So I gotta ask....

[northmanlogging]

They are currently shovel and cat logging the piece next to the house here, a job I wish I could have got...

There is enough of the low land timber left that cat skidding is still viable, mostly DNR or large private ground. There is an outfit here in town that does small parcels with just a dozer, they swear by it, even though they own a skidder?

The tethering is around, but ya mixed results, at least one outfit I know of is giving it a go, the operators are nervous of course.

Personally I think its just a matter of time before some sort of catastrophic failure happens and someone gets killed that they realize its a bad idea. Is it productive yes, is it safe... jury's out...

Mostly its all yarders all the time though.

 

[Skeans]

They are currently shovel and cat logging the piece next to the house here, a job I wish I could have got...

There is enough of the low land timber left that cat skidding is still viable, mostly DNR or large private ground. There is an outfit here in town that does small parcels with just a dozer, they swear by it, even though they own a skidder?

The tethering is around, but ya mixed results, at least one outfit I know of is giving it a go, the operators are nervous of course.

Personally I think its just a matter of time before some sort of catastrophic failure happens and someone gets killed that they realize its a bad idea. Is it productive yes, is it safe... jury's out...

Mostly its all yarders all the time though.

I know a few of the operators and owners of the tethering setups yes there's been a few little issues but with the level of required maintenance lines only being allowed for certain amount of time it's pretty safe. I've seen it done first hand there's two main ways for clear cutting around here one is a single main line the other has two lines and drums. The thinning has the T winch setup then the built into the machines. If you want info on what's allowed look at OSHA I'm not sure what Washington has for rules but typically Oregon is much more strict on rules for safety in the woods then Washington.

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[Skeans]

They are currently shovel and cat logging the piece next to the house here, a job I wish I could have got...

There is enough of the low land timber left that cat skidding is still viable, mostly DNR or large private ground. There is an outfit here in town that does small parcels with just a dozer, they swear by it, even though they own a skidder?

The tethering is around, but ya mixed results, at least one outfit I know of is giving it a go, the operators are nervous of course.

Personally I think its just a matter of time before some sort of catastrophic failure happens and someone gets killed that they realize its a bad idea. Is it productive yes, is it safe... jury's out...

Mostly its all yarders all the time though.

Do you know which system they're going with Summit Attachment or Tractionline?

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[northmanlogging]

Do you know which system they're going with Summit Attachment or Tractionline?

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not entirely sure, got to BSing with one of the guys... never mentioned what the machines etc.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I think I went too far in time.
Just three years before the chainsaw.
I believe the first saws were electric but limited range.

Queen Charlotte Islands.
and Bute inlet 1933
I know a guy really well that broke in Falling in the Charlotte's at 18.
with Crown Zellerbach in '68.
Said the biggest was a Western red Cedar in '69 that measured 22ft
If that's true that would be 3ft bigger than the current champion in NW WA. Second is about the same in Dia
and very close in distance on the south tip or Van I

 

[Skeans]

Here's one of C&C setups, not sure how many they are running now but last time I saw one of the owners they had 4 running 2 with grapple saws then 2 with hot saws.
Then a good family friend has two of these with intermediate saw heads.

Both companies and the owners we've known as a family for well over 60 years both will tell you that having the cable there will make you feel safer they always have tension on them.

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[Westboastfaller]

There is some of BC interior wet belt

Fun to watch but they can have that multi activity hot logging chit.
Looking by the Fallers V-neck shirt then maybe it's in the '80?
Looks like the hamster fell asleep at the wheel with that one faller for a while. Didn't look like he was looking up and wasn't going to move back one step.

I can believe 50 people would died per year here

 

[madhatte]

Cool videos!

I've never seen tethering done in person. I'd like to. I'm guessing that it's cheaper and more efficient that a yarder on moderate ground and in smaller timber?

 

[Skeans]

Cool videos!

I've never seen tethering done in person. I'd like to. I'm guessing that it's cheaper and more efficient that a yarder on moderate ground and in smaller timber?

Faster, cheaper, they can shovel the wood as well, then in a yarder setting it's better setup for a grapple yarder less guys on the ground means it's safer too.

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[Westboastfaller]

Cool to See Skeens.
It's a bitter sweet feeling.
You can't stop technology.
The Remote cat holding on to the buncher is south east Island about half hour from where I was raised.

Won't be a need for hand fallers next time around


I had a older customer telling me about it 7 months ago.

I know of the guy credited at the end of the video with the first remote cat I only met him a few time but hung out with his younger brother. Lots of friends worked for him for years in the Charlotte's. He had 5 logging companies there. The guys would fly back to town in his private jet.
Some people sure know how to make the money.

 

[Skeans]

Cool to See Skeens.
It's a bitter sweet feeling.
You can't stop technology.
The Remote cat holding on to the buncher is south east Island about half hour from where I was raised.

Won't be a need for hand fallers next time around


I had a older custom telling me about it 7 months ago.

I know of the guy credited at the end of the video with the first remote cat I only met him a few time but hung out with his younger brother. Lots of friends worked for him for years in the Charlotte's. He had 5 logging companies there. The guys would fly back to town in his private jet.
Some people sure know how to make the money.

Down here in Kelso Wa is one of the manufacturers and then one place that brings in the double drum setups. That said I've seen a remote cat setups at the Pape in Kelso our local Deere dealer someone had ordered earlier this year of all of them I'm not sure I'd buy any of them I understand where the guys are coming from but at some point are you really getting ahead any?

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[northmanlogging]

Ya all ever have an RC car wig out on ya?

or drop a tree on a tight cable.

or just a random material failure.

how about a cocky operator that believes he can push it just a little farther?

 

[Westboastfaller]

Or get drunk or lie to you or make a play on your ol' lady

Frickin loggers...they can invent that but not the remote GF

 

[madhatte]

It's weird to see them cutting stuff that hasn't even really started stem exclusion yet. I don't understand that market at all. I'm starting to feel old-ish -- stuff is moving pretty quick. When I started in this business in the early 90's, the spotted owl was just shutting things down. I bailed in the late 90's when the contract end of timber cruising wasn't paying (a lot of that was my fault, of course) and did 7 years in the Navy. When I got out, I finished school, and got this job. Since then, I've been on the same piece of ground for 10 years. Before the Navy, I was never in the same place for more than a couple of weeks. I feel like I've missed a lot, technology-wise, but I sure do know these 100K acres well. There are a couple of pieces I've cruised 4 times now for various reasons. I'm glad to have this forum as a resource because I've pulled a lot of ideas from here into my timber sales. I'm gonna see if I can't find a way to plan a sale using either tethers or corridors. We haven't done either and I bet we have a few places where those techniques make stuff possible that we can't do otherwise, and which still don't require a full yarder show. Thanks, y'all.

 

[Skeans]

Or get drunk or lie to you or make a play on your ol' lady

Frickin loggers...they can invent that but not the remote GF

The next step is get the operator off the hill completely like cat has already done at that base on the east coast completely remote operated from 20 miles away.

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[Skeans]

Ya all ever have an RC car wig out on ya?

or drop a tree on a tight cable.

or just a random material failure.

how about a cocky operator that believes he can push it just a little farther?

Have you ever seen these setups or the requirements on the guys running them?
Electronics are good for a mile distance, here they're no longer all to cut over the cable, too cocky the tail machine has a rip cord that if it lift 1/2" the whole thing shuts down and you're walking up the hill to check it over as well as restart. If the electronics have any issues talking The tail machine is shut down from memory as well. The reporting on these sides is nuts every little thing that goes wrong is logged in the computer and OSHA inspects these every 6 months here so the reporting is a must. The cable has a hour limit as well every week being unspooled for inspection all old cable must be present for OSHA inspection. This isn't a little cable skidder where you can get away with splicing stuff together it's people's lives that are hanging in the balance here.

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[northmanlogging]

Ya I get that.

So a half a million for each machine to potentially save what? Some L+I payments, get some more production, and put yet more people out of work?

All on the hopes that a computer and "good" maintenance are going to be enough.

Also I've had radios bug out from 10' away, let alone 20 miles.

And further, just because your not allowed doesn't mean some dick isn't going to try, or that trees have a mind of their own.

You seem dead set on trying this garbage out, go for it, tell us what you think. Contrary to what I put out on the enterweb, I'm all for change and improvement, but I'm not for needless, expensive, unproven, potentially unsafe or wasteful change.

 

[northmanlogging]

speaking of half a million per machine how long till that machine is paid for anyway? 4-5 years? and then you start seeing any real profit? likely not because the maintenance is going to be outrageous. So then what, drop another cool million on new machines?

 

[Gologit]

Have you ever seen these setups or the requirements on the guys running them?
Electronics are good for a mile distance, here they're no longer all to cut over the cable, too cocky the tail machine has a rip cord that if it lift 1/2" the whole thing shuts down and you're walking up the hill to check it over as well as restart. If the electronics have any issues talking The tail machine is shut down from memory as well. The reporting on these sides is nuts every little thing that goes wrong is logged in the computer and OSHA inspects these every 6 months here so the reporting is a must. The cable has a hour limit as well every week being unspooled for inspection all old cable must be present for OSHA inspection. This isn't a little cable skidder where you can get away with splicing stuff together it's people's lives that are hanging in the balance here.

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That's all well and good but what happens when things don't go as planned? What happens when the technology fails?
At what point do we say that the risks involved don't justify the effort and the cost?
I've been around machinery all my life. Machinery fails. I don't care how much research and development has gone into a complicated piece of equipment, there will be a point when some invisible genie unzips his pants and once again pisses all over the pillar of science.
You have a man hanging out there at the end of that tether. He willingly takes the risks into account but if it fails will his loss of life be considered acceptable? And by whom?
Another point is that it's the loggers, not the mill owners or the property owners, who are being required to bear the cost of the equipment. The logger, the person who works on the thinnest of profit margins, is asked to take the greatest risk both financially and from a safety standpoint. This needs to change.

 

[northmanlogging]

[QUOTE=" there will be a point when some invisible genie unzips his pants and once again pisses all over the pillar of science"[/QUOTE]

Priceless wisdom right there