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Suggestion: mind your own business. You didn't hire them and so far as I can tell from your description of their conduct they're only going to hurt themselves.

As for calling some regulatory body to send an agent out to drive by, are you serious?! Do you seriously have that little to do with your time?

I'm all for safe practices but there is a line that exists between the parties to an unsafe act and "enlightened," know-it-all do-gooders who feel it is their obligation to meddle in business that isn't theirs to interfere with. If you want to share your opinion with these folks, by all means do so. But anything beyond that is uncalled for and obnoxious.

I'm somewhat enjoying the debate I've stirred up. Usually heated discussions bring out good points on each side. I agree with many of the points made and like many of you, I often speak more aggressively in my initial statements than I actually intend. That being said, yes, I do have lots to do with my time. I have a responsibility to my community as a firefighter to respond to emergencies so I notice dangerous situations when they stare me in the face.

I also have a responsibility as a tax payer. If you're not familiar with that then you have missed the point of living in America where we all agree to live by the law of the land in order to continue a free society (NOT that all political decisions are sound). As a tax payer I know that lots of my money goes to support the regulatory agencies for a reason. Usually to reduce injury. Reduction of injury is NOT something that is only a concern of the potential injured. It's my concern and should be yours. As alluded to in an earlier post, the cost of healthcare and yes the use of tax money are both affected by people who can't or don't pay for their medical bills AND by everyone who makes a claim. So even if this guy gets one of the kids working for him hurt and his insurance pays, guess what, for all of you trying to insure workers -- the cost goes up. It's the same as auto insurance. Every injury and every claim means that the rest of us pay more -- we pay based on statistical risk.

If the guy can't pay, then we do. If the guy pays part, we do. Our tax dollars support the medical system. And here's the real kicker, even if he can pay but he uses a trauma center, we likely pay too. Most trauma centers NEVER collect 100% from patients and the rest is subsidized from tax dollars.

And when this guy or his workers are old and using Medicare/Medicaid twice as much as me because they've got chronic conditions because of bad decisions early in life, guess who pays for that -- WE DO.

One more argument, the cost of you equipment is directly affected by every injury. Every injury means additional research money gets spent for safety features. Injuries mean more cost for safety features. I'm not saying they are all bad but consider the safety guard on a table saw. Who keeps that thing on there? Probably 1% of the users. But we all paid for it when we bought the saw because it's the only way it can be sold. And consider that the manufacturers get sued regularly for injury claims. Guess what -- they settle them in the tune of 12 to 100 thousand REGULARLY. My friend that is general counsel for a tool manufacturer regularly goes to meetings with people who are hurt by their own stupidity with 10 or 12 thousand to offer as a settlement to avoid costly litigation that the manufacturer would win. WE PAY FOR THAT every time we buy a tool.

So yes, I do have other things to do with my time. This was staring me in the face. I'm not looking to snitch (what an accusing word), I'm looking to protect my community and my money.

BTW, for what it's worth, this is all taking place by a major road so I'm not the only one seeing this. I got two phone calls this weekend asking if the were working for me.

I'm not looking to start a fight or be disliked because I speak my mind but I will go out on a limb an say that perhaps we all ought to consider how much time a conversation, phone call, or some education for those who don't understand the benefits of safety practices is really worth. I know this is an optimistic outlook but complacency is why our society is bleeding money as it is (I'll leave that comment there).

I appreciate all of you who do utilize safety practices. I wish more of you would.

I'm done, thanks for reading, Will
 
Suggestion: mind your own business. You didn't hire them and so far as I can tell from your description of their conduct they're only going to hurt themselves.

As for calling some regulatory body to send an agent out to drive by, are you serious?! Do you seriously have that little to do with your time?

I'm all for safe practices but there is a line that exists between the parties to an unsafe act and "enlightened," know-it-all do-gooders who feel it is their obligation to meddle in business that isn't theirs to interfere with. If you want to share your opinion with these folks, by all means do so. But anything beyond that is uncalled for and obnoxious.

Well said....especially the "uncalled for and obnoxious" part. :cheers:
 
I've tried informing the younger ones around here about proper safety when using chainsaws.

They don't listen. They don't follow rules. They know it all!

Some of the professional loggers are the worst. I saw one sharpening a chain and asked if he wanted gloves. He said no. Then he cut his finger. I asked again if he wanted gloves. He said no...

Another rented my chainsaw for pro logging work. I gave him all the safety equipment too. He did not wear the chaps and cut his leg! This is a pro logger!

Same guy and I loaned him my string trimmer. I gave him safety glasses. He said "I'm a logger, I don't wear safety equipment!" Something flew up and hit him in the eye. He still refused to wear the goggles.

Another pro logger had his chainsaw kickback and he seriously cut another worker who was standing nearby. I told him I would loan him a chainsaw safety video if he wanted. He said he did not need it, said he had already seen plenty of safety videos!

Then every summer a few 18 year olds around here die from accidents. Car, motorcycle, riding in back of pick-up, ATV, etc. Darwin at work I guess.

Part of the problem is they can't read very well although they have graduated from high school. Then there is an attitude that accidents which almost cost someone his life are "cool". The more dangerous the accident, the more respect they get from their buddies. Then they just don't follow rules. They will not follow ANY rules or laws!

Hopeless?
 
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I'm somewhat enjoying the debate I've stirred up. Usually heated discussions bring out good points on each side. I agree with many of the points made and like many of you, I often speak more aggressively in my initial statements than I actually intend. That being said, yes, I do have lots to do with my time. I have a responsibility to my community as a firefighter to respond to emergencies so I notice dangerous situations when they stare me in the face.

I also have a responsibility as a tax payer. If you're not familiar with that then you have missed the point of living in America where we all agree to live by the law of the land in order to continue a free society (NOT that all political decisions are sound). As a tax payer I know that lots of my money goes to support the regulatory agencies for a reason. Usually to reduce injury. Reduction of injury is NOT something that is only a concern of the potential injured. It's my concern and should be yours. As alluded to in an earlier post, the cost of healthcare and yes the use of tax money are both affected by people who can't or don't pay for their medical bills AND by everyone who makes a claim. So even if this guy gets one of the kids working for him hurt and his insurance pays, guess what, for all of you trying to insure workers -- the cost goes up. It's the same as auto insurance. Every injury and every claim means that the rest of us pay more -- we pay based on statistical risk.

If the guy can't pay, then we do. If the guy pays part, we do. Our tax dollars support the medical system. And here's the real kicker, even if he can pay but he uses a trauma center, we likely pay too. Most trauma centers NEVER collect 100% from patients and the rest is subsidized from tax dollars.

And when this guy or his workers are old and using Medicare/Medicaid twice as much as me because they've got chronic conditions because of bad decisions early in life, guess who pays for that -- WE DO.

One more argument, the cost of you equipment is directly affected by every injury. Every injury means additional research money gets spent for safety features. Injuries mean more cost for safety features. I'm not saying they are all bad but consider the safety guard on a table saw. Who keeps that thing on there? Probably 1% of the users. But we all paid for it when we bought the saw because it's the only way it can be sold. And consider that the manufacturers get sued regularly for injury claims. Guess what -- they settle them in the tune of 12 to 100 thousand REGULARLY. My friend that is general counsel for a tool manufacturer regularly goes to meetings with people who are hurt by their own stupidity with 10 or 12 thousand to offer as a settlement to avoid costly litigation that the manufacturer would win. WE PAY FOR THAT every time we buy a tool.

So yes, I do have other things to do with my time. This was staring me in the face. I'm not looking to snitch (what an accusing word), I'm looking to protect my community and my money.

BTW, for what it's worth, this is all taking place by a major road so I'm not the only one seeing this. I got two phone calls this weekend asking if the were working for me.

I'm not looking to start a fight or be disliked because I speak my mind but I will go out on a limb an say that perhaps we all ought to consider how much time a conversation, phone call, or some education for those who don't understand the benefits of safety practices is really worth. I know this is an optimistic outlook but complacency is why our society is bleeding money as it is (I'll leave that comment there).

I appreciate all of you who do utilize safety practices. I wish more of you would.

I'm done, thanks for reading, Will
What about healthcare of
20 million illegals that should irk you more than someone making
an unsafe living I don,t condone the unsafe practices but really
the law is not being adhered to by them, making them. I see another
double standard!
 
I've tried informing the younger ones around here about proper safety when using chainsaws.

They don't listen. They don't follow rules. They know it all!

Some of the professional loggers are the worst. I saw one sharpening a chain and asked if he wanted gloves. He said no. Then he cut his finger. I asked again if he wanted gloves. He said no...

Another rented my chainsaw for pro logging work. I gave him all the safety equipment too. He did not wear the chaps and cut his leg! This is a pro logger!

Same guy and I loaned him my string trimmer. I gave him safety glasses. He said "I'm a logger, I don't wear safety equipment!" Something flew up and hit him in the eye. He still refused to wear the goggles.

Another pro logger had his chainsaw kickback and he seriously cut another worker who was standing nearby. I told him I would loan him a chainsaw safety video if he wanted. He said he did not need it, said he had already seen plenty of safety videos!

Then every summer a few 18 year olds around here die from accidents. Car, motorcycle, riding in back of pick-up, ATV, etc. Darwin at work I guess.

Part of the problem is they can't read very well although they have graduated from high school. Then there is an attitude that accidents which almost cost someone his life are "cool". The more dangerous the accident, the more respect they get from their buddies. Then they just don't follow rules. They will not follow ANY rules or laws!

Hopeless?

Yep, ego is a great catalyst for killing one's self. No shame in using safety equipment. Hey 4will. I'm in the 1% for table saw users. :D

But I still have to believe in letting one make their own decisions. This is suppose to be the land of the free, and with each law passed, a little freedom is lost.
 
What about healthcare of
20 million illegals that should irk you more than someone making
an unsafe living I don,t condone the unsafe practices but really
the law is not being adhered to by them, making them. I see another
double standard!

I just didn't think the illegal issue was as applicable here. I've got a soapbox speach for that too. Schools, health departments, (pretty much every government program) being overburdened because of the increase population utilizing their service but with no additional tax base because the illegals aren't paying taxes. Add to that the requirement of translators or translation services that cost money.


Rreidnauer, I commend your patience with that device on the tablesaw.
 
I just didn't think the illegal issue was as applicable here. I've got a soapbox speach for that too. Schools, health departments, (pretty much every government program) being overburdened because of the increase population utilizing their service but with no additional tax base because the illegals aren't paying taxes. Add to that the requirement of translators or translation services that cost money.


Rreidnauer, I commend your patience with that device on the tablesaw.

I understand what you are saying and the importance of saftey equipment but wearing gloves to sharpen chains is flipping ridiculous.The annoying saftey thing on table saws forget it never used it.Yes i have plenty of scars when i slipped while filing but no major slices.I have nerve damage from not going to a doctor when i broke all the fingers on my right hand but they healed up fine.The point is if you want to wear ppe go for it but as i said before i keep my ppe down to a bare minimum.
 
I just didn't think the illegal issue was as applicable here. I've got a soapbox speach for that too. Schools, health departments, (pretty much every government program) being overburdened because of the increase population utilizing their service but with no additional tax base because the illegals aren't paying taxes. Add to that the requirement of translators or translation services that cost money.


Rreidnauer, I commend your patience with that device on the tablesaw.
The problem coming soon is competetition
of your biz with criminals paying no tax getting free health care
already here coming to your neighborhood soon!
 
Yep, ego is a great catalyst for killing one's self. No shame in using safety equipment. Hey 4will. I'm in the 1% for table saw users. :D

But I still have to believe in letting one make their own decisions. This is suppose to be the land of the free, and with each law passed, a little freedom is lost.
Do you make many dadoes cuts on a table saw? I make quite a few and I find it a pain in the :censored: to take the guard off and then put it back on when I make a through crosscut knowing that I'll end up taking it off the next day for more dadoes. No offense I was just wondering.

Evan
 
These young guys wearin shorts may not even know
of such a thing called chaps.

And as far as hearing protection, they may be wearing
plugs, but you just can't see them.

I bought my pair of chaps just after I joined AS.
I wonder if they saw the pics on the accident and injury forum
if they would change mind ?
 
Do you make many dadoes cuts on a table saw? I make quite a few and I find it a pain in the :censored: to take the guard off and then put it back on when I make a through crosscut knowing that I'll end up taking it off the next day for more dadoes. No offense I was just wondering.

Evan

None taken.

Well yes, of course there have been cases where I have to remove it, but for general ripping and cross-cutting, it's in place.
 
These young guys wearin shorts may not even know
of such a thing called chaps.

And as far as hearing protection, they may be wearing
plugs, but you just can't see them.

I bought my pair of chaps just after I joined AS.
I wonder if they saw the pics on the accident and injury forum
if they would change mind ?

Just to confirm, they were not wearing earplugs. I was out with my dog when one walked by to fuel up his saw, the other one came by a minute later, no plugs in either set of ears. I do think with these guys they could benefit from someone teaching them. If I get the chance to strike up conversation with one I might at least offer him some safety glasses since I've seen him stop twice to get crap out of his eyes.
 
Just to confirm, they were not wearing earplugs. I was out with my dog when one walked by to fuel up his saw, the other one came by a minute later, no plugs in either set of ears. I do think with these guys they could benefit from someone teaching them. If I get the chance to strike up conversation with one I might at least offer him some safety glasses since I've seen him stop twice to get crap out of his eyes.

Why bother. Apparently they don't care.
 
I understand what you are saying and the importance of saftey equipment but wearing gloves to sharpen chains is flipping ridiculous.The annoying saftey thing on table saws forget it never used it.Yes i have plenty of scars when i slipped while filing but no major slices.

You can't sharpen that good then, I learned to wear gloves after stitches, 2X. Oh well, you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.
 
You can't sharpen that good then, I learned to wear gloves after stitches, 2X. Oh well, you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.

Why can't I sharpen that good?do gloves make you a better sharpener?buddy i had to sew up my arm after ripping it open on an iron beam.
 
Why can't I sharpen that good?do gloves make you a better sharpener?buddy i had to sew up my arm after ripping it open on an iron beam.

Gloves don't make me better sharpener, they prevent stitches. Now you sewed up your own arm, you the man, I don't know how, my woman sews for me.
 
Gloves don't make me better sharpener, they prevent stitches. Now you sewed up your own arm, you the man, I don't know how, my woman sews for me.
Iguess i'm just tough as i havent been to a doctor since i was 10.
 
Just to confirm, they were not wearing earplugs. I was out with my dog when one walked by to fuel up his saw, the other one came by a minute later, no plugs in either set of ears. I do think with these guys they could benefit from someone teaching them. If I get the chance to strike up conversation with one I might at least offer him some safety glasses since I've seen him stop twice to get crap out of his eyes.

Were you and your dog wearing flame retardant suits and earplugs when you walked by? If not why not?
 

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