Khntr85
Addicted to ArboristSite
Seems to help learn when you ain't in a hurry....
Not a good time to learn In the field, when it's about dark, and your tired, hungry and ready to get home, LOL
Sharpening
- Thread starter Sandhill Crane
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Not a good time to learn In the field, when it's about dark, and your tired, hungry and ready to get home, LOL
This saying comes to mind, "You have an eye like a dead fish..."
The Timberline was on my doorstep today.
Many thanks to sawhoss in Wisconsin.
Tried it tonight. Run the chain around three times taking just a touch off each round.
The cutters are sharpened from one side, the right side, looking down the bar, power head away from you, so opposite from how you would hold a saw to use it.
I had trouble a few times getting the carbide to start on some of the right hand cutters because the carbide enters from the outside of the cutter to the inside (which is backwards from hand filing.) Also a factor, this chain has been hand filed and some cutters were longer than others.
After the three loops around the chain I gave it a good look.
Thing is my chain is 50% or less, and as noted in previous posts the hook could have been more pronounced by lowering the file 1/32" to a 1/16".
The Timberline indexed off that bottom plateau of the tooth. The jig corrected tooth length and top angle, but not the hook on this used chain.
I may put a new chain on tomorrow and try that with better luck, because the carbide cutter will index 'more gooder' (lower).
(more gooder, more better. Terms my son used when he was younger, much younger than the 29 years he is now.)
My first impression is that the Timberline will be great for fine touch ups, but a really dull full chisel would be better done with several strokes of a file rather than five loops of the Timberline taking small amounts each time. Comparing the Stihl 2-1 (I've been incorrectly calling it the Stihl 3-1) and the Timberline. Top angle and side pressure for tooth length is more consistent with the Timberline. Depth on the Stihl is fixed and indexed from top of tooth down. Timberline is fixed and indexed from bottom of tooth up. For aggressive touch ups the Stihl would seem a better choice. I could mark the thumb screw, indexing it for tooth length, and rotate it a couple quarter turns for multiple passes on each tooth and then repeat.
What I did find the first go was that my top angle was very, very close, sometimes a touch under 30*, which is fine for hardwood. Tooth length did vary, one side being consistently a stroke or two shorter. Maybe I can adjust depth on this used chain with a file and then fine tune with the Timberline. This is a good chain to practice on and I have learned a bit already. The test will be cutting some wood today, although it is very still out, and humidity in the 90% + range.
Many thanks to sawhoss in Wisconsin.
Tried it tonight. Run the chain around three times taking just a touch off each round.
The cutters are sharpened from one side, the right side, looking down the bar, power head away from you, so opposite from how you would hold a saw to use it.
I had trouble a few times getting the carbide to start on some of the right hand cutters because the carbide enters from the outside of the cutter to the inside (which is backwards from hand filing.) Also a factor, this chain has been hand filed and some cutters were longer than others.
After the three loops around the chain I gave it a good look.
Thing is my chain is 50% or less, and as noted in previous posts the hook could have been more pronounced by lowering the file 1/32" to a 1/16".
The Timberline indexed off that bottom plateau of the tooth. The jig corrected tooth length and top angle, but not the hook on this used chain.
I may put a new chain on tomorrow and try that with better luck, because the carbide cutter will index 'more gooder' (lower).
(more gooder, more better. Terms my son used when he was younger, much younger than the 29 years he is now.)
My first impression is that the Timberline will be great for fine touch ups, but a really dull full chisel would be better done with several strokes of a file rather than five loops of the Timberline taking small amounts each time. Comparing the Stihl 2-1 (I've been incorrectly calling it the Stihl 3-1) and the Timberline. Top angle and side pressure for tooth length is more consistent with the Timberline. Depth on the Stihl is fixed and indexed from top of tooth down. Timberline is fixed and indexed from bottom of tooth up. For aggressive touch ups the Stihl would seem a better choice. I could mark the thumb screw, indexing it for tooth length, and rotate it a couple quarter turns for multiple passes on each tooth and then repeat.
What I did find the first go was that my top angle was very, very close, sometimes a touch under 30*, which is fine for hardwood. Tooth length did vary, one side being consistently a stroke or two shorter. Maybe I can adjust depth on this used chain with a file and then fine tune with the Timberline. This is a good chain to practice on and I have learned a bit already. The test will be cutting some wood today, although it is very still out, and humidity in the 90% + range.
Last Friday was cutting some Oak limbs on my saw horse. The limbs are just some thing that I have to deal with to finish clearing the the small ranch I am working at. The small limbs are very dirty and hard on chains. My chain was sharp right after lunch so by 1 or 2 was needing some pressure to get through the limbs. The file that I was using was from a cheap set of files that I bought from a hardware store. I wanted to have an assortment of files for my little 50cc saws. After maybe 10 uses of the file it was needing quite a bit of pressure to get the hook just right. So I grabbed a new Oregon and breezed through the chain. My vise was screwed in to a stump that selected for sharpening. What became obvious was there were a few points that were a habit of mine. The chain was about 60 or 70% worn, but still cut great. First was was position to the chain was always consistent. This made the angles come out very uniform. The other thing that struck me was I was not looking at he chain, but looking around at the landscape and wild life. The hook came out great when it felt right. I knew what the hook should feel like. Then I noticed that using the worn file caused the cutters to have a slight arc, but the new file was almost perfectly straight and finally with a worn chain the hook should just barely go down into the connecting link. Thanks
I,m done with this find way sharpen chain an do it .
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dang glad I don't fall timber with you if a chain isn't pulling I wouldn't run it at all myself I burn through 3 or 4 chains a day falling and bucking fir for a living. And to be honest you guys can keep your files I can grind them faster straighter and sharper then a file can any day of the week an hour or so a day grinding 32" 105 driver up to 60" 185 driver chains and you'll never file again.
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I can say that If I depended on bulk loops of saw chain to do my job hand filing I would be the last thing I'd want to waste my time on.
As a firewood getter, I can afford to pick and choose my variables. If it's too hot, too cold, too tired, too whatever I can do something else. I've known a person or two over the years that just buy a new chain when their old got dull. People that suit up and dog in on those massive crape myrtles with their electric saw every other year. As a firewood getter in a State with mild winters hand filing suits me well. I can clamp up the saw in the bench vice, sip a beverage, and take my time.
As a firewood getter, I can afford to pick and choose my variables. If it's too hot, too cold, too tired, too whatever I can do something else. I've known a person or two over the years that just buy a new chain when their old got dull. People that suit up and dog in on those massive crape myrtles with their electric saw every other year. As a firewood getter in a State with mild winters hand filing suits me well. I can clamp up the saw in the bench vice, sip a beverage, and take my time.
NSMaple1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Forgot about this thread after my vino related filing thing.
I spent longer than I've ever spent before filing a chain that evening. I grabbed a nearby small adjustable wrench & did some quick guaging, and found my right side teeth seemed to be longer/higher than the left side. Took a long time to get those consistent. But I also found I think that the left side had more hook (were deeper) - so took some time to try to even that out too. A few of the rakers on the right side seemed a bit higher too - but overall they seemed pretty good.
Anyway - next trip out it buzzed right through the big stuff that was binding me up the last time out. Seemed to cut just as good as when it was new, even though at this point there is not a whole lot of life left in it. So I was happy - and from all that it seemed the bigger hook on the left teeth had more influence than the longer/higher teeth on the right, making it banana to the left. Not exactly what I was expecting, but that's what it seemed like from what I think I found & what I did & the outcome.
Then on the last couple of cuts I grounded the thing again - so we'll see next time out what that messed up. I switched to splitting mode after that day so don't know yet on that.
I spent longer than I've ever spent before filing a chain that evening. I grabbed a nearby small adjustable wrench & did some quick guaging, and found my right side teeth seemed to be longer/higher than the left side. Took a long time to get those consistent. But I also found I think that the left side had more hook (were deeper) - so took some time to try to even that out too. A few of the rakers on the right side seemed a bit higher too - but overall they seemed pretty good.
Anyway - next trip out it buzzed right through the big stuff that was binding me up the last time out. Seemed to cut just as good as when it was new, even though at this point there is not a whole lot of life left in it. So I was happy - and from all that it seemed the bigger hook on the left teeth had more influence than the longer/higher teeth on the right, making it banana to the left. Not exactly what I was expecting, but that's what it seemed like from what I think I found & what I did & the outcome.
Then on the last couple of cuts I grounded the thing again - so we'll see next time out what that messed up. I switched to splitting mode after that day so don't know yet on that.
Skeans: What machine do you grind with?
It has been a number of years since cutting in Oregon, but very familiar with Oregon, Wash, Idaho. The trees in those states are SOFT. If you are happy with your grinder then that is what you should do. For me I would need at least 40 to 50 and maybe that would not be enough spare chains or carry a large supply of generating equipment to grind chains. I would say that most folks here love their grinders. There is not a possibility that you could take your chain off and change it and sharpen it cheaper, faster or sharper than I can just pull out a file and sharpen it right on the saw and go back to work. It seems like most believe using a file is VOODO art, well it is not. I would say you keep your grinder and go about and enjoy being in the forest doing what you like doing, but I will hang on to my ammo box with files. Thanks
Maybe just exchange it for one sharpened back at the shop? (8.93 seconds!)
Philbert
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
Silvey pro sharp, Silvey P&D for the 3/4 harvester chain, Silvey 510, then an Oregon setup for doing rakers.
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Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
You can say what you want but if you want to come file my 60" chains have at it just make sure you keep the corners in check and both sides even it's hard enough to cut with that length all day let alone when you're fighting equipment.
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I see I wasn't clear. I either quit for the day or change out a chain when it needs down pressure to cut.
walkerkorby
New Member
One of the issues with that three in one file, is that you don't get the necessary 10% down angle on the top plate. Ideally you'd be filing slightly upwards towards the tip, not level, this angle basically helps eject the chips. The problem with the three in one is that if you give it that slight angle then your depth gauges end up slightly pointy which isn't ideal, and it also lifts the file just slightly higher out of the gullet than where you want it.
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NSMaple1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Necessary 10° down angle?
I always try to file flat. Also the recommended way per Stihl manuals. That I have.
I always try to file flat. Also the recommended way per Stihl manuals. That I have.
As I understand it, the STIHL 2-in-1 file / sharpener (and the Pferd model) is only supposed to be used with a 0° down angle. The same is true for all of the basic STIHL and Oregon file holders, like these:.
If you want / need that 10° down angle, you need to go a different way. I think that the Husqvarna roller guides have this angle 'built in'.
Philbert
Maybe just exchange it for one sharpened back at the shop? (8.93 seconds!)
Well Hi Philbert You can not take your chain off take the loose chain off set it up on your wonderful grinder sharpen your chain put the chain back on the saw and adjust the tension how quickly? Make a video of that process. The point is you do not want to learn the VOODOO art of sharpening your chain on the saw. You are in great company as there are many people who totally agree with you. That process is not for me and others. That is why companies sell grinders. HF grinders are only $24.99 for a limited time what is not to like. Have a very good day I will. Thanks
Well Hi Philbert You can not take your chain off take the loose chain off set it up on your wonderful grinder sharpen your chain put the chain back on the saw and adjust the tension how quickly? Make a video of that process. The point is you do not want to learn the VOODOO art of sharpening your chain on the saw. You are in great company as there are many people who totally agree with you. That process is not for me and others. That is why companies sell grinders. HF grinders are only $24.99 for a limited time what is not to like. Have a very good day I will. Thanks
I'm old school. 35 cross angle, 10 up angle (or down, depending on how you look at it
) but I really set my cross angle a bit less that 35 as on a new chain teh file in the jig won't drop down through the gap between tooth and raker)Yep, when I'm in the field I want the saws to be running and cutting. No down time except for breaks and at those times I want to be communing with nature and sipping coffee, not squinting at files.
