Oh.
So bought a chinese saw (holz g070)
- Thread starter sliceoflife
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sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Yes, the Clone is running good (well... comparitively... none of its issues are proving problematic). It's a CS 900 that's got a busted up muffler.
I do have all the pieces of muffler. I think all the repair materials made their way into the vinegar bath/sink when I cleaned it up.
So Welding may be the way to go?
To keep score:
G070:
Clutch issues (May be bearing problems... need a gear puller to see) that result in chain spinning @ 1400 RPM - But not a big problem since saw can idle well under 1000rpm. Also possibly related; clutch stopped engaging mid-slab at one point... Tightening the clutch-restraining nut fixed that.
Flywheel housing is poorly cast... two ribs have broken off during regular use
Sometimes (mostly when hot; but haven't determined absolutely if that's the deciding factor) when pulling to start; the engine will fire aggressively after a single rotation and rip the pullcord from my hand then immediately die. Been thinking this was decomp valve problems... but as I gain some experience with the saw... maybe related to the clutch?
Bar (holzzforma) seems pretty flimsy; had to fix pinches in it three times already.
Echo cs 900:
Brake is missing, Palm trigger missing (Knew about both of these when purchased)
Chain was pretty badly sharpened (in my opinion, also believe I've fixed this now)
Muffler has significant cracks... including both mounting holes being completely broken out in pieces ~the size of a penny. It can be mounted by wedging everything together; but difficult to manage... and in use it tends to shake itself free as the screws can't provide proper tension since their mounts aren't actually attached to the muffler
Runs quite hot (Cleaning and properly sharpening the chain seems to have cooled it off... but still is much hotter than the g070 when I set it down after similar length use.
Still working on getting the L and idle throttle tuned in to get it easy starting... Currently takes 3-5 min of messing with it before it'll sit and idle well. Suspect this is a tuning issue as it was much easier to get idling before I cleaned and remounted the muffler... my guess is that cleaning the muffler changed the air mix or backpressure or something and I need to adjust for that.
I do have all the pieces of muffler. I think all the repair materials made their way into the vinegar bath/sink when I cleaned it up.
So Welding may be the way to go?
To keep score:
G070:
Clutch issues (May be bearing problems... need a gear puller to see) that result in chain spinning @ 1400 RPM - But not a big problem since saw can idle well under 1000rpm. Also possibly related; clutch stopped engaging mid-slab at one point... Tightening the clutch-restraining nut fixed that.
Flywheel housing is poorly cast... two ribs have broken off during regular use
Sometimes (mostly when hot; but haven't determined absolutely if that's the deciding factor) when pulling to start; the engine will fire aggressively after a single rotation and rip the pullcord from my hand then immediately die. Been thinking this was decomp valve problems... but as I gain some experience with the saw... maybe related to the clutch?
Bar (holzzforma) seems pretty flimsy; had to fix pinches in it three times already.
Echo cs 900:
Brake is missing, Palm trigger missing (Knew about both of these when purchased)
Chain was pretty badly sharpened (in my opinion, also believe I've fixed this now)
Muffler has significant cracks... including both mounting holes being completely broken out in pieces ~the size of a penny. It can be mounted by wedging everything together; but difficult to manage... and in use it tends to shake itself free as the screws can't provide proper tension since their mounts aren't actually attached to the muffler
Runs quite hot (Cleaning and properly sharpening the chain seems to have cooled it off... but still is much hotter than the g070 when I set it down after similar length use.
Still working on getting the L and idle throttle tuned in to get it easy starting... Currently takes 3-5 min of messing with it before it'll sit and idle well. Suspect this is a tuning issue as it was much easier to get idling before I cleaned and remounted the muffler... my guess is that cleaning the muffler changed the air mix or backpressure or something and I need to adjust for that.
Put an ad in the trading post for the parts needed. Might find what you need. I'm sure there is some out there.
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks, Will do. I only hesitated because when I googled the part... 50% of the results were WTB threads from the trading post.
I know nothing about Echo saws. That said, with the various forms of custom mufflers out there, it seems like you should be able to get a new muffler for it even if you have to spend a little more and get one made custom for it.
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Hell if I'm doing custom; I'll do one that comes out of the motor, bends & runs to a straight pipe and goes up the mill uprights and exhausts up there.
https://www.etdohs.com/echo-chainsaw-cs900-cylinder-kit-and-muffler
just did a search. 3 seconds later found this. I have no idea about it...
just did a search. 3 seconds later found this. I have no idea about it...
https://www.btflxi.com/Outdoor Powe.../echo-chainsaw-cs900-cylinder-kit-and-muffler
they all appear to be the same ones. Who knows?
they all appear to be the same ones. Who knows?
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China doesn't follow the safety regs. much less obey patent and trademark laws. There stuff is obviously inferior. That is why no one pursues action. If your running one of their clone saws and a cheap rear handle breaks your screwed. They already used the profit for their military. You ain't getting nothing from them except maybe another free pos.
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Saw that kit... googled the site name (think it was tulipm... but as you noticed it's all the same site with different urls)... its reported as a scam site.
There are phone contact numbers on the one in florida. That's the one I checked "contact"...
I believe that site also had a small engine section. Idk. Me, I'd be phoning and checking it out regardless.
I believe that site also had a small engine section. Idk. Me, I'd be phoning and checking it out regardless.
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
If you google the phone number it's also reported as being used in scams. Several pages of results listing it along with others and saying if you bought anything from them to report it as fraud to your bank.
The site also has a 395 listed for $55... and the pictures show a $400 price sticker on the saw.
Everything seems to be just under $70... I'd assume because there's some threshold around there that makes it harder for them to snake the cash away before the bank catches on.
The site also has a 395 listed for $55... and the pictures show a $400 price sticker on the saw.
Everything seems to be just under $70... I'd assume because there's some threshold around there that makes it harder for them to snake the cash away before the bank catches on.
Well damn.
back to the drawing board.
back to the drawing board.
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah, I definitely appreciate the help and that site did get my hopes up... but I've learned any online vendor I don't recognize to dig deeper... because as you saw... three different URLS spoofing as a womans clothing store that also accidentally scraped the same hardware stores listings from who knows where and when. Not at all anomalous, either. Lots of rare/unobtainable things I've looked to purchase online in the past wind up in strangely similar findings... no clue why womens clothing is what they usually try to structure/pass off the stores as; my guess is some algorithm decided it. I couldn't fathom a guess how many of these sites exist... but there's billions or trillions of potential URL's out there and I'd wager these kind of frauds are a substantial portion of the internet.
Hopefully someday soon Google finds a way to catch and remove these scams from their results as they're becoming more and more prevalent.
Hopefully someday soon Google finds a way to catch and remove these scams from their results as they're becoming more and more prevalent.
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
So back to the G070 (Stihl Clone) for a bit... Onto a massive log... uses the full 36" bar (~26-28" diameter) on the mill. It's cutting along nicely. Mill out two ~8 ft slabs and set it down.
Still having to idle @ <1400 to keep chain from spinning.
Still dipping to ~1000 rpm idle after coming out of the cut... and it will die if I don't flutter the throttle for 30-60 seconds before walking away to leave it to idle.
Halfway through the first cut it started wobbling/rocking a bit if I fed it too fast... couldn't figure out why. Halfway through the second cut I found a large nut on the ground and couldn't figure out where it came from... Larger than any of the mill nuts, and they all seemed to still be in place. Right at the end of the second cut dawned on me that it was one of the bar cover nuts... amazingly (and Im guessing VERY fortunately) the other held tight... but the rear one had shaken right out.
I've heard chinese copy stuff (mills and saws) use cheapo nuts and bolts and these should be replaced... so guess that's gonna be required for this one.
The same muffler nut shook out again too. That I can hardly blame the Chinese copy status for... It's just terrible design (Which I assume was original to the Stihl 070) where it's placed. It's basically impossible to tighten that nut properly. I wind up doing the best I can with a wrench, but there's no angle that lets the wrench seat properly.
Anyway, replaced both nuts and tightened the hell out of them as best I could manage.
That said... Comparing the G070 to the CS900... The G070 comes out of MUCH harder work (50% wider slabs) practically cool when compared to the Echo cs900. The Echo runs HOT. Should I maybe richen up the mix in the echo (Turn the H adjust out?) That thing is SIZZLING after even relatively light use (single slabs 14-18" wide)... even after sharpening the blade and cleaning off the saw and muffler.
Any Ideas for why a Saw would run excessively hot despite not showing any signs of any problems otherwise?
Still having to idle @ <1400 to keep chain from spinning.
Still dipping to ~1000 rpm idle after coming out of the cut... and it will die if I don't flutter the throttle for 30-60 seconds before walking away to leave it to idle.
Halfway through the first cut it started wobbling/rocking a bit if I fed it too fast... couldn't figure out why. Halfway through the second cut I found a large nut on the ground and couldn't figure out where it came from... Larger than any of the mill nuts, and they all seemed to still be in place. Right at the end of the second cut dawned on me that it was one of the bar cover nuts... amazingly (and Im guessing VERY fortunately) the other held tight... but the rear one had shaken right out.
I've heard chinese copy stuff (mills and saws) use cheapo nuts and bolts and these should be replaced... so guess that's gonna be required for this one.
The same muffler nut shook out again too. That I can hardly blame the Chinese copy status for... It's just terrible design (Which I assume was original to the Stihl 070) where it's placed. It's basically impossible to tighten that nut properly. I wind up doing the best I can with a wrench, but there's no angle that lets the wrench seat properly.
Anyway, replaced both nuts and tightened the hell out of them as best I could manage.
That said... Comparing the G070 to the CS900... The G070 comes out of MUCH harder work (50% wider slabs) practically cool when compared to the Echo cs900. The Echo runs HOT. Should I maybe richen up the mix in the echo (Turn the H adjust out?) That thing is SIZZLING after even relatively light use (single slabs 14-18" wide)... even after sharpening the blade and cleaning off the saw and muffler.
Any Ideas for why a Saw would run excessively hot despite not showing any signs of any problems otherwise?
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Laundry list of problems with the echo is adding up:
Spark plug internal insulator is snapped at the base and falls down over the center electrode. At least this part is easy to replace though. Shame cause when the saw is running; it's great; but every time I start it up I find a new problem.
It's out of commission until I swing to the auto store and get a replacement plug.
That said: If I resolve the reason it's running so hot (I'm hopeful tuning the H to fatten it up will help), and find a replacement part for the Muffler, and replace the spark plug... I'm hopeful it'll be a great saw for me... but frankly; it's significantly more problems than the cheap Stihl clone... and was at about the same price point... and will be significantly more invested once I replace the muffler, and the bar (which is close to needing replaced) and chain (same).
To each their own which problems they'd rather deal with; and sure if you find an old timer who's selling a mint condition 660 magnum for $50 because he doesn't care... that's the way to go... but holding both sides of the "Getting a decent milling saw for under $750" reality in my area (without silly luck) in my hands... Gotta say, I'm leaning towards Cheapo Clones being the way to go. I will say though; I'd for sure spend the extra on a brand name Bar if I were doing it again. NOT impressed with the Holzfforma bar.
Spark plug internal insulator is snapped at the base and falls down over the center electrode. At least this part is easy to replace though. Shame cause when the saw is running; it's great; but every time I start it up I find a new problem.
It's out of commission until I swing to the auto store and get a replacement plug.
That said: If I resolve the reason it's running so hot (I'm hopeful tuning the H to fatten it up will help), and find a replacement part for the Muffler, and replace the spark plug... I'm hopeful it'll be a great saw for me... but frankly; it's significantly more problems than the cheap Stihl clone... and was at about the same price point... and will be significantly more invested once I replace the muffler, and the bar (which is close to needing replaced) and chain (same).
To each their own which problems they'd rather deal with; and sure if you find an old timer who's selling a mint condition 660 magnum for $50 because he doesn't care... that's the way to go... but holding both sides of the "Getting a decent milling saw for under $750" reality in my area (without silly luck) in my hands... Gotta say, I'm leaning towards Cheapo Clones being the way to go. I will say though; I'd for sure spend the extra on a brand name Bar if I were doing it again. NOT impressed with the Holzfforma bar.
My oldest Stihl clone saw has been Bulletproof period. ( 070 ) When I first got it there were some concerns that had to be addressed. Compression release and carburetor along with a few small issues. It is powerful and heavy. It never heats up though so over all it does what it needs to do. I have several of them and very impressed with how reliable it is. Stihl does not make any thing now that comes close to the performance of the 070. The 660 is also good. I bought several things to improve the saw to make it work for me including a high quality bar sprocket and such. Thanks
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
I'd love to hear about the parts you bought to fix yours up including where you purchased them. Feel free to post here or message me. Or if there's a thread about it already, link me please.
Generally speaking it's the components that require more precision in manufacture/assembly &/or quality material that tend to give problems (carbs, oil pumps, spring steel, gears, etc).
If you replace these parts with OEM parts you may end up with a reasonable saw (for the price).
The nice thing about the 070 is that they were so robust that even one made half as well is going to be a pretty solid saw.
I've thought for a long time we should have a thread dedicated to the common issues & fixes/improvements for the various clones. Unfortunately these discussions always seem to be hijacked by unhelpful advice on why you shouldn't own one in the first place
If you replace these parts with OEM parts you may end up with a reasonable saw (for the price).
The nice thing about the 070 is that they were so robust that even one made half as well is going to be a pretty solid saw.
I've thought for a long time we should have a thread dedicated to the common issues & fixes/improvements for the various clones. Unfortunately these discussions always seem to be hijacked by unhelpful advice on why you shouldn't own one in the first place
