Safe rope use to guide a falling tree.

[northmanlogging]

couple things, get the rope as high as possible. but still in solid wood.

9/16 samson stable braid, or even 1/2 will do just fine, not some hardware store garbage but good rigging rope.

While your tractor may have the stones to pull it over, it might not, so if possible, place a snatch block redirect in the general direction you want the tree to go, then run the line out to where the tractor is well out of danger if things go wrong. This does 2 important things, gets the direction of pull in relation to the tractor lower, more often then not putting additional down force on the wheels, and if thing do go wrong will pull the tractor, and rider farther away from the danger. and preferable facing down hill or on solid ground with lots of room to run.

as for pulling this off (pun intended?) a winch or some other form of mechanical brake on the pull line is a wise choice, but not always practical.
the wiser thing to do is have someone drive the tractor for you, put a small amount of tension on the line, mostly to make sure everything is snug and no unforeseen hang ups but not enough to put significant tension on the tree, make your face cut, and start your back cut, have the tractor pilot put gentle pressure as you make your back cut, when your happy with the cut (leave hold wood) have tractor jockey ease it over.

A bigger tractor would help, a winch would be better, a come-a-long still better, but we use what we got

If your concerned about chairing, as you should be, bore through the middle of the hold wood, leaving "posts" on either side, I generally do this from the face side, then make my back cut, it doesn't matter if they line up, but it does relieve a great deal of tension and will usually hold a tree together.

 

[Bearcreek]

I just noticed it hasn't been mentioned, but never ever attach to the back of a tractor or truck.
1. The upward pull will lift the rear, reducing traction, and sometimes in the case of a tractor popping a wheelie.
2. The equipment operator doesn't have a good view of the saw operator.

That depends on a variety of factors, size and amount of lean of tree compared to size and weight of the machine being the most significant. I've pulled many, many trees from the back of a wide variety of machines, ranging in size from a 500 lb ATV to a 60,000+ lb. crane. Obviously communication is important. Tractors can be nice in that regard because the operator usually has an unobstructed view behind him.

Not really sure how a rope pulling at an angle up from the rear hitch on a tractor would cause a wheelie. It's forcing the front wheels down in that case, not up, which is why 4x4 is significantly better for that application.

Pulling from the front can work well, depending on the machine, the angles, the tree, etc. Most tractors are heavier in the back than the front though, so that needs to be considered.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I have a bunch of tall poplar that are nearing end of life, and are leaning the wrong way to fell normally without putting house, barn, or shed at risk.

Check my calculations:
A 2 foot diameter poplar with have a stump area about 3 square feet. 80 feet tall. Let's assume that the branches make up for the trunk taper and for weight purposes it is a cylinder. 240 cubic feet.

Wet poplar at 40 lbs/cuft gives me a mass of 9600 pounds -- about 5 tons

If it leans 15 degrees, (over estimate) then there is about 25% of that load is in the horizontal direction. 2400 lbs.

I have 150' 3/4" nylon solid braid) rope with a rated breaking strength of 20,000 pounds in new condition, with an eye splice on either end.

My thought is put a messenger line into the crown, draw the rope up and over, bring the eye down, and pass thorugh. Attach the other end to my tractor (Deuzt 55 hp -- weighs about 3 tons)

Coefficient of friction on a tractor tire on firm soil is aobut .5 So maximum force tractor can put on rope is about 3000 lbs.

So use the tractor to tension the rope until wheels start to skid, OR it stretches 8% (Estimate of elastic stretch. I have an inquiry with the rope maker for this number)

My plan was to make the wedge cut first, then tension the rope, then make the back cut.

Is this a reasonable approach?

Maths are loose? By trunk description I believe you are talking cottonwood for the biggest ones. I figured they had to be 50lb per cu ft. It came up 49 for wet weight. Not too many hardwoods under 50lb
Estimate the flair after or if you cut it at 2ft you are leaving about 14 cu ft on the stump (700LB). Now convert cone to cylindrical. 2ft by 0 at 80ft. Average 1ft X 80FT = 80 CU FT..BUT it's not square. Now you cut 22 percent for easy maths.
62 cu ft and we already took care of the flair. 3,100 lb. I can't see you having close to that in branches especially if it is dying? Usually the bottom 40% will outweigh the top 60% with all the branches. Anyway call it 6000 lb but i'd be surprised if it was 5,000. You would probably have to be leaning more than 15 degrees to hit your 25% of gross weight but there is some variables there. If you went with your 25% then you are at 1,500 on the high estimate.

Two ways you can move the tree further with the same distance of rope pulled and that's pulling the tree from lower. Just make sure there is more weight below the rope than above and you will still have lots of leverage from that height. Other way to really speed it up is with a deep undercut. Just don,t do it when you are wedging.

Tomorrow I will explain a few difference ways to deal with those.
There are cuts that you can make that will keep them on the stump a lot longer. Loading them up as you want to do is bad practice.

 

[ArtB]

-anchor, truck or tractor, and block anchor MUST all be in a straight line! .

Disagree with that comment. I always have my truck or dozer about 15 degrees off the straight line of the main block section. I have BROKEN a 3/4" wire rope choker and the stored energy in the other parts of the wire rope cable shot the blocks and all 25 FEET! Being NOT inline, did not hit the truck. I also always operate the winch with remote switch with me another 10 feet off to the side .
You can see lots of stories on line about broken truck window from broken rope, especially nylon.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

That depends on a variety of factors, size and amount of lean of tree compared to size and weight of the machine being the most significant. I've pulled many, many trees from the back of a wide variety of machines, ranging in size from a 500 lb ATV to a 60,000+ lb. crane. Obviously communication is important. Tractors can be nice in that regard because the operator usually has an unobstructed view behind him.

Not really sure how a rope pulling at an angle up from the rear hitch on a tractor would cause a wheelie. It's forcing the front wheels down in that case, not up, which is why 4x4 is significantly better for that application.

Pulling from the front can work well, depending on the machine, the angles, the tree, etc. Most tractors are heavier in the back than the front though, so that needs to be considered.

The wheelies I have seen are usually with lower angle pulls where lug tires momentarily slip and then grab traction.

 

[chipper1]

This is fun.
Most important part of this job and the most crucial is having someone there to film it .

 

[Little Wood]

The idea of using rope stretch is fine, because it will provide continuing tension in the right dorection...for a while. You did calculation of required initial tension to overecome lean...as tree moves, even in almost-correct direction, rope stretch will decrease and so will tension...you could calculate if the diminishing tension will be sufficient to maintain motion in the correct direction. The way to get more movement with less decrease in tension with a springy rope is to make the rope longer.
You could do this with a block, but better is to choose a more distant anchor, because then the pull will be more horizontal.
Which brings me to the idea of using a tractor as an anchor. Don't! Your calculation appears to assess the tracto'r effectivenes as an anchor as realed to its weight and coefficient of traction. But 1) traction will be unpredictably influenced by looseness/moistness/vegetation etc under each wheel, and will change abruptly if the tractor starts to drag. 2) and more important, the upward component of the pull is taking normal force away from the tire contact patches.
I agree with the comment that this is not a 1-man job. My preferred anchor is another tree. If you have a winch on a piece of equipment, here is the safe way to use it. Chain the tractor or truck to a tree on the end opposite the winch. Run winch cable from winch through a block chained to the base of another tree, and from there up to the tree you are pulling down. The truck-anchor, truck or tractor, and block anchor MUST all be in a straight line! . A wire rope will have little stretch, so you have to have enough line speed to maintain tension until the tree is well on the way down in the right direction. You may beeen an additional static line off to the side to another anchor to prevent tree from going the wrong way. Always consider how the distances nad line lengths will change as the tree moves.

Eliminate the line speed problem by attaching some weight midway on the pulling line. A 200# block of firewood will not be enough to make the initial difference but will maintain tension consistently until it hits the ground.

 

[dboyd351]

Disagree with that comment. I always have my truck or dozer about 15 degrees off the straight line of the main block section. I have BROKEN a 3/4" wire rope choker and the stored energy in the other parts of the wire rope cable shot the blocks and all 25 FEET! Being NOT inline, did not hit the truck. I also always operate the winch with remote switch with me another 10 feet off to the side .
You can see lots of stories on line about broken truck window from broken rope, especially nylon.

it is a good idea to throw a blanket over the rope to take the rubberband effect out

 

[sgbotsford]

If you could use cable that would be good. I have alot of bullrope it's called that we got for the job but never used it. Maybe 1/2 or 5/8. Says for arborists and loggers. But when cable is available I always choose cable. Also how big is your tractor. One thing I learned is that when you hook high up in the tree 15-25' the tractor looses traction as it pulls tight the rear end lifts up alil. Worse case scenario tree goes backwards with an operator on the equipment. Lots of youtube video of that. I have even used chain comalongs before I would tie off to tractor. Tractors I have are 9n 600 series and 900 series

Tractor weighs about 6000 pounds. I can put another thousand in the bucket, run the rope under the bucket. As load comes on, the tension tries to shift the weight to the back wheels, increasing rear traction, but decreasing front traction. Ford 9n's had weights of 2000 to 3000 pounds, were only 2WD. This is also why I'm using a 150 foot rope

I'm doing this solo. I don't have the option of having someone on the tractor while I make the cut.

 

[sgbotsford]

Eliminate the line speed problem by attaching some weight midway on the pulling line. A 200# block of firewood will not be enough to make the initial difference but will maintain tension consistently until it hits the ground.

Oo! Oo! Clever idea. Further, I can use the dihedral angle to calculate the tension on the rope. Thank you sir.

 

[Brufab]

Anytime you can have another guy with you while doing any type of tree work is a bonus. Safety wise. I always try and have someone with me. It's as important as having a wedge. I don't even start my saw unless I have a couple wedges. Seen to many weekenders all jammed up because they don't have wedges or a spare bar and chain. Just the power in that little piece of plastic and a hammer is incredible.

 

[Brufab]

Also FWIW I have seen the tops of dead trees break off while the tree was falling and land a considerable distance from where it would of landed if still part of the tree. Hope your able to have a buddy with you. Good luck and happy sawing!

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Tractor weighs about 6000 pounds. I can put another thousand in the bucket, run the rope under the bucket. As load comes on, the tension tries to shift the weight to the back wheels, increasing rear traction, but decreasing front traction. Ford 9n's had weights of 2000 to 3000 pounds, were only 2WD. This is also why I'm using a 150 foot rope

I'm doing this solo. I don't have the option of having someone on the tractor while I make the cut.

Oh ********. You have the option. You are choosing to do it solo.

 

[dboyd351]

Oh ********. You have the option. You are choosing to do it solo.

Agreed. And it is never the safest move. If nothing else, a second person could call EMS if something went really wrong.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

This guy makes Rube Goldberg look like a minimalist.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Tractor weighs about 6000 pounds. I can put another thousand in the bucket, run the rope under the bucket. As load comes on, the tension tries to shift the weight to the back wheels, increasing rear traction, but decreasing front traction. Ford 9n's had weights of 2000 to 3000 pounds, were only 2WD. This is also why I'm using a 150 foot rope

I'm doing this solo. I don't have the option of having someone on the tractor while I make the cut.

I do much of my work solo,so what. I on the other hand have many years of experience climbing moving trees. You will have more when you are finished. Your calculations are not usable or valid. It makes no difference what you place in your tractor bucket as that may make your tractor a little more stable or reduce wheelies. One decent come a long will out pull your tractor. As you pull with your tractor your tractor will have more unsprung weight because the tree is trying to lift the tractor up reducing the friction that the tractor is trying to make. The other factor that has not been mentioned much is whether you are pulling exactly apposite of the lean otherwise your tree could fall sideways which could cause problems with your scheme. When pulling trees over I most often use a come a long or seven. I pulled a tree down a couple of years ago where I needed about 30,000 lbs of force so I used seven with snatch blocks to do it. The basic approach is to go up about 2/3 the distance to the top which has been mentioned. Put tension on the tree to determine if it moves. If it does then make the undercut about 50%. If tree moves more then put more tension on it. When the rope or cable is tight tie several 100 lb weights on the line to keep tension on the line as the tree is moving. A two hundred lb weight can exert up to a 1000 lbs of force because of the angle it is pulling from. When you make your back cut the cut should immediately start to open a little. If it does then you need to tighten the rope or cable up a bit before proceeding. You will need to cut about one inch then tighten rope until tree is down. It will be lots of fun. Thanks

 

[Westboastfaller]

My worst tree is one only about 15" in diameter, but has a serious lean to the SSE. I'd like it to fall NNE, but will accept anything north of east. Attaching at the 2/3 point, I need to have enough northward tension to keep it moving that way for about 7-10 feet.

As Ted has just said, proper rope practice is 180 off the lean. So do you have room to pull the worst tree described above to NNW instead of NNE? This way you are eliminating the side lean and that way they aren't going to peel off to the side if your felling cuts are correct. There is more than one way to skin a cat (But I just prefer Husqvarna)
You are describing 90 degrees with a serious lean. Is it down a hill? I could teach you a felling cut that would make those trees hold on a long time.. AND a drop-snap back cut that are meant for back leaners that would allow you to walk away and hop on your tractor without any forward tension needed. We use it for pushing trees over with another opposed to other methods.The question is..do you want to learn better ways to deal with these? Sounds like most have forward lean. 90% of the trees in interior country up north can be laid out naturally, there between the south east and north east.

 

[arathol]

I can put another thousand in the bucket, run the rope under the bucket.

Bad idea. Thats how ropes break....and please don't say you can raise the bucket.....

 

[chipper1]

As Ted has just said, proper rope practice is 180 of the lean. So do you have room to pull the worst tree described above to NNW instead of NNE? This way you are eliminating the side lean and that way they aren't going to peel off to the side if your felling cuts are correct. There is more than one way to skin a cat (But I just prefer Husqvarna)
You are describing 90 degrees with a serious lean. Is it down a hill? I could teach you a felling cut that would make those trees hold on a long time.. AND a drop-snap back cut that are meant for back leaners that would allow you to walk away and hop on your tractor without any forward tension needed. We use it for pushing trees over with another opposed to other methods.The question is..do you want to learn better ways to deal with these? Sounds like most have forward lean. 90% of the trees in interior country up north can be laid out naturally, there between the south east and north east.

This .

AND a drop-snap back cut that are meant for back leaners that would allow you to walk away and hop on your tractor without any forward tension needed. We use it for pushing trees over with another opposed to other methods.

Especially this.
Although he should have enough tension on the line so the hinge doesn't tear.
Maybe it's how this one was done, ignore the cough, but that is funny.

 

[northmanlogging]

Tractor weighs about 6000 pounds. I can put another thousand in the bucket, run the rope under the bucket. As load comes on, the tension tries to shift the weight to the back wheels, increasing rear traction, but decreasing front traction. Ford 9n's had weights of 2000 to 3000 pounds, were only 2WD. This is also why I'm using a 150 foot rope

I'm doing this solo. I don't have the option of having someone on the tractor while I make the cut.

9ns are about 3700, more with a loader

However what they don't have is a reliable starter or brakes in fact the brakes especially on the 9n are so bad I wouldn't trust them on flat ground.

You do this solo with a 9n, it will go badly, how badly depends on how much the tree takes out and which what it ultimately falls.

Really, most tractors do not have reliable enough brakes to even think about attempting solo, including modern stuff.