Small chainsaw

[fields_mj]

Hmm, I use the Timberline chain sharpener tool. Not sure how much you can change how high or low the file sits, but there may be a little wiggle room. I'll have to experiment. One thing I did notice is that doing the teeth on one side versus the other, the file moves so it's either pushing the chain into the bar, in which case it doesn't really move, or pushing it away from the bar, in which case it can flop to the side a bit. It seems to me this could create different angles since the chain doesn't really rotate much when being pushed into the bar, but on the other side it can get pushed out away from the bar more.

GO

I have a timberline, and while I like it, it's not the easiest sharpener to set up. Getting the height set up correctly (and getting it to STAY set up that way) can be a challenge, and on a .325 chain you have to set it up differently for each side. If the carbide cutter is deeper on one side than the other, you will cut crooked all day long. First the saw will pull to one side because the cutter has a more acute cutting angle. That side will then dull faster and your saw will start pulling in the other direction. Personally, I think this sharpener is best reserved for someone who knows quite a bit about sharpening chains and can quickly tell whether or not they have it set up correctly. Something like a Stihl/Pfred 2 in 1 file might be a good option for someone who doesn't sharpen chains all that often.

FWIW, 3 cords per year isn't a lot of cutting, but it's also not a little. If you just mess around with it and burn a tank of fuel now and then, a homeowner saw is fine. If you tend to run the saw for several hours at a time, then I'd recommend going with a pro model 50cc saw. By pro model, what you're really looking for is a power head that weighs less than 11 lbs AND generates more than 3.5 hp (preferably 4 if you're buying new). I'd SERIOUSLY consider Mad Professors offer on the 026. It's an older saw, but they are still very serviceable. Not only that, but if he's gone through it, you're reasonably assured that its of good quality. It really boils down to how much you want to spend. A new bar and chain will have your old homelite cutting straight again and for not a lot of money. I'm not sure exactly which model you have or how much it weighs, but there's a good chance that a new pro-model 50cc saw will be within a pound of the same weight and will have a LOT more power. As others have mentioned, even though box stores sell saws based on bar length, the length of the bar has nothing to do with the saw itself. I can put an 18" bar on my 90cc saw if I want to. Buy the saw based on the saws output (hp), weight, and cost, and then choose a bar length that matches the size of wood you cut or the way you want to cut (ie longer bar for not bending over as far).

As far as dealer support, if you're going to run the saw for 20 years, you'll need parts at some point. These days, that's about all that a dealer is good for. If you're REALLY lucky, you might have a dealer where some old guy actually knows how to work on saws, but most likely you end up with a young to middle age guy who THINKS he knows how to work on saws. The young to middle age guys who actually know how to work on saws are porting and building race saws for fun, or doing something similar on bikes. So if your mechanic is under 50, and he's (or she's) not doing stuff like that for fun, you're better off doing the work yourself. Your most likely issues will be carburetors (adjustments and replacement), spark plugs, fuel filters, and MAYBE an oil pump and/or clutch. All of these are things that a capable person can adjust/fix/or replace in about 10 min with not much more than the hand tools that normally come with a saw. If the problem goes deeper than that, you need to be talking to someone who's serious about 2 cycle engines. Dealers are serious about selling chainsaws, not working on them.

Someone can flame me if I'm wrong on this, but my general impression on saws is that Echo makes a great saw. Its normally a little heavy for its power, but they are durable and generally last a long time. With that said, when they get old and die, they are done. I don't see or read about people putting a new top end on them, or replacing the intake boot or seals after 30 years. Stihls, and some Husqvarna, on the other hand, rarely actually die. They just get rebuilt and put back to work. You'll spend more for them up front but they can literally last a life time so long as you don't run it over with a truck, drop a tree on it, or run it so bad that you damage the actual case. This is why they hold their value better on the used market. That 026 that's being offered will keep up with many of the new 50cc saws on the market today, and might just outlast them to boot.

 

[Mad Professor]

That's a great question. That is exactly what I'm using, and just to be sure they sent me the right bit i found a 5/32 file and compared it, and it's identical to the bit I'm using in the sharpener. BUT, and this is a big but, it DOES NOT fit the chain. I put the new chain on, and i don't know what size they mill it to in the factory, but it is NOT 5/32 round.

Here is a photo of the brand new chain on the new bar, with the 5/32 bit fit exactly to the angle of the chain (I promise this is the correct angle, i checked it three times):
View attachment 1226498

You can see very clearly that this is not going to work. If i were to sharpen this chain with the 5/32 bit i would create the shallow gullet we saw on my old chain. So i guess my only option is to throw this chain away when it gets dull?

That chain does not seem to have proper top plate angle, looks more like a milling chain. Got a picture looking down at a cutter?

Top plate should be ~ 30 degrees.

Oregon website has went woke. They used to have a nice downloadable 100 page Maintenance and Safety Manual, the new version is not as nice. Had numbers and file sizes for all their chains, instructions on sharpening. Some numbers have changed but all their 3/8 lo pro chain used a 5/32" file and 30 degree angle.

New version is too big to attach. Old version See below.

P.S. I'm usually in North Berkshire county, or southern Bennington county. I could show you how to file a chain and dress a bar

 

[fields_mj]

That's a great question. That is exactly what I'm using, and just to be sure they sent me the right bit i found a 5/32 file and compared it, and it's identical to the bit I'm using in the sharpener. BUT, and this is a big but, it DOES NOT fit the chain. I put the new chain on, and i don't know what size they mill it to in the factory, but it is NOT 5/32 round.

Here is a photo of the brand new chain on the new bar, with the 5/32 bit fit exactly to the angle of the chain (I promise this is the correct angle, i checked it three times):

You can see very clearly that this is not going to work. If i were to sharpen this chain with the 5/32 bit i would create the shallow gullet we saw on my old chain. So i guess my only option is to throw this chain away when it gets dull?

With a Timberline sharpener, the first time you sharpen a new chain, you have to sharpen it 2 or 3 times in order to get the gullet, side plate, and cutter to match the carbide burr. Its a pain in the rear, and if you're not doing it right you're just ruining the chain. When the chain gets dull, you are better off throwing the SHARPENER away and getting something that's easier to use. Like I said, I have a Timberline and I like it. I use it on my 404 chain quite a bit. I also have a Dremel tool with sharpening stones, hand files, and various file guides from Oregon, Stihl, and Husqvarna. The Timberline is a PITA to use on low pro and .325 chain, and its even worse if you're not very good at sharpening chains. It can remove a lot of steel from the wrong place in a very short period of time. For small chains like low pro and .325, a round file is MUCH better IMHO. I can file free hand, but I normally use the cheap guides you can get from Oregon and Stihl that look like this...

https://www.amazon.com/Oregon-10400...ocphy=9016094&hvtargid=pla-361530281261&psc=1

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

FWIW, 3 cords per year isn't a lot of cutting, but it's also not a little.....

You make a lot of very good points, but I respectfully disagree with some of them.
Sharpening: I used to have a lot of trouble with this, and finally heeded the advice of some of the guys here and on other websites - learn to hand file a chain. Watched a couple of youtube videos and had at my saw. I think I can do a halfway decent job freehand now (well, using a vise to hold the bar). I'd bet anyone can learn this with less than one hour's practice. Once learned, you are set. I do, however, own an Oregon grinder as a backup, but the more I file the more I'm learning that the grinder is needed less and less often. Jigs? The more I file the less I need them.

Pro saw vs homeowner saw: You nailed it. I'm probably older than many of the guys here, and light weight becomes more important as we age. The more hours you spend using your saw, the more you will appreciate a lighter power head. I've always been a proponent of buying the best tool you can afford. The good ones last longer, do the job better, and pay for themselves in less down time. This goes for screw drivers all the way up to complex machinery.

New vs Old: I have a Stihl 042AV that was given to me about 25 years ago. Back then, parts were hard to find and my Stihl stealer took it apart and told me since it was obsolete they could not fix it - they returned it in pieces. That experience has soured me on older machines. How much longer will parts for an 026 be available? How many homeowners like @Berkshires will be able to scour the aftermarket suppliers to find parts for their saw once Stihl turns off the spigot for 026 parts? I don't know enough about older chainsaws and parts to say your recommendation is a bad idea, but my experience pushes me toward new. Especially if you want to keep a saw for 20 years.

Question for you - the new Stihl and some Husky saws now have electronic engine management - fuel injection. Are these as easy to maintain as the carbureted model they replaced?

Dealer support: You got that right. That was no typo in the above paragraph. Many of the motorcycle forums call them stealers because they take your bike in for service, charge a lot, and provide poor service. The things you listed are what I call preventative maintenance items. Everybody should know how to do those things because dealers are charging a lot for basic work that an owner should be able to do himself.

On the other hand....In my lifetime I've seen corded power tools go mostly away. I have brand new Milwaukee Magnum drills that I cannot give away. Everyone is using battery powered tools. My auto mechanic uses his Milwaukee batt powered impact wrench 90% of the time. Who knows what developments in the next 30 years will do for chain saws. I've used a friend's Greenworks saw. He has probably a dozen batteries for all of his battery powered equipment. With that kind of investment, using his chainsaw rivals my Stihls. Yes, I'm faster, but his is quieter. No muss or fuss swapping a battery. Since he is not as compulsive about sharpening his chains as I am, I prefer my saws, but honestly, batteries have some advantages. Not for a pro today, but then carpenters are using airless power nailers. Progress rolls on like a steam(less) roller.

 

[moxiemaul]

If you cut a couple cord a year with that 33cc Homelite then you have been working yourself and the saw way too hard. Stepping up to a 50cc saw will make a world of difference. See if you can find an Echo CS-4910. Or go for broke and get the 590 "Timberwolf". There's even a wolf on the bar. You can't beat that. Every other suggestion in this thread is now nullified. Wolf on the bar. Case closed.

As for your Homelite, lot's of good advice here for sharpening going forward. For now though just chuck that bar and chain and start over. You can get those Oregon combos at the hardware stores for cheap. Sounds like it has served you well. Treat it to all new filters and a plug and keep it as a spare.

+1 for the Echo timberwolf- just got one myself. My previous "big" saw is my dad's old Homelite SuperXL auto- 50cc class- its a great saw, but heavy. Limbing with that beast is a workout after a while. The new Echo is lots stronger than the Homelite- being a more modern 60-ish cc engine. So the Homelite is relegated to having a 30" bar for bigger jobs.. the plan with that long bar was to make bucking easier- less leaning and so on. I have a 24" Tsumura lightweight bar for the 590, I'm inclined to bet I'll be seduced into using it for everything...

So I'm a fan of having small and large saws. Small saws for small jobs, big ones for the big jobs. Even if hauling home a few cords a year I bet there is other work to be done in the woods that benefits from not beating a small saw to death or flinging around a heavy old monster.

 

[fields_mj]

You make a lot of very good points, but I respectfully disagree with some of them.
Sharpening: I used to have a lot of trouble with this, and finally heeded the advice of some of the guys here and on other websites - learn to hand file a chain. Watched a couple of youtube videos and had at my saw. I think I can do a halfway decent job freehand now (well, using a vise to hold the bar). I'd bet anyone can learn this with less than one hour's practice. Once learned, you are set. I do, however, own an Oregon grinder as a backup, but the more I file the more I'm learning that the grinder is needed less and less often. Jigs? The more I file the less I need them.

Totally agree. I can free hand file a chain and get really good results if I take my time. If I get in a hurry (which I often do), I end up pushing the file too far down into the gullet over time. The guide that I use helps me avoid that mistake. Depending on how often a person is sharpening their chain, and what brand of chain they are using, it's also good to have something that provides a reference for 25 or 30 degrees. If you run a saw at least weekly, and sharpen multiple times a day when doing so, it doesn't take long before muscle memory takes over and you no longer need the reference. However, if a chain lasts you a year or more, you may always find the reference marks useful.

As far as your 042AV, I suspect you were dealing with a really lousy dealer. I ran into a similar issue with an 038 magnum when I first started getting into saws, but at least they didn't return it to me in pieces. I even had one dealer tell me that my 036 was trashed and it just needed a sparkplug. I've dealt with 5 different Stihl dealers, and have half a dozen more within a 30 min drive of my house and I've NEVER had one of them recommend that a saw be repaired. I'm 100% confident that if its anything other than a broken clutch spring, a gummed up carb, or a bad spark plug, its beyond their ability to diagnose and repair.
With that said, replacement parts for old saws can become an issue. That's another area where pro saws can be a benefit. They, or at least Stihl tends to support them a little longer. The 026 was introduced in '88, and the MS260 wasn't discontinued until 2010 so it wouldn't surprise me if you could still get most of the OEM parts for it 20 years from now. I'm actually more concerned about replacement parts for the newer Mtronic saws. My experience with electronics is that heat and humidity are really hard on them, and there are often small changes to them from one model year to another that makes parts incompatible between the model years. I'm not sure if these will be issues with newer saws or not, but I'll be sticking with carburetors for at least another 10 to 15 years. By then there should be enough of a track record to make an informed decision...

Battery powered saws are a great option for home owners. They will keep up or even out pace anything 40cc or smaller, and will keep up with most home-owner grade 50cc saws. Their only limitation is runtime on a given battery (and the batteries cost as much as some of my saws). For infrequent use, they are ideal. No carb to mess with, no risk of straight gassing it. Put a charged battery in it an pull the trigger. I've had some people say that they are against them because you can't charge the batteries if the power is out after a big storm. My response is that if your power is out after a big storm, you probably have more important things to deal with than operating a chainsaw.

 

[J D]

I even had one dealer tell me that my 036 was trashed and it just needed a sparkplug.

Dealers like that are great to be onside with... bring in a box of bickies or a pack of beer every now & then & take some of their "junk" away with you

 

[dankas]

Dealers are serious about selling chainsaws, not working on them.

Well said @fields_mj,
I've had dealer repairs 3 times that were stupid bad Stihl & sadly an Echo dealer ( don't expect any timely chainsaw service during grass growing season from a landscape shop, dah )...lessons learned...learn & get your tools - just rebuilt my 2nd carb saws running fine...

Best! and happy holidays to all in the forests!!

 

[Franny K]

I've been running a Homelite (Home Depot brand) 16" 33cc chainsaw for 20 years or so. It still runs great, but it I'm thinking of upgrading.

I use it for bucking, taking down a few trees, and general yardwork. Mostly for bucking up trees for firewood to run my maple syrup evaporator, plus a little extra for the woodburning stove. Maybe I buck 3 full cords a year.

But I think I've gotten my money's worth out of this old Homelite, and would be willing to spend up to maybe 5 or $600 for something that could make my life easier when it's time to buck up the wood. I was thinking something with an 18" bar. And I'd hope to get another 20 years out of my next saw.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Gabe

There is battery stuff that is an upgrade from where you are. Just the 20 year business in your desires. If you do go gasoline mix consider if or what sort of cushioning in the starter.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

Totally agree. I can free hand file a chain and get really good results if I take my time. If I get in a hurry (which I often do), I end up pushing the file too far down into the gullet over time.

The youtube video I watched stressed that one has to file the underside of the top cutting edge if you want to sharpen it. Filing jigs do that for you by holding the file so approx. 20 - 30% of it is above the top flat part of the tooth. The video guy said to apply pressure back (toward the power unit) and up rather than down (which will deepen the gullet and fail to sharpen the top cutting edge). I'm paraphrasing what was said, and I might have some of his points wrong, however, my chains cut well enough for me. As far as the angle, the chains I have (mostly Oregon, some Stihl) all have an engraved mark on top for the angle. Like most other things, keep your eye on the angle and your muscles will follow.

As far for my dealer, while they have one huge wall with Stihl and Echo saws, blowers, whackers, etc. they are primarily a Lawn maintenance shop. Right now they have 4 of those huge Billy Goat (? brand) self propelled leaf blowers and two smaller ones on the floor, and usually half a dozen of the $17,000 Exmark commercial ZT mowers and who knows how many smaller ones, bottoming out at $3 or $4,000 ZT Toros. From my perspective, expecting them to service their Stihl and Echo motors is a fools errand, and that has been borne out by my experience.

 

[diver64]

Dealers like that are great to be onside with... bring in a box of bickies or a pack of beer every now & then & take some of their "junk" away with you

I just had a shop tell me my car needed a transmission when the problem was they put the TPS sensor in wrong. Happens in every industry I guess

 

[Berkshires]

Thank you very much, both the folks who contributed to this thread, and those who PM'ed me directly. I learned a ton in a very short time! Here's what I'm doing:

1. I took off my old bar and chain and replaced it with a new set of the same kind (it was only $35 at HD for both together). I'll keep the old bar and chain around. The old chain is kind of a mess, but I might use it if I need to work on a stump or roots near the ground. The bar is pretty blown out, but when I get to a dealer, I'll probably pick up a bar tightener, and practice on that old bar. If I can get it where I like it, it may even go back into rotation.
2. I ordered what looks like a much better chain. The chain that came with my chainsaw (the same kind I just replaced it with) is a "low kickback" chain. Looks like it has extra depth guage/rakers, which keep it from biting into the wood as much. What I ordered was the same size to fit the bar and saw, but much more aggressive: OREGON 91VXL Saw Chain (.050 Gauge - 3/8 LP Pitch - Semi Chisel / Standard Sequence).
3. I'll also be more careful sharpening, and/or take it to get it done somewhere.

So I plan to see what I think of the new more aggressive chain on my old Homelite 33cc. That said, I am also seriously considering getting the Echo CS-4910. Of all the saws mentioned here, there seems to be some consensus that it's the best fit for me. I like that it's much more powerful, and actually a good bit lighter than my existing saw. And reliability is really important to me. I'm pretty handy, but don't have any skills with small engines (beyond cleaning a carburetor when it's full of bad gas). There are two Echo dealerships near me. Neither of them list this saw on their website (seems everyone is trying to push the 4920 - the electronic gas one), but I may call them to see if either can get one. It would not be the worst thing to have the smaller one at home for anything I need around the house, and the larger one to have at my camp/sugar shack (two hours from my home) for processing wood there.

I'd welcome any further input or comments.

Thanks again,

Gabe

 

[Michael E]

Please let us know how the Homelite performs with the new bar and chain.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Thank you very much, both the folks who contributed to this thread, and those who PM'ed me directly. I learned a ton in a very short time! Here's what I'm doing:

1. I took off my old bar and chain and replaced it with a new set of the same kind (it was only $35 at HD for both together). I'll keep the old bar and chain around. The old chain is kind of a mess, but I might use it if I need to work on a stump or roots near the ground. The bar is pretty blown out, but when I get to a dealer, I'll probably pick up a bar tightener, and practice on that old bar. If I can get it where I like it, it may even go back into rotation.
2. I ordered what looks like a much better chain. The chain that came with my chainsaw (the same kind I just replaced it with) is a "low kickback" chain. Looks like it has extra depth guage/rakers, which keep it from biting into the wood as much. What I ordered was the same size to fit the bar and saw, but much more aggressive: OREGON 91VXL Saw Chain (.050 Gauge - 3/8 LP Pitch - Semi Chisel / Standard Sequence).
3. I'll also be more careful sharpening, and/or take it to get it done somewhere.

So I plan to see what I think of the new more aggressive chain on my old Homelite 33cc. That said, I am also seriously considering getting the Echo CS-4910. Of all the saws mentioned here, there seems to be some consensus that it's the best fit for me. I like that it's much more powerful, and actually a good bit lighter than my existing saw. And reliability is really important to me. I'm pretty handy, but don't have any skills with small engines (beyond cleaning a carburetor when it's full of bad gas). There are two Echo dealerships near me. Neither of them list this saw on their website (seems everyone is trying to push the 4920 - the electronic gas one), but I may call them to see if either can get one. It would not be the worst thing to have the smaller one at home for anything I need around the house, and the larger one to have at my camp/sugar shack (two hours from my home) for processing wood there.

I'd welcome any further input or comments.

Thanks again,

Gabe

The 4920 is not a model update. It's a totally different product. The 4910 has a true magnesium case. The 4920 is a clamshell. Even the exterior plastic feels cheaper. The 4910 is the "pro" 501p with a few downgrades like a limited coil and a single ring piston. All the parts are interchangeable between the two. You can still buy them online from Home Depot. Once those are gone it will be eBay only.

 

[Berkshires]

Wait, has the 4910 been discontinued? Echo is not selling it any more?

GO

 

[Scyry]

Wait, has the 4910 been discontinued? Echo is not selling it any more?

GO

Looks like it was replaced by the 4920, even if it has less desirable features:

https://www.echo-usa.com/chainsaws/cs-4920

 

[Mad Professor]

Thank you very much, both the folks who contributed to this thread, and those who PM'ed me directly. I learned a ton in a very short time! Here's what I'm doing:

1. I took off my old bar and chain and replaced it with a new set of the same kind (it was only $35 at HD for both together). I'll keep the old bar and chain around. The old chain is kind of a mess, but I might use it if I need to work on a stump or roots near the ground. The bar is pretty blown out, but when I get to a dealer, I'll probably pick up a bar tightener, and practice on that old bar. If I can get it where I like it, it may even go back into rotation.
2. I ordered what looks like a much better chain. The chain that came with my chainsaw (the same kind I just replaced it with) is a "low kickback" chain. Looks like it has extra depth guage/rakers, which keep it from biting into the wood as much. What I ordered was the same size to fit the bar and saw, but much more aggressive: OREGON 91VXL Saw Chain (.050 Gauge - 3/8 LP Pitch - Semi Chisel / Standard Sequence).
3. I'll also be more careful sharpening, and/or take it to get it done somewhere.

So I plan to see what I think of the new more aggressive chain on my old Homelite 33cc. That said, I am also seriously considering getting the Echo CS-4910. Of all the saws mentioned here, there seems to be some consensus that it's the best fit for me. I like that it's much more powerful, and actually a good bit lighter than my existing saw. And reliability is really important to me. I'm pretty handy, but don't have any skills with small engines (beyond cleaning a carburetor when it's full of bad gas). There are two Echo dealerships near me. Neither of them list this saw on their website (seems everyone is trying to push the 4920 - the electronic gas one), but I may call them to see if either can get one. It would not be the worst thing to have the smaller one at home for anything I need around the house, and the larger one to have at my camp/sugar shack (two hours from my home) for processing wood there.

I'd welcome any further input or comments.

Thanks again,

Gabe

Glad you have B/C that will work. I detest the safety chains with the bumpers..........

How does the spur sprocket on the clutch look? If worn the new chain(s) won't like it.

Not sure where in Bizerkshires you are, but Southern Berkshire Power seems to be a decent Echo/Husky dealer, I've got parts from them.

Merry Christmas

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Wait, has the 4910 been discontinued? Echo is not selling it any more?

GO

Several models were discontinued in the last few years, unfortunately.

 

[Berkshires]

Glad you have B/C that will work. I detest the safety chains with the bumpers..........

How does the spur sprocket on the clutch look? If worn the new chain(s) won't like it.

Not sure where in Bizerkshires you are, but Southern Berkshire Power seems to be a decent Echo/Husky dealer, I've got parts from them.

Merry Christmas

I'll check the sprocket when i get back from my in laws.

I'm based closer to Boston. It's just my family's camp and my sugaring operation that's in the Berkshires.

My local HD had a single Echo cs-4910 left, so i but the bullet and bought it. I'll keep looking around to see if the local dealers can get their hands on one (after they open again after the holidays). If so I'll return the one from HD in the box still.

Can't wait to try both the Homelite with the more aggressive chain, and the new Echo. Happy holidays to me!

And thanks again to everyone for their advice. Hope you all are enjoying your holidays!

Gabe

 

[Paul Bunions]

If you can find a good Echo, Stihl, or Husqvarna dealer, meaning one that does repairs in two weeks or less for HOMEOWNERS, buy a 50-cc saw from him and let it go. If not, the Echo CS-501P is very nice, and it's light for its displacement. The CS-4910 is the same saw with a few downgrades, most of which are not important, but it comes with a "safety" chain that will slow you down.

You can "modify" these saws pretty fast just by pulling a tube out of the muffler.

A Timberwolf will work fine, but they're heavier. They come with weird check valve nozzles in the carbs, so tuning them well is a problem unless you replace the nozzles. An easy job.

Get an Archer/Pferd saw sharpener. This is a plastic thing that holds files. It will file the cutters and rakers at the same time. Sharp chain in 5 minutes.

Make sure you have a full-chisel chain. Far as I know, they do not sell them in most stores, but you can get them online.

Some dealers have one repair schedule for amateurs and a much faster one for pros. I have had places keep a saw for over a month. I had an authorized repair place give a saw back to me after a month, claiming they couldn't fix it.