Safe rope use to guide a falling tree.

[Westboastfaller]

Did the op ever post pics of the trees, proposed landing area and buildings other trees etc in the radius of where the trees are??? Because.....and if the trees are dead it adds a whole new problem because dead trees don't hinge well IMO

Doesn't he know we are visual creatures? Doesn't really matter.This way it can be whatever you want it to be..OR don't want it to be. All communications has being severed. IDK.
I got the feeling he already had his mind set as to how HE wants to do it and if somebody writes something HE sees as viable then he will pick it up and put it in his trick bag. Believe it or not..people don't want to here things like. "hire a pro"...."You don't want to over-pull on a tree"...."never hook up to a tractor or truck" ..."never work alone" ++...
I did about 12 hundred days in his area of 3D Seismic grids in northern BC and Alberta over 12 yrs as a danger tree faller. Mostly winter work. Some yrs were summer on heli portable. He is in central Alberta. All the hardwood forest species that I encountered are very forgiving due to the shorter grow season and being in a dry belt. May be fairly good where you are at also. 'You' can fall trees with big trees leaning on them or heavy snow load with out any special cuts. A 17" cottonwood would barber-chair easy in a wet belt. (west coast) They seem to stable ok at about 20"+ as tighter grow rings make up the sapwood due to the girth increase. Same as were I am now in the UK. Nov 9 and the grass could be cut every week still. Most big trees are full green. walked through the park today and there was little flowers that just popped up in patches under the trees.

It's crazy. Things I do up north could not be done on the west coast and things I did there won't work in the UK.
On the coast I had about a 17" cottonwood blow up because of a little bit too much holding wood than what it wanted. The PNW hardwoods didn't seem to have a problem of cuts closing with BC Fallers definition of a standard humboldt opening at a 6:12. pitch. That didn't fly in the UK with many hardwoods. Mr west coast faller making a tooth pick factory. That's professional.

I saw you post on another site. Nice humboldt but won't fly in many other states and places. Open it up or take a slice out of the front or do a pie cut if the chain is grabby so you take half of the degree from each side..or take your angle cut straight from the front and then change to the dogs in the corner when on the fly.

Lastly, you are generalizing about dead trees and their holding strength vs holding strength on live trees. Everything in this game has variables. .just reread the post if you don't believe me. lolzz.

lots of times it is better if the trees are dead for some years. I will just say this..The top weight reduces quicker than the hinge. But that could be BS, also. RIGHT?

 

[Brufab]

Yea it was a bit small. Good eye lol I was figuring I was gonna get taken to the woodshed on that one thanks for going easy on me westboast!!!!

 

[Jaspernl]

I have a bunch of tall poplar that are nearing end of life, and are leaning the wrong way to fell normally without putting house, barn, or shed at risk.

Check my calculations:
A 2 foot diameter poplar with have a stump area about 3 square feet. 80 feet tall. Let's assume that the branches make up for the trunk taper and for weight purposes it is a cylinder. 240 cubic feet.

Wet poplar at 40 lbs/cuft gives me a mass of 9600 pounds -- about 5 tons

If it leans 15 degrees, (over estimate) then there is about 25% of that load is in the horizontal direction. 2400 lbs.

I have 150' 3/4" nylon solid braid) rope with a rated breaking strength of 20,000 pounds in new condition, with an eye splice on either end.

My thought is put a messenger line into the crown, draw the rope up and over, bring the eye down, and pass thorugh. Attach the other end to my tractor (Deuzt 55 hp -- weighs about 3 tons)

Coefficient of friction on a tractor tire on firm soil is aobut .5 So maximum force tractor can put on rope is about 3000 lbs.

So use the tractor to tension the rope until wheels start to skid, OR it stretches 8% (Estimate of elastic stretch. I have an inquiry with the rope maker for this number)

My plan was to make the wedge cut first, then tension the rope, then make the back cut.

Is this a reasonable approach?

never trust them seen them rotten as .. inside you couldn t see it from the outside

 

[Brufab]

never trust them seen them rotten as .. inside you couldn t see it from the outside

Yea all the ones I cut last year were mostly hollow. Looked good on the outside. Amazing how they can even support themselves at 90'+ tall some with lean

 

[Jaspernl]

Yea all the ones I cut last year were mostly hollow. Looked good on the outside. Amazing how they can even support themselves at 90'+ tall some with lean

seen one with 2 tractors on ropes still going over the farm building (lucky it whasn t my job on that moment)

 

[Brufab]

With a few wedges and a tag on the opposite side it fell where I wanted it too. Beavers been chomping on it for 15 years thats why the base looks like that.

 

[Jaspernl]

feierabend in need of some beers

 

[calamari]

a surplus fire department come along. it uses 19mm wire rope and it feeds raw cable into it, so any length is acceptable.

A friend has one of those and it is something every wood cutter who can't drive a piece of equipment to the tree needs. Powerful and pulling length limited only by the length of the cable.
I didn't read all the posts so if this is repetitive, sorry.
When I pull a tree over I use my 4wd p/u and only pull from the rear. Reverse gears are much weaker than the forward gears in any transmission and you can break a transmission like a friend of mine did the last time he pulled a big tree over in reverse.
The other thing I don't understand from the posts I've read is that everyone who is pulling in a straight line is trying to pull the tree over onto them unless they have enough cable to be beyond its reach. There's also been a lot of discussion about lifting the vehicle's rear end up when using it to pull trees over. If you have the ability, put a snatch block low on a tree in line with the direction you want to pull the tree and then you can pull with the vehicle going at right angles to the desired fall line. No tree? Dig a hole and set a dead man. Can't dig? Use two vehicles and set the snatch block at the end of a cable attached to the parked vehicle and then pull with the other one.
Too much trouble? Take up Whist.

 

[thenne1713]

I didn't have any volume. It just read 'Timber' about 4-5 times..lol. Hows it going Brett?
Man, rough ride buddy. Looked like the tree stalled for a bit but was after it popped the vertical. must have just slowed back to it's reg speed after the jolt forward I guess.

I was just saying if he wanted to do a drop-snap back cut you don't pre-load on the rope with that cut.

We use it to hold a back-leaner or two while you are felling the forward leaner or a more manageable tree to wedge into them.
It's really been a Canadian coastal style on a side lay where the big trees are the key players, there to overcome felling difficulties. Wedges get buried also which is time and money. Our west-coastal American friends use tree jacks when they get into sizable wood way more.

A few advantages using that back-cut with the rope is to free you up so you can get to your tirfor winch or whatever. More stable than a tree cut up with wedges. You can still set a wedge lightly if you want.

I showed one guy that. He wasn't a climber and needed to free up the bucket truck. He was no way competent enough to do back-cut first and set wedges for that dia with heavy back-lean on a few maple tops. I had him leave about 15" of vertical holding wood on those with hinge wood.

It works good for this situation as long as they aren't forward-leaning. (Just side lean is fine) You can compensate a bit of a forward lean with undercutting the back cut more. If he can't pull the worst one that is 180 off the lean then 90 degrees can be a bad deal when. Too much stress on the high-side hinge or the high-side-back rips out with some of the roots. Some, you don't want to turn your undercut more than 60 degree and I do a 2" vertical wall at the inside of the undercut where the two cuts meet so the holding-wood peels down like a tongue.
3 side undercut.

My simple rule is never offer advice on hazardous operations except for safety, and that is, LIMB/ WOOD ALWAYS twice as big as it looks from the ground and always weighs 4x more than you think it does from the ground.

 

[501Maico]

Yea all the ones I cut last year were mostly hollow. Looked good on the outside. Amazing how they can even support themselves at 90'+ tall some with lean

Most of the strength is out at the circumference. Like the strength of a hollow pipe (depending on wall thickness) vs. a solid chunk of material.

 

[calamari]

Most of the strength is out at the circumference. Like the strength of a hollow pipe (depending on wall thickness) vs. a solid chunk of material.

We have lots of Live and Black Oaks here in the California foothills and a lot of them are huge and rotten in the middle. We removed one that had a 6' diameter base but only about 8-10"s of wood around the circumference. They can often look fine and then split apart and fall down like a big crown of broccoli. There are lots of broken off oaks in our woods that just break while looking healthy in all other aspects.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Most of the strength is out at the circumference. Like the strength of a hollow pipe (depending on wall thickness) vs. a solid chunk of material.

Not so much on a poplar

 

[501Maico]

We have lots of Live and Black Oaks here in the California foothills and a lot of them are huge and rotten in the middle. We removed one that had a 6' diameter base but only about 8-10"s of wood around the circumference. They can often look fine and then split apart and fall down like a big crown of broccoli. There are lots of broken off oaks in our woods that just break while looking healthy in all other aspects.

I can see that happening if left too long.

 

[501Maico]

Not so much on a poplar

I was making a general statement which I think is true and not distinguishing between species or conditions. Live or flexible wood is going to hold up better to side and downward forces than dead or brittle wood.

 

[calamari]

I was making a general statement which I think is true and not distinguishing between species or conditions. Live or flexible wood is going to hold up better to side and downward forces than dead or brittle wood.

The ones I've seen did it w/o warning. May just be a feature of old oak. The big tree was like it was because it had been in a fire that hollowed out a big cave in the trunk but didn't kill the tree. Unfortunately, over time rot got into most of the big limbs.

 

[Cricket]

The ones I've seen did it w/o warning. May just be a feature of old oak. The big tree was like it was because it had been in a fire that hollowed out a big cave in the trunk but didn't kill the tree. Unfortunately, over time rot got into most of the big limbs.

My late and much lamented mate, when he'd get a call to come deal with a tree across the road, at 2 in the morning of a still July night, would always say "It will be a big oak." - and it almost always was. I have no theory as to why (though one came down in the middle of a still warm July day right in front of my car once...) - and neither did he - but he was usually right. Though it was a silver maple that killed him.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

My late and much lamented mate, when he'd get a call to come deal with a tree across the road, at 2 in the morning of a still July night, would always say "It will be a big oak." - and it almost always was. I have no theory as to why (though one came down in the middle of a still warm July day right in front of my car once...) - and neither did he - but he was usually right. Though it was a silver maple that killed him.

Oaks definitely seem to be more prone to trunk rot, but will still have a healthy cambium and canopy, which I think makes them more prone to catastrophic failure.

 

[Brufab]

Dead ash here in michigan fall over with no wind on a perfect day. You will just hear a crash in the woods. Normally the roots rot out

 

[Brufab]

Oaks definitely seem to be more prone to trunk rot, but will still have a healthy cambium and canopy, which I think makes them more prone to catastrophic failure.

I have some good pics of center rot on my old phone I will have to find it of popple trees I felled. We called them toilets because you could sit on the stump and..... right down the hole she goes.

 

[calamari]

My late and much lamented mate, when he'd get a call to come deal with a tree across the road, at 2 in the morning of a still July night, would always say "It will be a big oak." - and it almost always was. I have no theory as to why (though one came down in the middle of a still warm July day right in front of my car once...) - and neither did he - but he was usually right. Though it was a silver maple that killed him.

It seems all the trees that have catastrophic failures have them in the summer here. It's when they are the heaviest having taken up as much water as they can for growth and even though the ground may be like concrete, it can't support the weight. They don't fall in the winter when they're dormant and their lightest when the soils are moist and have the least strength. Why they like to do it at night, I have no idea but it sure seems that way.
Root rot is common here too such that what seems like a relatively healthy tree suddenly falls over with no root ball. One did that recently falling over and taking out a power pole. It happened just as a landscape truck was driving by after turning onto the road. The tree fell right in front of the truck and the power pole fell into the gap between the truck and the trailer he had his equipment in. Three guys were stuck inside because the power lines were draped over the cab of the truck. They should have all bought lottery tickets.