Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[CTYank]

Is rebuilding a carbeurator something that my son and I can learn? Is that reasonable? We watched a youtube video, so you know that makes us experts, right?

It's not just a matter of swapping some parts. Cleaning, especially of the microscopic metering restrictions, is critical. One good way is five minutes with some simple green or such in an ultrasonic cleaner. If all else fails, some spray-can gumout or such into adjustment screw holes. Do NOT apply any pressure more than a few psi anywhere, if you want to not destroy the carb.

A very good idea: take notes and pix on disassembly. Stuff like "gasket inside/outside metering/pump diaphragm". Can't overdo that.

It helps to have small fingers working on these tiny carbs. Of course, all the parts are tiny, and very easily lost. Forewarned is ...

 

[MustangMike]

Is rebuilding a carbeurator something that my son and I can learn? Is that reasonable? We watched a youtube video, so you know that makes us experts, right?


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That is how most of us learned how to do it. Make sure to keep it clean, and if your fuel tank is dirty dump it, and of course the gas filter is the first thing you change. Always do the simple things first, they often fix the problem w/ the fewest headaches.

Henry Ford: Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.

My twisted version: Often the difference between success and failure is persistence.

 

[zogger]

Is rebuilding a carbeurator something that my son and I can learn? Is that reasonable? We watched a youtube video, so you know that makes us experts, right?


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I have fairly good luck just cleaning carb and putting them back together, and then use new fuel lines and filters. Not all the time, but a lot of the times. There are miniscule teeny tiny screens inside the carbs, those get plugged quite easily. That's usually, but not always, the culprit, especially on saws not run a lot and allowed to sit up and dryout or run with bad dirty fuel or cracked fuel lines etc.

Take your time, take notes, snap pics as you disassemble, keep track of what goes where. They really don't have a ton of parts to them, just important on gasket and diaphragm placement. And carb kits will sometimes cover a few different models and have stuff you will use, and stuff you won't. You order carb kits by carb make and model, not saw make and model, much mo easier and cheaper and you get the right stuff then.

This is..one of those things if you could watch it done one time you would go, oh man, that's pretty easy. discovering it for yourself the first time will be harder.

Once you get the carb off, when you start to take it apart, a razor blade and wd40 will help a lot in getting it part without tearing gaskets.

man, I am a cheapskate....

 

[MustangMike]

Another member (Wood Doctor) has great results soaking the carb for 24 hours in gas/2cycle mix. Seems to clean things out.

 

[marcy-m]

Another member (Wood Doctor) has great results soaking the carb for 24 hours in gas/2cycle mix. Seems to clean things out.

Taking it off the saw and soaking it without opening it up?

This is one of the main reasons I want to try one of those non running saws. $20 for a saw that we can learn on- seems like a great deal. The sticking point is that we have to be reasonably sure the saw is saveable, and that brings up our inexperience...and round and round we go.

Is it similar to rebuilding another 2 cycle carb like a trimmer carb? We have one of those here that isn't starting.

I'm just thinking "out loud" here, so forgive me if this is really stupid, but....say a saw was run on pure gas and seized. I get for free or nearly free and take it apart. Sure enough the pistons or whatever saws have grooved the walls. If it can be made to start...why not run it until it dies? Will that even work or does grooving mean you can't get a good explosion since the gas air mix is off? I know that has to be the stupidest question, but it seems like it might work. I'm thinking this has got to be like me teaching the kids how to make bread, "You can get the flour, the sugar, the water not exactly right and still get good bread; but if you mess up on the salt or the yeast you might get a brick." Trying to determine what's going to likely leave me with a brick vs something usable.

Edited to add: you can mess up the amount of water but not the temp


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[zogger]

Taking it off the saw and soaking it without opening it up?

This is one of the main reasons I want to try one of those non running saws. $20 for a saw that we can learn on- seems like a great deal. The sticking point is that we have to be reasonably sure the saw is saveable, and that brings up our inexperience...and round and round we go.

Is it similar to rebuilding another 2 cycle carb like a trimmer carb? We have one of those here that isn't starting.

I'm just thinking "out loud" here, so forgive me if this is really stupid, but....say a saw was run on pure gas and seized. I get for free or nearly free and take it apart. Sure enough the pistons or whatever saws have grooved the walls. If it can be made to start...why not run it until it dies? Will that even work or does grooving mean you can't get a good explosion since the gas air mix is off? I know that has to be the stupidest question, but it seems like it might work. I'm thinking this has got to be like me teaching the kids how to make bread, "You can get the flour, the sugar, the water not exactly right and still get good bread; but if you mess up on the salt or the yeast you might get a brick." Trying to determine what's going to likely leave me with a brick vs something usable.

Edited to add: you can mess up the amount of water but not the temp


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Pulling the muffler helps a lot. Visually inspect the piston and cylinder, damage is damage, the tool might run now but won't last long and no sense further trashing the cylinder, as it might be salvageable caught early.

Now inspect the muffler itself, is the screen full of carbon, mud daubers build a nest in there? A plugged up muffler will give something a no start scenario real quick.

Enough! HAHAHAHAHA Get a cheap saw, get your hands dirty. Just think about what you are seeing. Analysis is 90% of repair.

 

[marcy-m]

Alright. Will do! Thanks!


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[marcy-m]

And I found the fiskars right next to my saw on the shelf instead of in the old shed with the other ax and maul. I think she likes it!


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[MustangMike]

Pull the start cord slowly and see if the saw seems to have good compression (and then inspect the piston if you can, as zogger advises). If compression is OK, it is worth the time.

 

[CTYank]

Taking it off the saw and soaking it without opening it up?

This is one of the main reasons I want to try one of those non running saws. $20 for a saw that we can learn on- seems like a great deal. The sticking point is that we have to be reasonably sure the saw is saveable, and that brings up our inexperience...and round and round we go.

Is it similar to rebuilding another 2 cycle carb like a trimmer carb? We have one of those here that isn't starting.

I'm just thinking "out loud" here, so forgive me if this is really stupid, but....say a saw was run on pure gas and seized. I get for free or nearly free and take it apart. Sure enough the pistons or whatever saws have grooved the walls. If it can be made to start...why not run it until it dies? Will that even work or does grooving mean you can't get a good explosion since the gas air mix is off? I know that has to be the stupidest question, but it seems like it might work. I'm thinking this has got to be like me teaching the kids how to make bread, "You can get the flour, the sugar, the water not exactly right and still get good bread; but if you mess up on the salt or the yeast you might get a brick." Trying to determine what's going to likely leave me with a brick vs something usable.

Edited to add: you can mess up the amount of water but not the temp

The key is "diaphragm carb" rather than "2-cycle carb". Turns out, diaphragms on an Echo trimmer/brushcutter from the late '70s went south about 5 yrs back. Gentle cleaning and carb kit, and it still works like new. Just gotta be sure that you pick through the kit for an exact match for gaskets, metering diaphragm and pump diaphragm. Replacing inlet needle can be tricky because of tiny parts and a spring in the midst. If you go there, carb mfg's website should provide the info you need for setting the lever height. Very important to get that right.

Some carbs have different Low-speed and High-speed adjuster needles. Should not be confused.

Straight-gassed engine won't teach you much. To see if an engine is potentially operable, you'll need a good compression tester, and a properly administered test. All else is arm-waving. Sorry. Typically, if you don't see compression reading above 125-130 psi, it'll leave a bad taste. Were you closer, it'd take 10 minutes.

Overall, it's like medical triage, determining where to allocate resources. And where to pass.

 

[cheeves]

Another member (Wood Doctor) has great results soaking the carb for 24 hours in gas/2cycle mix. Seems to clean things out.

I like using alkahol, but have used most everything!!

 

[marcy-m]

Thanks to everyone for all the great advice. It's been raining here (we need it), so we've been shopping for school supplies. When the weather clears up, we'll be taking apart the trimmer's carb. Planning to get a compression tester first.


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[Deleted member 83629]

marcy its like cooking you might destroy the kitchen the first few time but you will master it in time it just take steady hands and a magnifying glass to work on chainsaw carburetors.

 

[CTYank]

Thanks to everyone for all the great advice. It's been raining here (we need it), so we've been shopping for school supplies. When the weather clears up, we'll be taking apart the trimmer's carb. Planning to get a compression tester first.

One simple way to get a good compression tester, with repair parts kit included- get an OTC (Owatonna Tool Co) 5606 kit. Can be had for ~$50 from Amazon. Unfortunately most of the cheapies are inaccurate, throwaways. That kit has adapters for various plug bores- 10/12/18 mm. $91+ from Walmart! This kit is general-purpose, and yes, some saws have tiny 10 mm plugs. I've three of them.

Sears used to have good ones, labelled for Penske. No mo. Snap-On's are good, but pricey. Lots of luck. Carbs are fun.

 

[marcy-m]

One simple way to get a good compression tester, with repair parts kit included- get an OTC (Owatonna Tool Co) 5606 kit. Can be had for ~$50 from Amazon. Unfortunately most of the cheapies are inaccurate, throwaways. That kit has adapters for various plug bores- 10/12/18 mm. $91+ from Walmart! This kit is general-purpose, and yes, some saws have tiny 10 mm plugs. I've three of them. Lots of luck. Carbs are fun.

Ha ha You don't want to know that I was planning to go to Northern for it oops I'll take a look at amazon. Thanks!

I'm really looking forward to learning about carbeurators because I've heard that word thrown around for so long. It's like the kiss of death on something, "the carb is messed up on that one (trimmer etc)" so it never gets used, sits there until it's finally thrown away. I'm also really excited to be able to help my son get a start on learning the basics of how these little wonders work. I appreciate all the help!


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[marcy-m]

I have learned more about trees in the last 3 months than maybe the whole of my life so far. And I used to roam our acreage in East Texas with a great field guide with the kids id'ing all types of plants and trees. (Then we'd sit and draw what we saw.)

I was wondering about Hickory. Does it have a another name? How about birch?

i just learned that cottonwood is poplar and bois d'arc / horse apple tree is hedge / Osage!




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[marcy-m]

marcy its like cooking you might destroy the kitchen the first few time but you will master it in time it just take steady hands and a magnifying glass to work on chainsaw carburetors.

Jake, that helps a lot because I made a bunch of bricks when I was learning to bake bread ha ha


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[Deleted member 83629]

lol glad i helped.

 

[zogger]

some voodoo to small engine carbs but not much. Most of the time a good cleaning works. sometimes carbs get so shot you just slap need a new one. got a deal on my rototiller that way, tried cleaning it, etc, no go, just too corroded, new carb and for 100 total, tiller plus new carb, got a great rear tine self propelled runner.

Just take em off, pay attention, take apart, clean, reassemble, reinstall, try them. Once you do some it usually isn't that hard, although for dang sure some are lots more trouble to get off the engine than others.

Your local small engine shop might give ya a few for two bucks just to play with. Most will have a junk carb box.

There are TONS of small engine tools out there that the owners don't want to pay shop rates to fix, so they buy new stuff, but..that is about what is wrong with them a lot, dirty carbs and bad fuel lines.

I keep myself in mowers and chainsaws and various whatnots now getting mostly junkers. Still have a decent stack to go through, although I am short on mowers now, used them up, ha! Next winter I will look for some more cheap or free ones.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

i usually get stuff like that for free zogger. i scored a poulan 306A that way had a busted diaphragm.