Smoking Ferguson...

[loganj01]

While my MF 135 doesn't qualify as "large equipment", I'm hoping to gain some insight/ideas from some of you who know more than I do. Mine is a '69 model with the 152 cu 3 cyl Perkins gas burner. It has tons of torque...I have never stalled the engine on this tractor and I'm not easy on it at all. My problem is that it smokes and fouls plugs...intermittently. Sometimes I can bush hog for 3 hours before the smoke begins to roll out of the tailpipe. This is usually followed by a fouled plug or two...believe me, you know it when you drop a cylinder on a 3 cylinder engine! I was so sure it was in the head so I pulled the head, took it to the machine shop, and had guides, seats, and a valve job done. Cylinder walls were slick as glass with no ridge at all. It ran GREAT...for about 4 hours. Then it laid down a smoke screen and fouled #2 and #3. Replace the plugs and it'll run great for a while longer. The only other thing that I can see that might be wrong is that the oil pressure gauge stays pegged out all the time...I haven't tried a different gauge yet so I don't know if it's a bad gauge or a stuck relief valve. I use 15w40 oil in it. Any ideas/suggestions? I really don't want to drop a ton of cash on a complete overhaul unless it really needs it...

 

[thomasjf]

one possibility comes to mind

check/clean your crankcase ventilation system/breather. may be building internal pressure and forcing oil where it doesn't belong.
Is the collant temperature stable. might be occasionally overheating due to a stuck thermostat.

 

[loganj01]

check/clean your crankcase ventilation system/breather. may be building internal pressure and forcing oil where it doesn't belong.
Is the collant temperature stable. might be occasionally overheating due to a stuck thermostat.

Crankcase vent is clean. I installed a new 160* thermostat when I did the head work. It usually runs about 170* unless I'm working it really hard on a hot day...then it'll run 190-200*.

 

[Hedgerow]

Crankcase vent is clean. I installed a new 160* thermostat when I did the head work. It usually runs about 170* unless I'm working it really hard on a hot day...then it'll run 190-200*.

A. Is it using oil? If so, how much?
B. What color is the smoke? Black? or Blue/Gray

 

[VA-Sawyer]

If the smoke is Blue and the plugs are oil fouled, I would pour a can of SEA FOAM in the crankcase. Sounds like you may have stuck oil control rings. Put in the Sea Foam and work it for a day, then drain the oil. Repeat once more. A can of Sea Foam in the fuel will help break loose the upper rings if they are stuck as well. After flushing the oil twice, try a half can in the oil and run it. Keep checking the oil color and drain it again once it gets black. I had a problem with sticking rings on grandpa's old Farmall.
If the smoke is Black and the plugs are dry carbon fouled, I would look for a bad float or leaking float valve. Does it loose fuel from the tank while sitting ? Could the choke be sticking part way on ?

Rick

 

[loganj01]

It's definitely oil smoke...gray/white and smells like burning oil. I'll try the Sea Foam. What I don't understand is why it's intermittent. Seems like it would smoke all the time? I read one time that some of these Perkins engines had problems seating the rings because the rings were too hard or something to that effect. Still...this one is showing 2300 hours and I can't imagine that someone ran it like this for all that time. I checked the compression a while back and, if memory serves, it was about 150 psi. That was before the valve job. Is is possible that it could have a crack in the head somewhere? I know that's a reach but I'm down to looking for needles in the haystack with this thing. I didn't have the head magnafluxed while it was off and I should have.

 

[Hedgerow]

It's definitely oil smoke...gray/white and smells like burning oil. I'll try the Sea Foam. What I don't understand is why it's intermittent. Seems like it would smoke all the time? I read one time that some of these Perkins engines had problems seating the rings because the rings were too hard or something to that effect. Still...this one is showing 2300 hours and I can't imagine that someone ran it like this for all that time. I checked the compression a while back and, if memory serves, it was about 150 psi. That was before the valve job. Is is possible that it could have a crack in the head somewhere? I know that's a reach but I'm down to looking for needles in the haystack with this thing. I didn't have the head magnafluxed while it was off and I should have.

I'm 90% sure you got a ring issue. Any reputable machine shop would have noticed a crack in the area you're thinking when doing the valve job on that head. The sea foam is a good suggestion. Let us know if that helps. If it fouls your plugs when running the seafoam, that can happen. Just replace them and continue. Hope it's just stuck rings...

 

[dozerdan]

The 152 Perkins is one of my favorite engines for a 40 hp tractor. The 152 gas engine is over built. It uses the same block,liners and crankshaft as the diesel.
You said the the liners are smooth as glass. They used two different liners in the 152, some are chrome lined and some are cast iron. If someone used chrome rings with the chrome liners that will foul the plugs. That combination doesnt work and the rings will never seat. You can use cast rings in the chrome bore or chrome rings in the cast bore but never chrome on chrome.
I never install the chrome liners in the Perkins I use all cast.
You can replace the pistons and liners in your 152 with the engine in the tractor. You will have to split the tractor in the front, between the front axle and the oil pan. The front axle assembly bolts to the oil pan, you cant get the oil pan off with the front axle on the tractor. They are not that hard to do.
If you lived a little closer I would help you with it. If you need any information just contact me.
Later
Dan

 

[loganj01]

Dan, that must have been what I'd read about those engines...using chrome liners with chrome rings. I bought the tractor with the Perkins because of how heavy duty it is. The dealer had one just like it sitting there with the Continental engine. I don't know if this engine has ever been built. Did any of them come from the factory with chrome liners/rings? I dosed it with Sea Foam and ran it pretty hard today for about 5 hours pulling a plow...it was dropping 500 rpm with the discs in the ground and staying hard against the governor. I never saw it smoke any at all and the engine stayed smooth and steady the whole time. It was cool out today so the engine temp never got over 170*. Bush hogging on a hot day, it'll hit 210* sometimes. It seems to start smoking/fouling plugs only after it gets hot. I wonder if I need to pull that radiator and have it cleaned out? I also contemplated looking for a fan blade that would move more air through the radiator to keep the engine cooler. I'm going to change the oil before the first bush hogging job of the season. If I end up putting cylinder kits in, I'll definitely want advice from someone who is familiar with these engines and I'll probably contact you with some questions. Thanks.

 

[dozerdan]

Perkins didn't build any engines that had chrome on chrome. The 135s are getting old ( 1975 was the last year built) and you never know what was done to them in the past. They did have a lot of problems with the chrome liners cracking. It is possible that when the engine gets hotter that a crack will expand and use more oil.
Later
Dan

 

[loganj01]

So I ran the Seafoam for about 8 hours with no change. It still smoked and fouled a couple of plugs. Guess I need to put cylinder kits in it? Dumb question...is this a wet or dry sleeve engine?

 

[dozerdan]

They are dry.
If you need instructions, just call me.
Later
Dan

 

[loganj01]

I'll probably take you up on that later when I have the funds to get the parts. For now, it runs strong...I just have to make sure it doesn't run low on oil. I have no-foulers on two plugs and it is running ok like that. The rear main seal is leaking too so I may need to pull it apart and repair that...unless it's a two piece seal and I can replace it without pulling the crank.

 

[dozerdan]

Rear Main Seal

The 135 had a rope rear main seal up to about 1970 after that it had the one piece rear seal. Both seals are in a seal retainer that bolt to the engine block. The one piece seal housing bolts to the rear of the block and the rear main bearing cap. The older rope seal design has a seal housing but it has three bold on the back side of the block and two bolts inside the oil pan. In other words to replace the one piece seal all you need to do is split the tractor, remove the flywheel and change the seal. The rope seal will require removal of the pan and the flywheel.
Later
Dan