Round Filing

[Rx7man]

Have a square semi skip i hand filed to touch up ,rakes are set real good right now ,I will have to measure them see where they are at ,was squaring up some 14 inch alder on the mill last night ,could cut one handed and it was real smooth ,the weight of the saw was all it needed to feed ,Maybe i will take some pics of this chain ,it sure works good on one of my hybrid 440's

Edit i also did a dumbass move ,put the chain on backwards on the 660 ,took me a bit to figure out why it was cutting so slow ,lol

so YOU'RE the reason newer chainsaws have an indicator for which direction you should mount the chain! I haven't done that.. YET., but I've done lots of other things ass backwards.. Like attempting to put the air hose on the milling end of the die grinder :O

I think the usual definition of self feeding is you don't have to press down on the saw for it to cut, which, assuming you're not getting chatter, is good for bar life.

 

[Moparmyway]

I think the usual definition of self feeding is you don't have to press down on the saw for it to cut

There is something intoxicating about a high revving saw that just pulls itself through a cut on its own, without pushing down !!!

 

[mdavlee]

This chain was pretty close.

Square filed chain:

 

[Rx7man]

I just did more mods to the wild husky 65, and windowed the piston, etc.. she really screams now compared to the putt puttt putt of the stock saw (I gotta keep it stock so I know how the difference feels)

 

[Gypo Logger]

Raker height is an important part of the whole thing. I never go lower than 20 thou, unless the chain is off the reel. Too low rakers guarantees a shorter life to the bar and all moving parts.
John

 

[Trx250r180]

Seems like can get away with more raker with square because it has less hook on the top plate,that hook seems to increase the grabbiness on my round chains

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here is a cutter ground with a modified grinding wheel

 

[WKEND LUMBERJAK]

Here is a cutter ground with a modified grinding wheelView attachment 409393

Been following this thread since it started. John how did you modify the wheel.

 

[Moparmyway]

Raker height is an important part of the whole thing. I never go lower than 20 thou, unless the chain is off the reel. Too low rakers guarantees a shorter life to the bar and all moving parts.
John

IMHO, to stick with this rule is only guaranteeing that your chain (if kept out of the dirt) will not need sharpening as often.
Setting rakers to a depth that the tooth can handle is one thing, but not taking advantage of sharp tooth means longer cutting times and probably more fuel. Might not matter to a firewood cutter, but definitely matters in felling, especially on a windy day when you might need to make a faster cut. Also could matter to a climber, as their conditions vary immensely.

Too low of a raker will cause the clutch to heat up and wear, it will wear out the cutter faster, and will tend to bog a saw as well as cause chatter and vibration.

As already stated, everything must work together to work well. To handicap one area could mean a handicap to all other areas as well. Setting raker height to me is like porting a saw, in that each saw needs to be looked at individually for timing and machining, as does each chain. Each chain must be set on an individual basis. Someone who runs a large hook on round needs a taller raker height (or lower setting ie. .020)than someone who runs less hook, which can get away with a shorter raker height (or taller raker setting ie. .030)

 

[Gypo Logger]

Been following this thread since it started. John how did you modify the wheel.

I took a 3/16" grinding wheel and swung it over as far as the grinder would go, then I dressed the wheel flat on the bottom and dressed the side for about 2 degrees.

 

[Gypo Logger]

IMHO, to stick with this rule is only guaranteeing that your chain (if kept out of the dirt) will not need sharpening as often.
Setting rakers to a depth that the tooth can handle is one thing, but not taking advantage of sharp tooth means longer cutting times and probably more fuel. Might not matter to a firewood cutter, but definitely matters in felling, especially on a windy day when you might need to make a faster cut. Also could matter to a climber, as their conditions vary immensely.

Too low of a raker will cause the clutch to heat up and wear, it will wear out the cutter faster, and will tend to bog a saw as well as cause chatter and vibration.

As already stated, everything must work together to work well. To handicap one area could mean a handicap to all other areas as well. Setting raker height to me is like porting a saw, in that each saw needs to be looked at individually for timing and machining, as does each chain. Each chain must be set on an individual basis. Someone who runs a large hook on round needs a taller raker height (or lower setting ie. .020)than someone who runs less hook, which can get away with a shorter raker height (or taller raker setting ie. .030)

I cant speak for other race chain builders, but at least 3 of the ones I know told me to stay at 20 thou and use gearing to get their chain speed in the wood.
I know racing is different than general cutting but a lot of the same rules apply.
In my quest to build faster chain I would stone the cutters on my square ground work chain. Dennis Cahoon laughed about that. lol, but it worked.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I could have used more raker.

 

[Moparmyway]

I cant speak for other race chain builders, but at least 3 of the ones I know told me to stay at 20 thou and use gearing to get their chain speed in the wood.

I understand perfectly, but there still remains one constant..... RPM
A 7 tooth drive may be too little chainspeed
An 8 tooth drive may be too much torque lost
What other choice do we have ?

 

[Trx250r180]

It would be nice to see a pic Brian.
Any yes, if we haven't put a chain on backwards we haven't worked in the woods. Lol

Here is that chain ,looks like ,my .030 guage fits good for measuring ,i will not touch the rakers or gullets for about 3 sharpenings now ,looks like i got some beak going on ,some have more than this one ,maybe that aids the feed ,maybe not who knows ,i am not the best filer but it cuts ok

 

[Gypo Logger]

I understand perfectly, but there still remains one constant..... RPM
A 7 tooth drive may be too little chainspeed
An 8 tooth drive may be too much torque lost
What other choice do we have ?

A shorter bar or more mods. lol
Low rakers contribute a lot to peening of the tie straps which pound the sprocket, which stretches the chain, which causes chain throw, which causes chipping of the bar, which causes crooked cuts.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here is that chain ,looks like ,my .030 guage fits good for measuring ,i will not touch the rakers or gullets for about 3 sharpenings now ,looks like i got some beak going on ,some have more than this one ,maybe that aids the feed ,maybe not who knows ,i am not the best filer but it cuts ok View attachment 409441 View attachment 409442 View attachment 409444 View attachment 409445

Ive heard a beak is ok as it enters the wood better. It tends to dull quicker though. Your way better at hand filing sq. than I.

 

[Philbert]

A 7 tooth drive may be too little chainspeed An 8 tooth drive may be too much torque lost What other choice do we have ?

Just thinking out loud here . . . what about dropping down to .325? Keep your speed or torque, but increase the number of teeth per inch . . .

. . . i am not the best filer but it cuts ok . . .

That's what matters!

Philbert

 

[Trx250r180]

Ive heard a beak is ok as it enters the wood better. It tends to dull quicker though. Your way better at hand filing sq. than I.

Here is ground chain off the razur2 with blue wheel ,the machine is much better than my hands and bad eyes ,you can see the couple sharpenings by the steps ,next sharpen i will file out the gullets ,both those chains have been used and still have a nice edge

 

[Moparmyway]

Just thinking out loud here . . . what about dropping down to .325? Keep your speed or torque, but increase the number of teeth per inch . . .
Philbert

That might be a great idea on a race, but not so good for work .............. definately something to be considered though !

 

[Moparmyway]

A shorter bar or more mods. lol

LOL ..........

Low rakers contribute a lot to peening of the tie straps which pound the sprocket, which stretches the chain, which causes chain throw, which causes chipping of the bar, which causes crooked cuts.

I aint as experienced as you in cutting, but I noticed that high rakers and/or a dull chain causes those results.

Are you saying that a chain with a .035 raker will hammer the tie strap and peen it over more than a chain with a .020 raker that gets dogged or pushed through the cut ?