Saw techniques and cutting/felling safety

[ShoerFast]

This would be a good place for sharing links, comments on saw and cutting techniques and cutting/felling safety.

Here is felling book from NZ.

http://www.osh.dol.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/treefell.pdf

 

[Timberhauler]

I'm not sure I can handle another tree felling thread..:bang: :bang:

 

[Tzed250]

thought Ralph said keep it outa here:bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[BC_Logger]

thats a good book , it goes into detail quite a bit

 

[chainsawworld]

ya cant learn good felling and limbing practices over the net (though i do know a dope at work that thinks ya can get it all over the net). hands on training from a pro is the way to go. i designed a coarse called Woods And Chainsaw Safety (WACS). it covers maintinance of your equipment, entering and exiting the woods, felling, limbing and trail marking. how to use the sights on the saw, bore cutting, limb locks and so on. all you need to be safe. i stand right in your pocket as you pratice these skills so i can tell you exactly what you are doing right and wrong. be safe

 

[ents]

Chainsaw world ---- come on down (spoken like Bob Barkers announcer). And bring WACs with you, I could REALLY use it (3 yrs. at felling and still a rookie). I attended a brief chainsaw saftey seminar last yr. but it was a "watch me do it" not a hands on. I did learn a lot but I bet a hands on environment is a lot better.

 

[BC_Logger]

ya cant learn good felling and limbing practices over the net (though i do know a dope at work that thinks ya can get it all over the net). hands on training from a pro is the way to go. i designed a coarse called Woods And Chainsaw Safety (WACS). it covers maintinance of your equipment, entering and exiting the woods, felling, limbing and trail marking. how to use the sights on the saw, bore cutting, limb locks and so on. all you need to be safe. i stand right in your pocket as you pratice these skills so i can tell you exactly what you are doing right and wrong. be safe

it gives you a starting point to learn from it also gives you a perspective in falling methods were to place , I do agree that there's is no replacement for good old practical work but you can still learn from a book .

If you take a trade , teaching, forestry, ect...... theres all ways book work

 

[Gologit]

ya cant learn good felling and limbing practices over the net (though i do know a dope at work that thinks ya can get it all over the net). hands on training from a pro is the way to go. i designed a coarse called Woods And Chainsaw Safety (WACS). it covers maintinance of your equipment, entering and exiting the woods, felling, limbing and trail marking. how to use the sights on the saw, bore cutting, limb locks and so on. all you need to be safe. i stand right in your pocket as you pratice these skills so i can tell you exactly what you are doing right and wrong. be safe

Would you please explain "limb locks"?

 

[Engineeringnerd]

On page 43 it shows a heavy leaner where you cut out the wedge on the fall side, bore above the wedge to establish the hinge, then make a final cut below the bore cut. Why this lower cut? I've just either bored out the back side for a light leaner, or tripped it from the back side level with the bore on a heavy leaner. I'm assuming it is to prevent the tree from carrying your saw away. Anybody done this/have opinions?

Also on page 21 it shows cutting a tree larger than the bar. I think he messed up by showing the wedge in the 2nd cut instead of the first cut. Also, what is the recommended orientation of the saw at the beginning of cut 1 and cut 2? I'm guessing he's recommending dogging in at the hinge on cut one till you achieve the correct hinge, then flipping the saw over and keeping the bar partially in cut 1 while making cut 2. That's the way Dent explains it, but this guy doesn't show the saw to clarify.

General question: I always try to have a bar long enough to make it through the tree. It seems that making two cuts to fall, you could end up with the tree going over too early with too much hinge on the 2nd side, causing the tree to be pulled in that direction (especially if you are wedging in cut 1). Any tips from guys who regularly cut trees with bars shorter than the diameter of the tree?

 

[chainsawworld]

a limb lock is two cuts made on a limb one on top and one under a short distance apart as to release tension but to keep the limb "pinned" down so it does not swing up to hit the cutter or sweep out to take your legs out. as the cutter continues to lop the top the tension will also release slowly or when the skidder pulls the stick the tension will release.
stumps should always be flat and level from the bottom of the face cut to the bore cut behind the hinge and backwards. if a backstrap is left to allow wedge placement it should but cut off below the back cut.
this is only a brief narrative and not actual instruction. i am not liable for injuries should anyone get hurt or worse attempting these practices(darn shame i had to add that). marty

 

[clearance]

a limb lock is two cuts made on a limb one on top and one under a short distance apart as to release tension but to keep the limb "pinned" down so it does not swing up to hit the cutter or sweep out to take your legs out. as the cutter continues to lop the top the tension will also release slowly or when the skidder pulls the stick the tension will release.
stumps should always be flat and level from the bottom of the face cut to the bore cut behind the hinge and backwards. if a backstrap is left to allow wedge placement it should but cut off below the back cut.
this is only a brief narrative and not actual instruction. i am not liable for injuries should anyone get hurt or worse attempting these practices(darn shame i had to add that). marty

Are you saying the backcut is to be level with the undercut? I don't borecut very much, usually only when I am bucking, but I know the backcut has to be higher than the undercut, always.

 

[Tzed250]

not with open face...

 

[Ianab]

I'm assuming it is to prevent the tree from carrying your saw away. Anybody done this/have opinions?

Yes, if the tree is leaning heavily the holding wood will rip out before you can cut right through. If you cut at or above the bore cut there is a chance it will grab your saw if it doesn't break cleanly. If you are a few inches below you can usually cut right though the holding strap and have it break off the long-grain faily cleanly.

Any tips from guys who regularly cut trees with bars shorter than the diameter of the tree?

If the tree has only a slight lean then you can use the two backcut method. You cut one side, tap the wedges into place, but not drive them in hard. Just enough to stop the tree sitting back on your bar. Then cut the 2nd side up to the hinge, insert a couple more wedges and start driving. If the tree is leaning and you expect it to fall before you get the hinge cut properly, then you should use the bore cut from each side, then cut the holding strap. Wedges wont be needed in that case.

I agree that reading a book is not a substitute for a proper training course, but it's a heck of a lot better than having people going out and cutting trees any old way because they dont know any better. The booklet is written for NZ conditions where large and leaning trees are common in old farm shelter belts. These are often cut by farmers, firewood cutters and non-professional guys like me, and people get hurt doing it. OSH take the attitude that people are going to cut trees whatever they tell people, so it's better to provide them with some good info.

We regulary take down 50"+ cypress and pine trees for milling and firewood using the techniques shown there and 28" bars on our saws. Looking at some of the stumps I see around the countryside, more people need to read that booklet

Cheers

Ian

 

[joesawer]

To me limb lock means something conflicting the limbs of the tree I'm falling and preventing it from moving forward.

General question: I always try to have a bar long enough to make it through the tree. It seems that making two cuts to fall, you could end up with the tree going over too early with too much hinge on the 2nd side, causing the tree to be pulled in that direction (especially if you are wedging in cut 1). Any tips from guys who regularly cut trees with bars shorter than the diameter of the tree?
Here is a picture of a tree that shows what you are talking about. I rocked my chain just before i cut this tree so the mismatched cuts contrast well. (who would of thought an ugly mismatched cut would ever be a good thing?)
The tree had a side lean to the left, so I cut up that side first then cut the rignt side as much as I felt comfortable and then tipped it with a wedge.
If you need to wedge a tree you don't have to worry about it going to soon, it wont go untill you move it forward with the wedge. The only time you have to worry about the tree falling before you have it cut up, is when it leans the way you are falling it and if you are pulling a tree and the operator or ground man pulls it over before you are ready.

 

[Engineeringnerd]

I would love to see a video of someone doing a 2 cut fall (bar smaller than diameter of tree) correctly.

Looking at Beranek's book, he shows making the first cut by dogging in and working towards the hinge. Then he shows placing the saw upside down (cutting with the top of the bar) and pointing the bar at the hinge (perpendicular to the hinge) and dogging around to the hinge.

How do you keep from mutilating the center of the hinge, given the bar is longer than 1/2 the diameter of the tree?

 

[joesawer]

You don't have to dog the saw in. When you make cut A make sure that you leave a good hinge and that you are deep enough that D will reach. you may only need a few inches or you may need the whole bar.
Cuts B and C should not quit reach the hinge. They get rid of a lot of the volume and should provide a good straight kerf to D.
D should intersect with A and finish the hinge.
Clear as mud?

 

[chainsawworld]

i have had to actually bore into the center of the face cut and hollow out the center to make a safe "double-back" cut. marty


ps aint yas gald im back to add to the confusion? lol

 

[stihl 440]

2-cut trees

OK, if you're serious about wanting to fell trees better, then you might want to look into a GOL taining course. I've never taken the course, but I want to. I've been following their thechniques for about 4 years now. But on double cut backcut trees I have a trick. One of my logging buddies taught me this. When you're at where you want the strap, dog the saw in and rotate the bar until the nose of the bar comes out the other side enough so that you can stick the bar in from the other side. Also watch you're strap thickness while doing this, make sure to keep it thick enough so it will hold the tree. And then go around the other side and stick you're bar in the cut the nose made, and finish the backcut up to the hinge. I've used this method for trees MORE than double the length of the bar. And I also got another way of cutting the strap. I cut mine at a slight angle. I line up the bar of the saw with the 2 backcut cuts, at the 2 cuts level you don't want it above them. I cut the strap and pull the saw out at the same time. That way you're bar is out of the cut and the tree can't take it and fling it or set back on it. If you have a strong enough strap setup you can pound the wedges in so they have some pressure on them, this preloads the tree in the direction you want it to go. If you can't understand this, it's still early. I'll explain more when I wake up. :rockn:

 

[Tzed250]

GOL course is great! I would recomend it to anybody.

 

[joesawer]

Stih 440, your boring through to leave strap in the back is a great technique.
I simply cannot understand why you would pound wedges in when you are all ready having to make sure that your strap is strong enough to hold up the weight of the tree. I have seen this recommended in AS before but it baffles me.