rig guy wirestops

[pdqdl]

MY guess would be that the installer used the wrong sized drill bit to bore the original hole. Too big a hole for any style equipment, it will pull through easily.

Was that cable that pulled through done with traditional hardware, or with Rigguys wire nuts? The drill you use for your older style 5/8" anchor bolts is not correct for installing Rigguys wire nuts. 1/16" larger than the strand you are using is correct.

Note: the holes are easier to drill when the bit is smaller; cheaper drill bits too!

 

[Mikecutstrees]

MY guess would be that the installer used the wrong sized drill bit to bore the original hole. Too big a hole for any style equipment, it will pull through easily.

Was that cable that pulled through done with traditional hardware, or with Rigguys wire nuts? The drill you use for your older style 5/8" anchor bolts is not correct for installing Rigguys wire nuts. 1/16" larger than the strand you are using is correct.

Note: the holes are easier to drill when the bit is smaller; cheaper drill bits too!

I don't know how big the hole was that was drilled. I do know it was done a few years ago > 3 and that it was traditional hardware, eye bolts cable and dead end grips. The cabling failed under and ice load in december..... Mike

 

[BCMA]

We have used these wire stops with no ill effects. The crews like using them as they are easy to install. We have had no system failures.

 

[treevet]

We have used these wire stops with no ill effects. The crews like using them as they are easy to install. We have had no system failures.

This is the time in this type of thread where I, or someone else comes in and says, "hey, they have not been around that long (to have failures) and the main concern is the potential deterioration of the stranded cable by delamination or ungalvanizing by chemicals and a dark damp environment that you can see on old lags and eyes but they are solid so it takes more time to compromise the strength of the unit that cannot be inspected. I also question the longevity of the termination".

I will continue to use the bolts as I have for 40 years and not opt for the easy and fast application. The gas powered drill has made a cable installation a picnic compared to back in the day.

 

[treeseer]

I will continue to use the bolts

And will you comply with 33.5.10?

 

[treevet]

And will you comply with 33.5.10?

I always have but we no longer use as standard as long ago, diamond shaped washers and bark trace them into the sapwood prior to installing. This used to be the accepted procedure. I was taught by Bartlett in 1969.

Glad to see you sprung for the standard.

 

[treeseer]

I always have ...
Glad to see you sprung for the standard.

Ditto (well from now on) and ditto!

It's a lot easier to talk about the rules when we both have a copy.

 

[pdqdl]

If I have a copy, it long ago escaped me. How 'bout you guys tell us what the standard says?

 

[treeseer]

always use washers on through hardware.

It costs less than a penny and a half a day to stay current w ANSI.

 

[pdqdl]

My guess would be that the outer nut on the Rigguys might qualify as the washer itself. It would be real tricky to get a 3/8" washer as large (and as thick) as needed to carry the load.

The rigguy nuts are 1" in diameter where they meet the wood, and absolutely NEVER will bend under the load of EHS strand. A standard 5/8" washer is a bit less than 1 3/4", so it technically has a greater area to spread the load onto.

I never saw one of the diamond shaped washers referred to previously.

 

[pdqdl]

We have used these wire stops with no ill effects. The crews like using them as they are easy to install. We have had no system failures.

What do you use to cut your EHS with? I broke a pair of bolt cutters, and went to using a die grinder.

I know they sell fancy wire cutters for that, but they look like they would take tremendous strength to actually cut strand up in a tree.

 

[BCMA]

What do you use to cut your EHS with? I broke a pair of bolt cutters, and went to using a die grinder.

I know they sell fancy wire cutters for that, but they look like they would take tremendous strength to actually cut strand up in a tree.

We use a pair of heavy duty felco wire cutters. It's a chore but they work.

I would be open to other choices if there are any.

 

[treevet]

I have seen a guillotine type piece that you insert the wire into a small heavy apparatus and the top has a sliding wedge that you strike with a sledge hammer and it cuts the wire with one blow.

I saw it in a truck years ago and the owner said it works real well. Looked like it would to. My guess is it came from the electric company.

I just use heavy duty bolt cutters that are high quality.

 

[treeseer]

hacksaw with linux blades. takes a few strokes but it is light and cuts clean. last time the crew cut 3/8" ehs with a bolt cutter the ends were so buggered i had to file before it would slide in the hole.

 

[Tree Machine]

Hacksaw does fine. Figure, one end does not need to be cut, as it is already a cut end. It goes through and is terminated. The second side needs to be cut. I find gripping the cable with vise-grips and then using the vise-grip as a guide for the hacksaw blade really helps. Having the vise-grip on there allows you to choker a sling onto the cable so that it doesn't get away from you after the cut has been completed. Just make sure the cable is not bending at the point you're cutting or two things can happen: the blade can get pinched, or strand #7 can bend once it's the only strand holding and this can be a beeotch to insert if one strand is out of line with the rest.

Was that cable that pulled through done with traditional hardware, or with Rigguys wire nuts? The drill you use for your older style 5/8" anchor bolts is not correct for installing Rigguys wire nuts. 1/16" larger than the strand you are using is correct.

Note: the holes are easier to drill when the bit is smaller; cheaper drill bits too!

I think probably traditional hardware, he used the term nut. The rigguy hardware is termed wirestops and the parts are called the block and the taper.

1/16" hole drilled larger then the cable diameter is common, but lately I've been stuffing 3/8" cable through a 3/8" hole. It can be done.

 

[treeseer]

lately I've been stuffing 3/8" cable through a 3/8" hole. It can be done.

Dayum, how do you do that--either you are reaming the hole a few extra times or you got amazin muscles!

 

[Tree Machine]

Amazing muscles, ha ha!

 

[treevet]

While you guys are sawing away I got my lag bolt in (occassionally use heavy eyes), spliced and dunndy. GM has already spliced the other end (common grade) and most of the time with an accurate measurement, no need for cutting at all. If a cut is nec., hey just lop it off with a bolt cutter like clipping a toenail.

You guys have gone too hi tech beyond ANSI standards just for convenience and supposed speed....but that hacksawing stuff is silly. (not funny silly either haha), You got amazing strength on the cable and questionable strength on the termination......weakest link's gonna get ya.

 

[Tree Machine]

So, do you have something objective to offer, or just your opinion?

Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion. However, unless you have some sort of what makes what the weakest link, and some measure of how weak that is and maybe a comparison of the strengths of other systems, then you're offering nothing but conjecture.

But I respect your opinion.

As far as something objective, hacksawing through 5/16" EHS cable, about a minute. The weight of the hacksaw compared to a bolt cutter (which can deform the cut end) a relative fraction and easily clipped on.

I come from the standpoint of being a climber, and having to assemble, hoist and climb around with all the gear necessary to do the procedure, I have to admit that simplicity does factor in. However, I don't use wirestops exclusively. I've got J-lags, left and right thread, thru-bolts and associated hardware, bundles of spiral cable wraps in a couple different sizes and dynamic cabling. I'm not going to dog the manner in which you choose to cable a tree, Treevet (or anybody) because I'm certain I use, or have used, or will again use that manner of installing a cable. I choose the system based on the individual tree, it's size and the condition of the tree in general, especially what's going on at the crotch(es).

 

[treevet]

So, do you have something objective to offer, or just your opinion?

Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion. However, unless you have some sort of what makes what the weakest link, and some measure of how weak that is and maybe a comparison of the strengths of other systems, then you're offering nothing but conjecture.

But I respect your opinion.

As far as something objective, hacksawing through 5/16" EHS cable, about a minute. The weight of the hacksaw compared to a bolt cutter (which can deform the cut end) a relative fraction and easily clipped on.

I come from the standpoint of being a climber, and having to assemble, hoist and climb around with all the gear necessary to do the procedure, I have to admit that simplicity does factor in. However, I don't use wirestops exclusively. I've got J-lags, left and right thread, thru-bolts and associated hardware, bundles of spiral cable wraps in a couple different sizes and dynamic cabling. I'm not going to dog the manner in which you choose to cable a tree, Treevet (or anybody) because I'm certain I use, or have used, or will again use that manner of installing a cable. I choose the system based on the individual tree, it's size and the condition of the tree in general, especially what's going on at the crotch(es).

Thank you for respecting my opinion Jim, and I also respect yours. Most of what we type out here is conjecture and one could not help but think that some of this conjecture is used by the standard makers in their positions of writing them. Vast reservoirs of experience on this forum at their disposal.

I am leery of new stuff, esp. in applications where damage or injury is likely should failure occur. What do I have to add? Like I have said before, I likely install 70 or 80 cables a year on an average. Over 40 years that is around 3000 cables, so my opinions are more than conjecture. I don't like the termination of this system and I do not like the hidden portion of the cable inside the stem. Hacksawing cable in the tree is just another thing that is troublesome.

Why has not the ANSI committee acknowledged this system? I am sure they are being pressured to do so. Some of the things I have brought to light with my conjecture early in the appearance of this system may be their problem as well.