How old was the tree? 1893 -1903. ?
Someone started cutting a tree down for us and hasn't finished the job
- Thread starter Kitkat1
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Oh I thought it was a Throwline LOL!
That yellow shît? That was buddy's, wasn't it. Don't think it was too much of a lean. Funny bull rope, though. Lots of holding wood to my standard by the looks of it. Thing is the tree can't progress forward unless the back fibers all break first. (From a Faller's point of view) Therefore they need to be cut. Slight forward leaning, this could cause a barber chair. Backwards leaning..I have wedged trees with too much holdings wood leaning over structures and they start to split maybe 1 1/2" up. Difference is one is like a nuclear explosion and the other resembles nuclear energy.
Just the very slightest differences in the ingredients & one is a slow rumble and the other a BOOM.
A will take a strong back leaner any day. At least the tree will talk to you first.
I'm wondering how deep the 2nd kerf is in the backcut? Big no no for driving wedges. I'd say that there was enough wood, but it looks like the wrong side was favored (looks like the left side of tree has the weight and the stump was cut up more on the right side). I could see that as a problem if he had more wedges in it, starting to pull the corner apart. If he repeatedly broke ropes trying to pull it & it didn't break when it sat back, I'd say that it could've been tipped. In any case, a guy would know whether or not it was gonna go or pop off of the stump if he decided to load up on wedges, or a ram.
It's just really hard to get an idea as to how much back/side lean there was. Done right, I still think it could've been an easy kill.
So
Yeah. Double cutting your back cut where wedges go, makes for a poor technique.
You think stump was cut up more on right side of picture? I don't think so. Or right side from the house you mean? He put a 'letter box' on the 'safe side' no? (Left side of pic) not that he is any authority) if that's what you are thinking then what's your indicator?
river of smoak
ArboristSite Member
I'm definitely no expert on stump reading , but that looks like an 18 inch bar and 4 beers to me 
@Weatboastfaller
Yeah. From the pics of the tree, it LOOKED like the majority of the back/side weight was in the 6‐9:00 area behind the stump in orientation to the face @ 12:00. Again, LOOKED. The other side of the hinge he favored, I'm sure with the house in mind. Hey he had the right idea there at least. I can't say if he ever saw the pull side start to widen due to him never getting his wedges driving. It does look like the house corner pulled & the opposite side compressed. A straight hinge, of half of the size of the big side, might've been a better deal.. Can't be sure of it obviously, but I think he had way to much wood on the side he favored. In my head, 3/4", well that may be a little conservative, 1.5" of wood across the face would've been enough. The good thing about having a plan is that a guy can scratch away if things dont seem right. As you mentioned, it's work trying to stand up & tip a tree with to much wood. Doesn't it look like the letterbox side pulled?
Yeah. From the pics of the tree, it LOOKED like the majority of the back/side weight was in the 6‐9:00 area behind the stump in orientation to the face @ 12:00. Again, LOOKED. The other side of the hinge he favored, I'm sure with the house in mind. Hey he had the right idea there at least. I can't say if he ever saw the pull side start to widen due to him never getting his wedges driving. It does look like the house corner pulled & the opposite side compressed. A straight hinge, of half of the size of the big side, might've been a better deal.. Can't be sure of it obviously, but I think he had way to much wood on the side he favored. In my head, 3/4", well that may be a little conservative, 1.5" of wood across the face would've been enough. The good thing about having a plan is that a guy can scratch away if things dont seem right. As you mentioned, it's work trying to stand up & tip a tree with to much wood. Doesn't it look like the letterbox side pulled?
The wedges are not in the same position they were in the first set of pictures. There was a lot of white sticking out in the first set of pictures so we probably cannot rely on those in the assessment. Then again, without being able to assess the double back cut, it could be that the crew that finished the job drove the wedges deeper which helped them pull it over.
I suspect that where the hinge was cut away it was a mistake... overcut and out of alignment with the cut from the other side... and not an intentional effort to swing the tree.
Alas... with just a few photos and not being there all this is speculation!
I suspect that where the hinge was cut away it was a mistake... overcut and out of alignment with the cut from the other side... and not an intentional effort to swing the tree.
Alas... with just a few photos and not being there all this is speculation!
The more I look at the different pictures, the more I don't know what in the **** to say.
Without being there & looking up, I dunno. The pic with the man in the boom lift makes it look like loads of weight out back.
Glossing over the other issues...That's a pretty beefy hinge, even for pulling. Is this common with ash for safety?
Patrick1903
ArboristSite Operative
Well, you saved the grave diggers some work.
A little bit, but not in the way you might think.When they were digging the gravesite, the hole I made from removing the tree would have reduced the amount of dirt they hauled off, and conveniently gave them a nearby source of dirt to fill the hole with.
Otherwise they would have had to haul in some dirt to fix the mess I made uprooting the tree.
I've found that with ash it depends... This tree still had a lot of small branches on it so it was still relatively sound and a hinge about 1/10 the diameter is fine. The fact that the ropes broke before the stem snapped off above the hinge also also supports the notion the tree was sound. This hinge is tall due to the relatively high back cut but I don't think it's particularly thick. Below is the photo the OP posted that shows the hinge after the first guy abandoned the job. We don't know if the higher back cut was a scoring cut or if it was a deep cut. There is some evidence of other scoring cuts above the top one... suggesting he had trouble with positioning and angling the back cut.
When I'm cutting ash that is significantly deteriorated I tend to make the hinge thinner with hopes that the tree stays together. I'm also loathe to try to make them fall significantly off their natural lean. I don't dog the saw in and lean on it either... I let the saw cut gently to avoid significant vibration. I don't bang wedges if rotten as the vibration can cause things to fall off, but I'll palm one to preserve the kerf if needed. I never try to rope them over as the tree is too likely to break off mid-stem. I have been known to push a tree over with my hands if it just needs a nudge. If a tree is really bad I've cut other trees to knock them over. In extremely rotten cases, when safe to do so, I leave trees to fall on their own--I'm typically cutting in the woods so worries about wires, buildings, roads, cars, etc. don't exist. I generally find them down after storms so it's unlikely anyone out walking or bicycling would have been around when they fell.
GL0B0TREE
Confidante
after all that what sort of dirt did you end up with?and just curious what happened to the wood from this job? just scrounging around for a similiar piece to this one, I can see why they put the fences around the graveyard as people are just simply dying to get in, preserves the wood even better.
Attachments
Walnut or Persimmon ?
GL0B0TREE
Confidante
When they were digging the gravesite, the hole I made from removing the tree would have reduced the amount of dirt they hauled off, and conveniently gave them a nearby source of dirt to fill the hole with.
Otherwise they would have had to haul in some dirt to fix the mess I made uprooting the tree.
Attachments
sliceoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Wow. I could be a tree guy. Slap a saw against a healthy tree. Tell the homeowner it's hollow and I need more equipment. Demand 100% payment up front and disappear. Easy gig.
You're ready to work around here. That is exactly the calls I used to get for others that prcatice organized hit and run tree work. I just walk away even if it's leaning on a building or their house. I tell them to get someone bonded and notify the local authorities to give them all the info you have.
Good Luck is my parting gift to them free of charge.
I've noticed that about the tree workers I've hired. They act so sad and give you a sob story about needing money up front. When they are on the job, they are so nice to you and you begin to believe they are kind folks. Don't trust them. I have recent personal experience that many of these guys will do the work if you still owe them money. As soon as you pay them everything up front, they put you off. At first, they text you excuses of why they can't finish. Then, if you press them, they quit texting altogether.
Never pay upfront and don't use them if they ask, that suggests crack heads or Meth heads to me !
