Adkpk
Addicted to ArboristSite
Grapple hook
Rainy days splicing
- Thread starter Ghillie
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moss
ArboristSite Guru
That double ended lanyard is plenty long enough to climb in the crown of any conifer and will work fine for plenty of hardwoods.
One problem with it is that you have to untie and retie your Blakes for each pitch. Probably best to anchor the end of each split tail to your harness so you have the biner on the end of each side of your lanyard free to throw over the next branch as you work your way up.
I prefer a biner over a snap because getting a snap in the face hurts a lot more than an aluminum biner. Not that I've been hit but I watched a friend take a steel biner in the face pulling his lanyard back though a crotch. I just wrap the biner in a monkey fist to throw over the next limb, the extra weight of a snap or steel biner isn't really needed.
The major problem with that type of long double-ended lanyard is that the loop is always getting hung below you, especially on conifers where there are usually stubs below.
My current strategy is a long and short lanyard, each with the tail hanging free, and alt climb with that. For the longer lanyard I choose a length based on the climb situation could be 40 ft. or 60 ft. The lanyard is configured on the spot as needed.
Here are my two lanyards for a tall conifer climb. The long lanyard is on the right, The split tail/hitch will be tied below the "pipe" when I start climbing. The long lanyard is about 50 ft., short one about 15 ft. I use the same hitch configuration on the long one (as on the short lanyard.)
Ok, back to splices
-moss
One problem with it is that you have to untie and retie your Blakes for each pitch. Probably best to anchor the end of each split tail to your harness so you have the biner on the end of each side of your lanyard free to throw over the next branch as you work your way up.
I prefer a biner over a snap because getting a snap in the face hurts a lot more than an aluminum biner. Not that I've been hit but I watched a friend take a steel biner in the face pulling his lanyard back though a crotch. I just wrap the biner in a monkey fist to throw over the next limb, the extra weight of a snap or steel biner isn't really needed.
The major problem with that type of long double-ended lanyard is that the loop is always getting hung below you, especially on conifers where there are usually stubs below.
My current strategy is a long and short lanyard, each with the tail hanging free, and alt climb with that. For the longer lanyard I choose a length based on the climb situation could be 40 ft. or 60 ft. The lanyard is configured on the spot as needed.
Here are my two lanyards for a tall conifer climb. The long lanyard is on the right, The split tail/hitch will be tied below the "pipe" when I start climbing. The long lanyard is about 50 ft., short one about 15 ft. I use the same hitch configuration on the long one (as on the short lanyard.)
Ok, back to splices
-moss
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Ghillie
Addicted to ArboristSite
I see you read Silvermaple's post about the grapple. I already bent and then broke one of the tines on mine. I bought some M5x.8 shoulder bolts to make some more tines.
canopyboy
ArboristSite Operative
That double ended lanyard is plenty long enough to climb in the crown of any conifer and will work fine for plenty of hardwoods.
One problem with it is that you have to untie and retie your Blakes for each pitch. Probably best to anchor the end of each split tail to your harness so you have the biner on the end of each side of your lanyard free to throw over the next branch as you work your way up.
Ok, back to splices
-moss
There is no need to untie the Blakes. You slide the Blake on the end you're using back to give you enough length in the lanyard to go over the branch and back. You throw over the lanyard/biner and then clip the biner into the split tail and your harness. To undo the other end and move to the next pitch, unclip that biner from your harness, remove the split tail from it, and adjust the Blake's position as necessary before tossing the lanyard end over your next branch. As long as you never unclip both biners at the same time, you're always tied in. No need to ever untie the Blakes except to clean/inspect.
I can manage the extra length in a small rope bag on the back of my belt that I carry the lanyard in when not in use. Although so far it looks like my loop never really hangs down more than about 15 ft at a time, which makes it fairly easy to manage.
I don't think it's much different than your setup Moss, if you tied the butt ends of your two lanyards together and swapped the VTs for Blakes. (Not considering the tubes.) The advantage from my pov is that as I traverse I let out on one end and pull in on the other, essentially switching which is my short and long lanyard. I want to play around with it some more, but have been toying with the idea of switching the Blakes to VTs.
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canopyboy
ArboristSite Operative
BTW Moss, how do you get those tubes up and over the branch when you're throwing the lanyard over? I have no problem doing it when I'm pulling my rope over with a throwline. But if I'm throwing over the lanyard, it seems I would need to have some extra length after retrieving the biner end to pull it up or make the lanyard into a loop in order to set the tree saver tube. It would definitely be desirable when climbing conifers or anything else that gums up your rope though.
I'm still a bit new to this site, at what point have we moved away from splicing enough that we should start a new thread?
I'm still a bit new to this site, at what point have we moved away from splicing enough that we should start a new thread?
Adkpk
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, you got it. Good advice on the replacement tine. I'll start the lanyard thread.
moss
ArboristSite Guru
Hmmm.. not getting your explanation. Looking at your system I'd have to slip either the split tail eye or the lanyard eye off the biner to advance the end of the lanyard over the next branch. For your lanyard I'd attach the split tail eye directly to my harness (not the same biner on the lanyard eye) so the rope eye/biner were free to put over the next branch.
-moss
-moss
moss
ArboristSite Guru
Be glad to join the lanyard conversation in a new thread when it starts.
For the long lanyard the sleeve is installed same as if from the ground. For the short lanyard it depends on the situation, I might put a slip knot behind it to position on the branch or I might put it in by hand.
I climb in white pine quite a bit so the sleeves are a big help protecting the rope from sap and the upper pine branches from the rope. Young white pine branches have very thin bark.
-moss
For the long lanyard the sleeve is installed same as if from the ground. For the short lanyard it depends on the situation, I might put a slip knot behind it to position on the branch or I might put it in by hand.
I climb in white pine quite a bit so the sleeves are a big help protecting the rope from sap and the upper pine branches from the rope. Young white pine branches have very thin bark.
-moss
moss
ArboristSite Guru
I used to use a double-ended lanyard but found I was spending too much time pulling rope through the hitches. Long lanyard crosses large vertical gaps and allows me to rappel out of the top in less pitches. The short lanyard provides life attachment while I'm advancing the long. With tails hanging down unencumbered no twist is captured, very few rope hangups below. A rope bag works for carrying the loop on a double-ended lanyard but I'm working hard to minimize gear on my harness.
A closed split tail is nice on a lanyard, most importantly it gives you one-handed operation for tightening up the lanyard. You can release it one handed as well depending on how you're hanging. VT is too sloppy for me, I use an XT which has VT performance without the slop. Mileage varies with closed split tail hitches, everyone has their favorite.
-moss
A closed split tail is nice on a lanyard, most importantly it gives you one-handed operation for tightening up the lanyard. You can release it one handed as well depending on how you're hanging. VT is too sloppy for me, I use an XT which has VT performance without the slop. Mileage varies with closed split tail hitches, everyone has their favorite.
-moss
canopyboy
ArboristSite Operative
Moss - I think you've got it, but I also think that it just doesn't seem right to you. Only talking about one end of the lanyard at a time, there is a single 'biner through the split tail eye, the lanyard eye, and my harness. Remembering that I'm tied in on the second end of the lanyard before advancing, I unclip my harness and like you said unclip the split tail from the 'biner. I toss over the lanyard with the 'biner for a bit of extra weight, bring it back and reattach the split tail and then the whole thing to my harness. So far it's been very efficient and effective for me, but each to his own.
I try to avoid having a bunch of carabiners on my harness tie-in, and if I have the lanyard and split tail separate I would have at least 4 clipped in when I was using both ends of the lanyard. I guess I could see both split tails permanently clipped in with only a 3rd 'biner. Maybe I'll give that a try for giggles.
And thanks for the rest of your explanations. Always trying to improve a bit, and seeing what other people do helps.
I try to avoid having a bunch of carabiners on my harness tie-in, and if I have the lanyard and split tail separate I would have at least 4 clipped in when I was using both ends of the lanyard. I guess I could see both split tails permanently clipped in with only a 3rd 'biner. Maybe I'll give that a try for giggles.
And thanks for the rest of your explanations. Always trying to improve a bit, and seeing what other people do helps.
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moss
ArboristSite Guru
canopyboy
ArboristSite Operative
Can you help enlighten me to what an XT is and what makes it different from a VT?
moss
ArboristSite Guru
XT crosses below the coils before you start the braid, holds it's shape better. VT collapses too much for my taste when it's not loaded.
XT hitch photos
Photos show a 5-wrap and 4-wrap coil, I climb a 4-wrap w/8mm Beeline on Tachyon.
-moss
Edit: the pre-fab eye n' eye prusik cords aren't going to be the right length for your configuration, best to tie with double overhand noose knots to tune the length, then order (or make the splice yourself) based on what length you settle on. I stick with tied eyes, I like the way they grab the biner tight, the spliced eyes tend to stretch a little over time and move around on the biner.
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canopyboy
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks, seems like I've seen that before, but wasn't able to find it anywhere once you mentioned it.
Back to splices:
I was thinking of keeping with tied eyes for a couple reasons. Aside from being able to tune the length, you mention keeping it tight on the carabiner. But I was also looking at the splice length. I have some of Ultra Tech and flipped through Samson's Class 2 splicing directions. After you splice both ends, you have a core that doubles almost the entire length of the prusik lanyard, making it quite a bit stiffer I would think.
Back to splices:
I was thinking of keeping with tied eyes for a couple reasons. Aside from being able to tune the length, you mention keeping it tight on the carabiner. But I was also looking at the splice length. I have some of Ultra Tech and flipped through Samson's Class 2 splicing directions. After you splice both ends, you have a core that doubles almost the entire length of the prusik lanyard, making it quite a bit stiffer I would think.
iliketrees
ArboristSite Lurker
would you be so kind as to direct me to that thread? I tried searching, but all I can find are threads refering to grapple trucks....
Also, no user silvermaple.
Thanks!
FanOFatherNash
ArboristSite Operative
Nice work for a guy that lives in a dungeon. No really nice work
zogger
Tree Freak
Those are very nice
Of course I have no idea whatsoever *what* they are or what they are for, but still nice.
I just wish I had gotten into you guys work when I was younger, I think I would have been good at it. Had one offer back in the 80s (typical start out on the ground, work your way literally up..) but it was working in solid poison ivy encrusted trees so I passed on it. The pay was roughly what I was making at another job, just looked to be challenging and more fun. But still..solid poison ivy laced everything, several jobs in a row..what I was told anyway.
Proly why they were looking for help...I knew it was a mistake so I didn't take the offer.
Funny, now, I hardly ever get it and when I do it is no big deal but back then and all the way back to when I was a little kid I would get it so bad I stayed as far away as I could. got hauled to the hospital once for it, and another time was part of a pharmco experiment for a pill/vaccine (that worked, never saw it on the market though, but only summer I never got poison ivy either)
I am around it all the time now..but don't get it. I have no idea why not either. About the only difference now is I have become a fanatic about using gloves, I always carry two pair on me, one cotton, one leather. Always as in all the time, and I put them on before doing any work whatsoever.
Of course I have no idea whatsoever *what* they are or what they are for, but still nice.
I just wish I had gotten into you guys work when I was younger, I think I would have been good at it. Had one offer back in the 80s (typical start out on the ground, work your way literally up..) but it was working in solid poison ivy encrusted trees so I passed on it. The pay was roughly what I was making at another job, just looked to be challenging and more fun. But still..solid poison ivy laced everything, several jobs in a row..what I was told anyway.
Proly why they were looking for help...I knew it was a mistake so I didn't take the offer.
Funny, now, I hardly ever get it and when I do it is no big deal but back then and all the way back to when I was a little kid I would get it so bad I stayed as far away as I could. got hauled to the hospital once for it, and another time was part of a pharmco experiment for a pill/vaccine (that worked, never saw it on the market though, but only summer I never got poison ivy either)
I am around it all the time now..but don't get it. I have no idea why not either. About the only difference now is I have become a fanatic about using gloves, I always carry two pair on me, one cotton, one leather. Always as in all the time, and I put them on before doing any work whatsoever.
Something I learned awhile back, which is of limited use to climbers, but is still interesting, is how to splice double braid line to wire rope..7x19 or so...
Skin the sheath back a foot or two and knot to secure it, then unravel a foot or so of the core, unweave the core and divide into groups of three...taper the wire rope back eight or ten diameters, and cover the end and taper with rubber tape to keep the spurs in...feed this into the center of the core and snug the end of the tape just above where you stopped unravelling the core...take the three strands you developed from the core and splice to the body of the wire rope, as if it were three strand rope...now loosen the cover and basically repaet the same steps as above, starting with the end of the core splice..then whip the whole splice over with marline to protect it.
like I say, not alot of use to a climber maybe, but every time I do one for a sailboat owner I get a hundred bucks or so..and I never have to buy another halyard..:hmm3grin2orange:
Skin the sheath back a foot or two and knot to secure it, then unravel a foot or so of the core, unweave the core and divide into groups of three...taper the wire rope back eight or ten diameters, and cover the end and taper with rubber tape to keep the spurs in...feed this into the center of the core and snug the end of the tape just above where you stopped unravelling the core...take the three strands you developed from the core and splice to the body of the wire rope, as if it were three strand rope...now loosen the cover and basically repaet the same steps as above, starting with the end of the core splice..then whip the whole splice over with marline to protect it.
like I say, not alot of use to a climber maybe, but every time I do one for a sailboat owner I get a hundred bucks or so..and I never have to buy another halyard..:hmm3grin2orange:
