Saw techniques and cutting/felling safety

[clearance]

Excellent posts Smokechase. The B.C. fallers and buckers manual (written by westcoast fallers and buckers) is pretty clear on snags or other danger trees. With snags you must 1) use a saw thats bar is bigger than the tree 2) put in the cuts at a hieght comfortable to you, so you can easily look up 3) only wedge it if you have to and only then if you determine it can take it 4) use a deep undercut 1/2 of the tree, on short fat snags, over 1/2. All the other rules apply as well, escape paths, standing in the right spot, etc.

 

[Tzed250]

To add to this...And there will probably be a hornets nest afterwards....GOL focuses on harvesting valuable trees. The emphasis is on safety, correct method, and efficiency. The GOL classes that I took were taught by Soren Eriksson and took place on Mead/Westvaco property in southern Ohio. During the classes I remember that a good deal of emphasis was place on taking inventory of the top, looking for dead or loose braches and other hazards. During felling however, Soren believed it was not a good idea to look up to much. His theory was that if a branch came out of the tree that he wanted it to land square on the top of the hardhat, and not in his face. I know the PNW guys are not going to agree with most of what the GOL program has to offer. The timber that GOL is geared towards is Eastern hardwoods and softwoods, not the large softwoods of the PNW. GOL techniques have served me well, and for those with limited experience working in the woods I think it is time and money well spent.

 

[clearance]

During felling however, Soren believed it was not a good idea to look up to much.

.opcorn:

 

[Tzed250]

.

 

[blis]

Blis: if a tree's dead or on fire, why does it need to be cut low?

Point taken, was thinking only about green wood

Blis:
Go to one knee. This is for 'safe' trees. Your back it still vertical. Does requiure some acquired skill but you can look up except when in tree wells from snow etc.

To generalize:
1) Solid green tree, no observed hazards. Cut low. Most commercial cutters will have tree after tree like this. Particularly in second growth stands. I suspect that in Finland, to some degree, there are not the numerous snags that we have in our 'unhealthy forests' of the Western US.
......

True that, over here 99.9% of what we cut is green wood, no dead trees standing around or such things, propably the reason why no one here thinks 'bout widow makers and such... But as said, there isnt dead trees or trees that have have loose limbs and such, expect after storms there may be few....

That pic shows how our forests are, that is "young" forest, time for first thinning (we usually clear the area with clearing saw first, then 1-3 thinnings and then cut all wood then the circle begins again)... Hardly anything falling to watch for (expect snow)...

 

[blis]

Blis: if a tree's dead or on fire, why does it need to be cut low?

Point taken, was thinking only about green wood

Blis:
Go to one knee. This is for 'safe' trees. Your back it still vertical. Does requiure some acquired skill but you can look up except when in tree wells from snow etc.

To generalize:
1) Solid green tree, no observed hazards. Cut low. Most commercial cutters will have tree after tree like this. Particularly in second growth stands. I suspect that in Finland, to some degree, there are not the numerous snags that we have in our 'unhealthy forests' of the Western US.
......

True that, over here 99.9% of what we cut is green wood, no dead trees standing around or such things, propably the reason why no one here thinks 'bout widow makers and such... But as said, there isnt dead trees or trees that have have loose limbs and such, expect after storms there may be few....

That pic shows how our forests are, that is "young" forest, time for first thinning (we usually clear the area with clearing saw first, then 1-3 thinnings and then cut all wood then the circle begins again)... Hardly anything falling to watch for (expect snow)...

 

[GASoline71]

We call those "peckerpoles" over here...

Gary

 

[SWE#Kipp]

We call those "peckerpoles" over here...

Gary

yeah, yeah just rubb it in will ya ,,,,,,

 

[MS-310]

I am a firefighter in MI (not an forest firefighter) we dont get trained how to cut an tree down....dumb I know. We deal alot with the DNR fire guys when we have woods fires and I tell you what, that job would be fun. You guys have Huge balls to be doing that, I wouldnt mind doing it.
So what is an "open" face..... the only way I know how to cut is to cut an wedge on the side you want it to fall and about 2" higher cut the back cut and wait till it falls. Is that an Open face????

 

[GASoline71]

I am a firefighter in MI (not an forest firefighter) we dont get trained how to cut an tree down....dumb I know. We deal alot with the DNR fire guys when we have woods fires and I tell you what, that job would be fun. You guys have Huge balls to be doing that, I wouldnt mind doing it.
So what is an "open" face..... the only way I know how to cut is to cut an wedge on the side you want it to fall and about 2" higher cut the back cut and wait till it falls. Is that an Open face????

Open face = Conventional cut

Gary

 

[chainsawworld]

the hinge has all the control when felling. once the hinge snaps control is lost. the hinge also holds the tree in place and stops it from rolling during the limbing process.
as far as the the back cut being lower, the bottom of the facecut is level with the bore cut and backcut. marty

 

[royta]

Open face = Conventional cut

Gary

Not according to OSHA. Don't jump me over this, as I have no freaking clue what the different cuts are. I have only fell one or two trees, and that was 15 years ago when a friend and I were cutting oak trees down. I'm only going by what I read on their site.

So what is an "open" face..... the only way I know how to cut is to cut an wedge on the side you want it to fall and about 2" higher cut the back cut and wait till it falls. Is that an Open face????

Check this info out: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/cuts.html

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/mainpage.html

 

[Gologit]

the hinge has all the control when felling. once the hinge snaps control is lost. the hinge also holds the tree in place and stops it from rolling during the limbing process.
as far as the the back cut being lower, the bottom of the facecut is level with the bore cut and backcut. marty

How does the hinge hold the tree in place while you're limbing? And with limbing changing the forces at work on the tree would it be a good idea to trust the hinge at all? I've had trees that stayed butted on the stump jump and roll while limbing. Most of the stuff I drop winds up off of the stump. Maybe you should differentiate between different styles of falling so your readers don't get confused.

 

[GASoline71]

Not according to OSHA. Don't jump me over this, as I have no freaking clue what the different cuts are. I have only fell one or two trees, and that was 15 years ago when a friend and I were cutting oak trees down. I'm only going by what I read on their site.

Actually... I think an "open face" cut is slightly wider than a true Conventional face cut... say 45 degrees or more... but I could be wrong. (say it ain't so!)

Gary

 

[clearance]

as far as the the back cut being lower, the bottom of the facecut is level with the bore cut and backcut. marty

Wrong, the backcut is always to be higher than the undercut, this prevents the butt coming back. It is the rule here in B.C.. I wonder how you figure this is o.k.?

 

[GASoline71]

Wrong, the backcut is always to be higher than the undercut, this prevents the butt coming back. It is the rule here in B.C.. I wonder how you figure this is o.k.?

Obviously he's never seen "stump shot" before.opcorn:

Gary

 

[SawTroll]

How can you not be bent over when cutting stumps low as possible??

unless, your kneeling i see no other way but to bend down...

I don't think low stumps is the main issue in a fire-line........

 

[SawTroll]

Wrong, the backcut is always to be higher than the undercut, this prevents the butt coming back. It is the rule here in B.C.. I wonder how you figure this is o.k.?

Agree, even though I am not in BC or anything like it - the trees here are seldom more than 20"...........

 

[stihl 440]

stump shot

Gol teaches to make the backcut level with bottom of notch. I've used this method and not one tree in 4 years of using this method did I have a tree come back off the stump at me(besides you shouldn't be at the base of the tree watching it go down anyway, you should be escaping). I fell uphill a lot and they still haven't come back on me. But like I said you shouldn't be there watching it go down anyway, you should be runnin'. I know you PNW guys do things differently, you have a lot bigger trees. You guy's use the gap and humbolt faces in your trees. I understand, you wouldn't want to waste your time putting a open face in one of those big redwoods or firs.

 

[clearance]

Gol teaches to make the backcut level with bottom of notch. I've used this method and not one tree in 4 years of using this method did I have a tree come back off the stump at me(besides you shouldn't be at the base of the tree watching it go down anyway, you should be escaping). I fell uphill a lot and they still haven't come back on me. But like I said you shouldn't be there watching it go down anyway, you should be runnin'. I know you PNW guys do things differently, you have a lot bigger trees. You guy's use the gap and humbolt faces in your trees. I understand, you wouldn't want to waste your time putting a open face in one of those big redwoods or firs.

Wow, the B.C. govt. has recently made certification mandatory for fallers (logging only) and having the backcut below or level with the undercut is a fail on your test. Falling uphill is really not advised, it is a dangerous practice, for obviuos reasons. I am a c.u.a. (cerified utility arborist, trade cert. not the ISA), not a faller. But I try hard to follow proper procedure falling trees, no matter what size they are, they are to be cut the same. Small trees, little higher backcut, big trees, gets higher. I am glad gol is helping people but the standards for falling that were developed here, in my opinion are the best, I mean this is the home of coast logging, interior logging, most of the logging innovations happened here, some of the best fallers are here. The book, "fallers and buckers manual" published by the W.C.B. is the standard, it can probabaly be found online. look for it.