Someone started cutting a tree down for us and hasn't finished the job

[pdqdl]

That's a cool tool. I've never seen that before.

Unfortunately, most tree services have bull ropes, and don't use wire rope. Furthermore, the GRCS has the ability to feed out rope under extreme load with good control. It has a dead-load lift capacity of 3,000lbs, which beats your Griphoist by a bit.

Wire ropes have less shock loading capacity than a synthetic rope, too. Sometimes that stretch is important to have, other times, not so good at all.

 

[sean donato]

@pdqdl I'm pretty sure the grip hoist lines goes up to 8k lbs single line pull, model dependent of course. They are pretty cool, but pack a heck of a price tag.

 

[pdqdl]

Pound for pound, I'll bet the GRCS is more expensive.

Griphoist looks really effective, but it would require being committed to using wire rope. That comes with a whole stack of special considerations for working in trees.

EDIT: Oh yes. That griphoist is much less expensive than a GRCS. The biggest model costs just a bit more than the GRCS, and has more than twice the effective line pull.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRIPHOIST-TIRFOR-Manual-Cable-Hoist-8-6XXG0
vs

https://wesspur.com//good-rigging-control-system/good-rigging-control-system.html

That being said, I'd still rather have a GRCS, and I'll bet the GRCS pulls the same load much faster. With no reverse, the GRCS can release a rope a heck of a lot easier, too. They also have two speeds, so taking up the slack and then adding tension is just faster and easier.

 

[Bill G]

Only a few times in my career has a homeowner tried to tell me how to do my job, and once it was a friend (who was losing her mind to stage-three brain cancer.....................

Over the years I have hired a multitude of skilled trades folk. I rarely are around when they do the work as I am elsewhere working. I just show them the job and let them decide how to accomplish it. That works well most of the time. I had one dispute over a unfinished roof and a some shoddy trim work on a siding job. It was resolved. When it comes to tree work around rental houses if it is something I cannot handle or do not want to handle I have one company I call and tell them what tree I need down. I tell them to put it on the ground and mail me a bill. The only time I have ever tried to advise them was on a large Elm for my father. I made sure I got over there before the got it all the way to the stem. I knew there were steel T-posts in the crotch up about 5 feet that were into the limbs. I wanted to make sure they did not cut into them.

 

[sean donato]

Pound for pound, I'll bet the GRCS is more expensive.

Griphoist looks really effective, but it would require being committed to using wire rope. That comes with a whole stack of special considerations for working in trees.

EDIT: Oh yes. That griphoist is much less expensive than a GRCS. The biggest model costs just a bit more than the GRCS, and has more than twice the effective line pull.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRIPHOIST-TIRFOR-Manual-Cable-Hoist-8-6XXG0
vs

https://wesspur.com//good-rigging-control-system/good-rigging-control-system.html

That being said, I'd still rather have a GRCS, and I'll bet the GRCS pulls the same load much faster. With no reverse, the GRCS can release a rope a heck of a lot easier, too. They also have two speeds, so taking up the slack and then adding tension is just faster and easier.

I have no experience with the gcrs. I checked out the link you posted. Looks like a slick set up for tree work.
Taking slack is very easy with the grip hoist, just pull the cable through. The reverse features is a safty feature, basically a dead man so the load is always controlled even if the operator looses control. I think it has more to do with being life line and over head rated and not being geared to tree work specifically.
I could see either being used effectively.

 

[old CB]

What I'm wondering is why the professional tree service that finished the job didn't just set two ropes in the tree and pull it over?

Maybe because they could not trust the holding wood left by a poor operator? As you know, when pulling a back leaner you need the right amount and right configuration of holding wood for the tree to go where you want it.

I'm willing to credit the operator who cleaned up the job, rather than to second guess from a few non-detailed pics on our site.

 

[old CB]

Griphoist looks really effective, but it would require being committed to using wire rope. That comes with a whole stack of special considerations for working in trees.

Yep, for most of us who deal with medium to large-ish trees, rope is the thing. Mainly just for the humongous timber on the west coast is wire rope worth messing with.

As a favor to a friend, I helped a guy do some pulling nearby with wire rope. He had to pull quite a ways down a drive to get his steel extended before he could pull. I was back at the pulling point thinking--You could have started from here with rope hitched to your trailer ball.

 

[chipper1]

Griphoist!

Skidding winch .

 

[pdqdl]

The reverse features is a safty feature, basically a dead man so the load is always controlled even if the operator looses control. I think it has more to do with being life line and over head rated and not being geared to tree work specifically.

Unless I am mistaken, there will be no way for the griphoist to escape the cable if it is under a load, right? Sure, you got reverse, but it will require being clicked out a little bit at a time until it is no longer under a load.

The GRCS is configured to let go of a load while still controlling it with a quick yank of the rope's tail. Let's say that something adverse happens while you are winching a heavy load, and you need to let go of the tree. You'll be stuck to the cable with the griphoist, and the GRCS is only scant moments away from freedom, providing the operator is skilled and attentive.

Go to 3:40 on the video to review the rope releasing method for the GRCS.

 

[sean donato]

Unless I am mistaken, there will be no way for the griphoist to escape the cable if it is under a load, right? Sure, you got reverse, but it will require being clicked out a little bit at a time until it is no longer under a load.

The GRCS is configured to let go of a load while still controlling it with a quick yank of the rope's tail. Let's say that something adverse happens while you are winching a heavy load, and you need to let go of the tree. You'll be stuck to the cable with the griphoist, and the GRCS is only scant moments away from freedom, providing the operator is skilled and attentive.

Go to 3:40 on the video to review the rope releasing method for the GRCS.

Like I said above they are designed for different tasks. I wasn't debating the merrit of which one is better, just I can see both being useful. Both are interesting designs, I've only used the grip hoist and in totally different circumstances then just lowering a branch to the ground....

 

[Del_]

I bought my GRCS directly from Greg Good back in 2002.

And my Hobbs Lowering Device directly from Don Blair in 1990.

For pulling trees over I mostly used one of the two Maasdam rope pullers rigged for 2/1 and sometimes 4/1 mechanical advantage.

 

[Kitkat1]

Except they paid him in full for a job he couldn't do. Loose cannon or not he should at least refund their money. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks so much for sharing your adventure with us.

If the guy that walked away ever ask about his ropes, etc, my advice is to let him get his stuff in peace and make it clear that he needs to do it quickly and move on.

There is nothing to be gained by talking with him, arguing, giving him hell or chastising him for his actions or trying to cause him legal or business trouble.

Some tree workers are loose cannons and you guys don't want or need someone like that holding a grudge against you.

In the end you got a fair price for the job done so there is no financial benefit to be gained by invoking lawyers, the police, small claims court, etc.



I know I speak for all of us when I thank you for sharing your story.

Lesson learned!

Thank you for your feedback and advice. We would like our money back but have no desire to file a civil claim. As Jim (the man who did remove the tree) said, that guy probably has a jar full of change sitting on his dresser for gas money. As you can probably tell from my sporadic messages, I have little time to invest in litigation, especially when I will never see a penny. Jim (the good tree guy) had first told us that we should call the company the dude works for and tell his boss, Mike (he even provided us with Mike's name). But, after they returned to remove the tree, Jim said I shouldn't call Mike, but he didn't give a reason why (I wish I had asked why he changed his mind). He even said that we shouldn't let the dude know who DID remove the tree. It made me wonder if there is something up with this entire company that the dude works for, like maybe they are all crooks who like to retaliate. The only thing my husband has done is to send a Venmo request to the dude for the entire amount back ($750 - he was also supposed to cut two large branches from another tree hanging over our house, but he didn't do that, either). Of course, the dude has not responded, but he also has no asked for his ropes, which are still in the forest. My husband would rather eventually retrieve them rather than to let them just rot in the forest, but we have no intention of selling them to recoup our money. Who knows, we may need them one day! Thank you again!

 

[Kitkat1]

Wow.
After seeing that picture, I believe the only thing keeping that tree off your home was God!
Glad you got someone who could jump on it right away.
As for the actual height of it, I'd trust their judgment as they were right there with a piece of equipment they know the height/reach of.

Thank you! Someone else asked for pics of the stump, but this thread is so long now (and full of wonderful information and advice!), that I can't even find the original requester, so I am going to post the pic of the stump here. The lower side is facing the forest. The crew who did remove the tree did not make any additional cuts before pulling the remaining trunk into the forest using the dude's ropes. As you can see, the dude's wedges are right where he left them.

 

[Kitkat1]

This lady got burned twice!

It was an easy job with some rope, a shot line and two lugalls anchored to something way out there. This is a complete **** show from start finish imho.
1/3 up front and not dime more till it hits the ground. I wouldn't ask for anything upfront on one day or less.

Sadness here.

 

[Kitkat1]

This lady got burned twice!

It was an easy job with some rope, a shot line and two lugalls anchored to something way out there. This is a complete **** show from start finish imho.
1/3 up front and not dime more till it hits the ground. I wouldn't ask for anything upfront on one day or less.

Sadness here.

For the record, my husband did all the choosing and negotiating, so I guess we both got burned. I questioned why we would need to pay the dude anything up front to remove a tree, but since he had done consistent work for two neighbors and is friends with one of them, we didn't really think he had nefarious intentions. He even showed up and worked on the tree several times before going awol on us. He currently has an upcoming job for our neighbor to plant about 60 arborvitaes along their side and back property line (safer than taking them down, I suppose). We have not seen them yet to tell them what happened, but if he is the retaliatory type, I'm not sure I want to bad mouth him to anyone. I honestly don't know how to stop him from doing this to someone else.

 

[JRM]

Personally I couldn't imagine going through something like this and not tell my neighbor. But I know some people live next door to each other and go years without speaking....
I suppose it depends on the relationship you have with each other and whether you feel they should know that you got ripped off and put in a very dangerous situation by the guy they have hired to do work for them.

 

[Kitkat1]

Personally I couldn't imagine going through something like this and not tell my neighbor. But I know some people live next door to each other and go years without speaking....
I suppose it depends on the relationship you have with each other and whether you feel they should know that you got ripped off and put in a very dangerous situation by the guy they have hired to do work for them.

It's a weird dynamic because the neighbor having the future work done is much closer friends than we are with their next door neighbors who are long-time friends with the dude (and who also hired dude to take down their three trees successfully). We like to mind our own business while remaining friendly with our neighbors, and I don't want everyone to turn on us for "badmouthing" someone they apparently seem to like very much. My neighbor has basically made this dude her personal landscaper since moving in two years ago, so it seems like they already have a good relationship going. I'm sure my husband will at least warn them not to pay him anything up front.

 

[Lightning Performance]

It's a weird dynamic because the neighbor having the future work done is much closer friends than we are with their next door neighbors who are long-time friends with the dude (and who also hired dude to take down their three trees successfully). We like to mind our own business while remaining friendly with our neighbors, and I don't want everyone to turn on us for "badmouthing" someone they apparently seem to like very much. My neighbor has basically made this dude her personal landscaper since moving in two years ago, so it seems like they already have a good relationship going. I'm sure my husband will at least warn them not to pay him anything up front.

I get the weird dynamic thing.

My take on this is trauma or drugs/alcohol. I see people turn on a dime when a major trauma comes into their life or copious amounts of drugs or alcohol. Their "new" game becomes drink, drugs or whatever. Advances on pay or payments are a sure sign of financial problems most times on one day jobs. I tend to tell people how my experience went versus dumping on the job. Just focus on the person's behavior. Let your neighbors and friends know what happened to you. They can draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions about money or payments for work not yet performed.

People will soon be asking him why a tree company had to be called to finish his work he abandoned.

I've personally had customers ask me to take the guys gear and ropes with me. I refused. They could be in jail or worse. Not my problem so I'm not getting involved. I take care of the problem. Last one it took about two hours to get his messes of rope and tie offs out of the tree. This guy obviously couldn't climb, rig or do much with a saw like you experienced. Getting down his hung-up tops was a trick. I used a bigger tree behind the house as my safety line and did some creative climbing. Three hours there in total to get the tree limbed, topped and chunked down. They gave me extra to buck it all. Just a maple tree nothing special but half dead full canopy about a 75fter. They were charged far less and had zero fence damage. Couple of divots in the lawn, no other issues. His gear was all used rags mostly and left behind on this one. Not sure he had a power saw. All his cuts were hand cut breakouts hanging off trash ropes stuck in the canopy right next to the house and fence. I started at the bottom like any intelligent climb does and no one had been ttt to hang a rope or rigging lines. It looked like amateur 101 bit off more then they could chew.

Never pay upfront. If you do get a signed dated receipt and a date of completion in writing. If you ever feel pressured stop and walk away. You can get ten estimates next time. Never take the cheapest ones. This is what you get sometimes. Some lessons cost more than others. Move on and be glad it didn't come off backwards. His inability to finish may have saved you much much more in reality. Your home is safe again now.

 

[Westboastfaller]

What are you guys thoughts on the stump.? How was the holding wood? Would it had fell unwelcomelly with or without wedges in the back cut? Why are the fibers pulling to the left of pic and the corner of back cut got smashed up? Was that where the truck could go? They could have cut the branches in order to use the truck and pull it off the 'extended direction of aim'?

Thoughts? because it's bedtime in London Town.

Check in tomorrow,

That is certainly a 7 1/2" K&H wedge (for reference) looks to be a 12" next to it.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Look at the rope, obviously a hack job... not sure how bad the back lean was, but damn, that rope...