Rope safe splicing lubricant?

[pdqdl]

Some of the extremely strong double braid ropes have a different material in the core than they do in the cover. Like the some of the kernmantle ropes, the fibers in the core are where all the strength in the rope is located. They use a different technique than a class I splice.

A class I double braid eye splice tucks the cover inside the core (in a reversed direction), and then pulls all the core back through the eye, so that the eye is doubled up inside, and both core and cover are locked into the load.

A class II double braid eye splice is not much fancier than a 12 braid splice: you just stuff the core back into itself and lock stitch it together. If you are getting fancy, you whip the cover down where the core is re-inserted into itself. The distance that must be inserted is pretty long, making any eye-to-eye prussic ropes uselessly too long, unless you use a different technique. As JPS mentioned in another thread, the spliced eye-to-eye prussics ropes are too stiff to use close to the eyes for a friction knot.

Sherrill refused to give me splicing instructions for some Bee Line I bought. Others here on AS helped me out with additional instructions not included in my splicing books. They suggested putting "a Brummel" into the eye, and shortening the inserted length of core. They then skip using the cover on the eye, and leave the core exposed. Moray was doing some testing on those a while back, I'll be looking those up when I get around to it.

I haven't tried that yet. I'm still working on my splicing techniques too.

 

[Ghillie]

Some of the extremely strong double braid ropes have a different material in the core than they do in the cover. Like the some of the kernmantle ropes, the fibers in the core are where all the strength in the rope is located. They use a different technique than a class I splice.

A class I double braid eye splice tucks the cover inside the core (in a reversed direction), and then pulls all the core back through the eye, so that the eye is doubled up inside, and both core and cover are locked into the load.

A class II double braid eye splice is not much fancier than a 12 braid splice: you just stuff the core back into itself and lock stitch it together. If you are getting fancy, you whip the cover down where the core is re-inserted into itself. The distance that must be inserted is pretty long, making any eye-to-eye prussic ropes uselessly too long, unless you use a different technique. As JPS mentioned in another thread, the spliced eye-to-eye prussics ropes are too stiff to use close to the eyes for a friction knot.

Sherrill refused to give me splicing instructions for some Bee Line I bought. Others here on AS helped me out with additional instructions not included in my splicing books. They suggested putting "a Brummel" into the eye, and shortening the inserted length of core. They then skip using the cover on the eye, and leave the core exposed. Moray was doing some testing on those a while back, I'll be looking those up when I get around to it.

I haven't tried that yet. I'm still working on my splicing techniques too.

Aha. Now I see what you were talking about.

What defines the class I and class II and how many classes are there.

Rich H. (at the climbing class last weekend) gave me a number of a guy near me that might be able (read willing) to take a lot of time off my learning curve on splicing. I hope to get ahold of him soon but I want to have an idea of what I want to ask him first. It is not just as simple as saying "teach me to splice", but you already know that.

I came across your thread about the beeline while looking for a solution to my 16 strand problem of getting the cover overlapped with the core in the bury. Actually I came across a few threads that I put in my favorites to read and reread.

I haven't switched (or tried) the newer climbing hitches and am still using a blakes, but I am going to try a floating bridge saddle next week. I am trying to change one thing at a time, and teach two guys that work for me how to climb also. Makes sense to me to start them out on the blakes until they get comfortable in the saddle and then work on some of the more gear intensive systems.

 

[moray]

Yes, 16 strand. I matched up the lock stitch (location) to what came from Sherrill on the other end of the XTC spark (top rope, not pictured). They are in the last part of the tapered section...

First of all, Ghillie, those are some gorgeous splices! And you're starting off with 16 strand, which in my book is really tough to work with.

One good thing about 16 strand is that the splice throat is already so tight that stitching the splice is largely or completely unnecessary. Good thing, because unless I have misread your post, you have the stitching in the wrong place. There are two jobs the stitching is supposed to do: (1) hold the splice together while it is rattling around in your truck or your dog is playing with it, and (2) supply the equivalent of some initial squeeze force right at the throat of the splice. Both of these functions of stitching become vital when you're dealing with 12-strand hollow braid (like Tenex or Ice Tail). A Tenex splice will readily fall apart if not stitched, and a highly unsymmetrical load on the eye can pull the core right out. Stitching towards the end of the taper would do little or nothing to stop this, whereas even very light stitching near the throat will render the splice completely safe even against large unsymmetrical loads.

If you visit the Samson web site, you will find the distinction between Class I and Class II splices has to do with the material. Class II applies to the new high-strength fibers like Vectran, Technora, and HMWPE. The "standard" fibers like nylon, polyester, and polypropylene are Class I. Generally speaking, you need longer buries for the high-strength fibers.

Keep splicing and posting--this is great stuff!

 

[Ghillie]

First of all, Ghillie, those are some gorgeous splices! And you're starting off with 16 strand, which in my book is really tough to work with.

One good thing about 16 strand is that the splice throat is already so tight that stitching the splice is largely or completely unnecessary. Good thing, because unless I have misread your post, you have the stitching in the wrong place. There are two jobs the stitching is supposed to do: (1) hold the splice together while it is rattling around in your truck or your dog is playing with it, and (2) supply the equivalent of some initial squeeze force right at the throat of the splice. Both of these functions of stitching become vital when you're dealing with 12-strand hollow braid (like Tenex or Ice Tail). A Tenex splice will readily fall apart if not stitched, and a highly unsymmetrical load on the eye can pull the core right out. Stitching towards the end of the taper would do little or nothing to stop this, whereas even very light stitching near the throat will render the splice completely safe even against large unsymmetrical loads.

If you visit the Samson web site, you will find the distinction between Class I and Class II splices has to do with the material. Class II applies to the new high-strength fibers like Vectran, Technora, and HMWPE. The "standard" fibers like nylon, polyester, and polypropylene are Class I. Generally speaking, you need longer buries for the high-strength fibers.

Keep splicing and posting--this is great stuff!

Thanks Moray. Nothing like going from double braid right to 16 strand!

I followed Samson's instructions on the 16 strand class I eye splice but I could not find any information on where the whip and lock stitch should go on this splice. I assumed it should go near the throat (insertion point) but on the other end of the XTC spark (top rope in picture, factory splice not shown)was an eye that was spliced by sherrill. I used that splice to judge where the whip and lock stitch should go.

Thinking back now, might there be more stitching under the shrink wrapped splice tag? It was near the throat.

I felt down the "tapered section" (the 5 strand pairs that were cut and pulled) and it felt like they started the stitching at the 4th strand pair that they cut and pulled.

Is this not right? Did you read that I stitched at the end of the buried sheath? Or am I completely confusing myself and everyone that reads this?

BTW: thanks for the idea about the 12 ga wire fid, when I make a new one I will post a pic of what I came up with, and explain how what I thought was a mistake (pulled the fid out with the yarn snare still in the splice) made for a quicker splice in the end.

 

[squad143]

Nice job there Ghillie.