blaster's chess reference. It takes experience to 'read' a tree, but it's the only way you'll learn to work a tree with the safety and efficiency of a pro.

Do you have a BigShot? Much cheaper than a bucket truck. If you're using spikes on anything but a dead tree you'll get a lot of flack from us guys who care for trees, rather than pock them full of little holes.

As far as repositioning your rope, mebbe try redirects; that is, using web slings to choker a nearby limb, and clip your rope through that using a locking caribiner. This is classic rock climbing method and is essential in limbwalking.

Beranek's book is truly a great reference, and Jerry was/is maybe the best big tree guy on the planet. I think the best reference guide I have yet come across is "The Tree Climber's Companion" by Jeff Jepson. Well-illustrated and he covers the spectrum really well. This is my suggestion as a place to start. p.s. Get liability insurance.

 

[geofore]

what's missing

Does not sound as if you were missing any of the limbs . Do not practice bad habits, take the time to do it right and you will get faster and better at it, in time, in the tree. We have all climbed back up to reset lines to get a better angle. When I first started to cut trees I was taken by how different they looked from up in the tree than from the ground. I made a plan of how to take the tree from on the ground and once up in the tree it changed because I could see from up there an easier way to do it, so leave your plan open and as you climb up look around to see what can be done easier or different from up top. Time and practice good habits, you need to read the mentioned books to find out the tricks that work, it is faster and safer than trial and error. 20 miniute lessons are a step in the right direction but not enough time to learn it all. In time you will learn to read trees, every catface, bump, hollow and crotch has something to tell you about the tree. Time and practicing good habits.

 

[Crispin Hoar]

I like to get together with other climbers and play tag in the trees. You really learn how to read a tree when you are trying to catch or get away from another climber. The better your tie in point the better you play the game. You will learn how to move threw the tree with the most ease. ***note** When playing tag. If you must make an unsafe move or break a safety rule to get away from the person that is it DON"T. I won't play with people that climb above thier tie in point or break safety rules. Its a GAME. Iwant to play not do an aerial rescue.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
It's guys like you that drive insurance rates so dang high.

Or is it the guys that don't take the time to ask other people who have the answers. I commend the guy for trying to find out the answers.

love
nick

 

[MasterBlaster]

I WISH this forum had been around when I first started. I would have drove you guys crazy!

Are ya still with us, Nebclimber?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Nick, at least you had the sence to go looking for a job so you could learn from pro's,

 

[NebClimber]

Thanks for the replies guys. Today went a little better. I've been reading the Tree Climber's Companion, and that is where I learned to climb. I am most intrigued by the idea of "re-tying in with my tail." What does this mean? I'll check the book and see if it is in there. By the way, how fast are you guys at retying in? 5 minutes? 60 seconds?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Tieing in with your tail is nothing more than using a bowline to attach your line to your saddle. Leave yourself enough length in the tail to tie your climbing knot.

You can leave the original line attached for double crotched limb walking, or you could detach and go completely on your tail for a temporary new tie-in point. Mostly the latter.

The speed of re-tieing in depends on how fast you can tie a bowline. You DO know how to tie a bowline, right?

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm a cow fan

I'd like to learn to tie a bowline sometime. A decade in the business and, unbelievable as it seems, I have never tied a bowline. I'm a VERY big fan of spliced rope ends and ( an assortment of..)caribiners which are quick-to-rig as well as unrig. This eliminates a lot of conventional tie-off ops.

I find (an assortment of...) web slings to be indipensible in doing any technical rigging, either of yourself or limbs and branches.

Wire core flipline? Safety snaps on both ends give extra tie in point versatility.

I, too, wish I'd had this forum thread when I was starting out.... a bunch of field pro's serving it up to me on a silver platter, gladly, and for free. -TM-

 

[geofore]

to tie or knot

Thank God they never approved velcro or the new micro velcro for climbing, though the newer pads for the spurs use velcro. You should learn to tie knots in case one your slings breaks. I use slings and caribiners but know how to tie knots they are handy and you can do it with one hand in a pinch. What am I saying my chaps use velcro Your going to make the old guys think knots are old like the kids that don't learn how to do math because they use a calculator. Learning to tie knots helps you learn how to think, ask Nick, he can splice, a step beyond knots though I can tie a knot faster than I can splice a loop in the end of a rope I splice rope on rain days. I think climbing basics should include knots and the proper use of slings.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Say you accidently nick your line, you'll need tie it off. Or if you want to double end...

But then I don't use a bo'lin for that, I'll use an anchor or a fisherman's, depending if it is spilt tail or old fashioned fixed tail attatchment.

 

[Burnham]

Ya gotta do knots...it's so deeply ingrained in all manner of ropework that I don't see how you can call yourself a pro climber/rope technician without that skill in spades. I can't believe knotless climbing even exists.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Don't tell me.... bowline mindblock?

I thought that was only a brush tech ailment!

 

[Steve Bunyan]

blake's or tautline

The more I read these threads the more I realize what a novice I am. I just started using the split tail system this year after two years of burning the tails of my rope. I'm proud of my knowledge of traditional knots but feel like I'm in the dark ages. Tautline or Blake's Hitch? I can't get the Blake's to bite as good as the Tautline. I use a figure eight stopper knot on both. Before you tease me realize there aren't many monster trees in Central Canada and most of the time I free climb with a scare strap(flipline), an 020 and a good arm lock.

 

[Dan F]

It's been two+ years since I've been in a tree, so I'm not up-to-date on some stuff...

The problem I had with the tautline is that it bit *too* well. It was hard to get it to release and slide up the rope, IIRC.

If you are having trouble with the Blakes hitch, you probably either need to dress it better, or you are just not tying it right. I never had a problem with it when it was tied right.

As for free climbing, I'll let someone else more experienced jump in on that. The only thing I'll say about it though, is I don't care how strong your arm is, the rope is stronger, and it doesn't ever get distracted!


Dan

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

3 point contact while working is a "shall not" in the ANSI standards, and not a good idea in general.

In the US it is requierd to have 2 points of tie in when cutting, just in case. I like the added stability. Chansays "shall" be peorated with 2 hands, unless the responsible person (read company owner) descdes it is the safest method for that particular cut. Kickback cna be a bee-itch

IOM no one should free climb any tree. If you do this every day, the odds are agianst you that you may slip.