Sometimes you feel like a hack.......

[GlennG]

I showed up at a customers house today to do a dead spruce removal . The tree was hit by lightning quite some time ago and was hard as granite. Above 10 ft I could not get a spur to penetrate deeper than an 1/8" of an inch and no matter how hard I tried I just kept skidding down the trunk . After about an hour of total frustration I said screw it lets get the ladder. After we returned with a 28 foot ladder and set it up I used the Big Shot:angel: to set a pull rope way up high. Then I climbed the ladder, safteyed in , cut my face notch & back cut leaving a huge 2 inch hinge. I knocked in a wedge , climbed down and together with my groundie pulled a 50 foot top out safely. Everything went according to "Plan B". BUT....... using the ladder I felt a little less than proffesional . I take pride in climbing but this job left me feeling like "Harry Homeowner the village idiot". With everyones wisdom and experience...how would you have aproached this job? The tree could not be felled because power lines where 65 feet from the base and the tree was 75 feet tall. It was in a in a small group of other spruces and there was a house 20 feet behind it. So there was only a 20 degree safe direction of fall. No flames please just objective opinions please.

 

[rbtree]

Not trying to be rude, but I suggest sharpening your gaffs...and make sure the profile is correct, meaning an outward curve on the last 3/8th inch or so of the tip.

There is no way dead spruce could be as hard as dead pacific madrona, and a sharp gaff has no problems holding in that wood. It just only penetrates a tiny bit.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by GlennG
BUT....... using the ladder I felt a little less than proffesional . I take pride in climbing but this job left me feeling like "Harry Homeowner the village idiot".

Why? Just because you used a ladder? As long as you had everything tied off and secure(including you) theres nothing wrong with doing like you did.

I've never climbed a tree so seasoned my spurs couldn't gain purchase. Power poles are the hardest wood I've ever spurred into.
Were your gaffs good and sharp?

 

[Stumper]

I can't imagine an ungaffable spruce but why worry about using a ladder? The general public can't imagine NOT using a ladder. Some of our number post deprecatory statements about ladders but realistically they are frequently the most practical way to access a tree.

 

[GlennG]

They look sharp feel sharp and are fine for live trees but not needle point sharp. I will have to freshen them up. I`ve climbed poles too and never experienced what I did today. I was tied into an adjacent tree for escape if need be, and I prayed a lot too!!!


Thanks
Glenn

 

[GlennG]

Could the lightning strike make the wood abnormaly hard? Also maybe I am being over critical of myself using the ladder but In thinking out the climb the night before I just didn`t figure in the ladder scenario. I would have saved myself 3 hours if I had just planned on using it in the first place . From now on the ladder stays on the truck.

Glenn

 

[Koa Man]

I almost always use either a 8 ft. or 12 ft. straight ladder to get into a tree. On most of the trees here, that will be enough to get you to the first lateral or over other obstructions around the base of the tree. It will save you a lot of energy not having to SRT or DRT that first few feet up the trunk. I always carry those 2 straight ladders and a 14 ft. orchard ladder on my truck.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

YOur spikes must have the wrong profile. They aren't supposed to be pointed. The profile has a taper that is unique. Using a gauge will keep the taper right. Never file off material on the outside of the spike.

Tom

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

My worry wouldn't be about how i looked (good thing!!), but about getting hurt if tree went early; then worry about "Harry Homeowner" getting hurt trying to duplicate roughly, what you are balancing as an art; and taking it that unordinary (for your strategies) direction.

 

[SilverBlue]

Sharpening gaffs

Had a climber sharpen his own and got the angles wrong, if you are not sure-get them done professionally, but the prices here almost comes close to a new pair on our Kleins.

 

[Matt Follett]

Glenn

I agree with the latter comments so far, don't beat yourself up over that.... BUT.....

Your comment abour climbing down to help your groundie pull scares me, perhaps more because the tree was dead, and the relative unperdictablity of dead spruce.
Don't get me wrong, I've walked around to help the crew pull over a spar (keep your distance as you go)...
But climbing down with a 50' top hanging on it's hinge, perfectly cut,... fat or not, would scare me.

Block and tackles are wonderful tools, particularily for limited staffed crews, with pre-planing you can have effectively five people pulling the tag line rather then just one, and there are good systems out there for about two days worth of groundie wages.

All you need is an anchor point to hook to and these are generally not hard to find (or make).

They can also be used to lift limbs when rigging, pre-tension lines etc. etc.

 

[underwor]

I did not learn the footlock until I was close to 50, so I now lack the flexibility to do it well. Body thrusting is getting a little rough at 200+ lbs and 56 years although it is still my main approach to entering trees. I am really getting to like a ladder to access most any tree, at least to the lower limbs. Then I have someone get it out of my way in case I need to descend quickly. I see nothing wrong with using it if it makes the job safer and keeps me doing what I enjoy for a few more years. Lately I am also using ascenders more often as an alternative to footlocking. Just keep safe, do good work after you get into the tree and don't worry what people think, most of them can not even imagine climbing a ladder that high.

Bob Underwood

PS. I know that most of you have a ladder taller than our trees in Bottineau, but I still get to climb a big one occasionally!!!!

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by GlennG
I knocked in a wedge , climbed down and together with my groundie pulled a 50 foot top out safely.

I didn't catch that the first time around.

I've never heard of such a thing in my life!

DON'T do that again!

Other methods exist that you should have used.
More groundman pulling power
Pull a smaller top out
Remove weight from the backside(roping)
Rope the top out

You mentioned 'everything went according to plan'. I think too much luck was in the equation.
Never let 'luck' enter into your calculations. It can turn around and bite you in the boo-tay.
Blood and destruction can ruin your whole day.

 

[Matt Follett]

Master Blaster,

Thanks for the back up, I was going to be harder on him for that, but well I'm a softy, or well at least soft spoken I think

This sort of manouver scares the #$%% out of me,

Like I said, I've walked AROUND the spar to help on the pull(probably should'nt be admiting that though!!), but to come down out of a tree with that up there!!!

Proper leverage should have let his groundie pull it over by him/her self, The height of the pull line tie in should be addressed here as well perhaps,... Glenn, always tie in as high as you can go and still have strength remaining in the spar, there has been lots of discussion on this here before, do a search and see some of the techniques discussed in pulling stuff over.

Fifty feet of top seems like alot of top to be tipping out in a confined space without all the tools to do the job safely (that's sort of a general statment, because you should always have the tools to do the job safely)

just another two cents

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

What's worse, being up in a dead tree with somebody pulling sideways on it, or climbing down with a notch and backcut made?

They both sound bad to me.

 

[MasterBlaster]

If the tree was THAT dead no climber should be in it, anyway.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

So MB, you would walk from the job?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I would drive up with a crane.


No mention in GlenG's post as to whether or not a crane could get to it.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Your faced with a small challenge and you use a crane?

Let's say there's no access.

 

[Matt Follett]

Mike brings up a valid point. (Man I hate dead trees, We did a big sugar maple yesterday, I wasn't in this one, just working the ground, we went small, and tied in big wood, only rigged what HAD to be, to clear obstacles and had rigging point on opposite spar as climber. freaky to watch limbs EXPLODE when they hit the ground.)

However, I still think given what we have been told, either more ground support was required, or some sort of mechanical advantage.

But why was such a large piece required Glenn, could you have safely climbed higher once you were in the branch structure? Was there and branch structure to climb???, or due to the surrounding trees was this a bean pole of a tree with no climb-able limbs? were the surrounding trees live, and able to support a rigging point to lower off of, This might have been a viable option (as I think you mentioned you were tied into a seperate tree, But that might be a wrong recollection of facts)

It is hard to say what I would have done without the whole senario, however I KNOW I would not have climbed down with 50 feet of top over my head, I probably would have taken smaller pieces, not rigged and just sectioned out stuff I could handle in the tree myself, but that's with what I have so far in terms of site specifics.