Splitting methodology - long billets or firewood length rings/rounds?

[zogger]

Imagine if that split on both strokes a bit like the tempest splitter. It would be a special bit of kit. Here's the tempest idea:

That is outstanding! Not quite a full fledged wood processor, but man it knocks out the splits fast and easy looking!

 

[blacklocst]

That splitter is a beast you could make two wind rows at a time by towing the unit foward as you split.

 

[KiwiBro]

That splitter is a beast you could make two wind rows at a time by towing the unit foward as you split.

Yep. If the same concept was applied to the previous long billet splitter, there could be neat rows of 3 or 4' long billets that the drum/barrel splitter could be towed down a year later. And it would be a darn fast production speed. The price of the Temple is pretty steep for what is still just a splitter (albeit a very good one) though.

 

[gdavis24]

In New England we generally cut trees to 4' lengths with a chainsaw, then split with 6lb hammer and two steel wedges. Splits were loaded, hauled and stacked in spring to dry for the summer. in fall we used tractor PTO and belt to power a big round blade buzzsaw/bucksaw unit. Using Three men, one to load split onto bucksaw cradle, one to push cradle and cut split, one to catch cutoffs and toss into wagon, headed to woodshed. All cuts were 3x16", but suppose could have done 4x12".
No one will say so, but my guess this tradition grew from back when trees were cut with a two man saw. The first mechanization they could expect was a bucksaw powered by steam tractor, Model T, so forth. Farm Work was slow in the winter. They had no chainsaw, no hydraulics, and lots of time to split by hand.

 

[alexp_uk]

...

1. The wood here is often not straight. Even if it is only 4" wood but has 6" deviation over about 3 or 4', that would still need the chambers of the bucking barrel to be quite large. What is the biggest such machine or one with the biggest chambers?
2. For the straighter wood, is their any such machine like these that has a longer barrel and will handle longer billets? I can see another species here that is straight softwood and it would be easy to load a machine with 8' (about 2m) stems, for example. It would save the time having to cut and handle so many smaller pieces.
3. Are such machines self powered rather that tractor PTO? I ask because there are times when we cannot stage the processing - do all the harvesting then do all the processing. Instead, we have to have a constant flow of green, split firewood and this means the tractor which is running the winch can't be used for running anything else at the same time.
4. Can the machines use conventional, stand-alone conveyors rather than the built-in one I see most of them have? I ask because if I already have a self-powered conveyor, it seems like duplicating machines a little bit, which isn't needed if we are batch processing all the logs into rounds before splitting them.

Also, is there any clever ideas how everyone cuts logs into these billet lengths? Is it simply done with a chainsaw on the ground or are logs lifted into a rack or racks and then many are cut with a chainsaw at one time or is there something else used?
...

Those barrel saws sure do look good.

I'd been thinking about replacing my saw bench. Mainly due to health and safety concerns - but held off because the newer small sawbenches are just less productive (and only marginally safer) than what I currently have (it is all guarded / has operator emergency power disengage etc - but the emergency braking time for the saw is longer than current guidelines for circular saws - those guidelines don't necessarily apply to mobile firewood equipment - they were designed more for table saws in woodworking shops but still - safety isn't something to play at).

These barrel saws look both safe and very productive. The only thing I don't like (like most firewood machinery I see) is the price! I'm going to have a look at one at the end of this month though so maybe ....

I haven't found any with a larger barrel to take longer wood - most seem to suggest approx 4' max length - some designs seem to have some guarding which would stop you using anything longer - but with most I guess it's just a case of having enough length in the barrel to stop the stick falling out - but also imagine that the longer the barrel the more difficult it is to load.

re the power the one I'm looking at has options for electric or pto powered (+/- using tractor hydraulics for the conveyor) - I'm tending towards the fully pto powered - they don't require high HP and aren't particularly heavy so if necessary a 2nd hand compact tractor seems a cheaper more flexible option than a dedicated engine (plus can move it around easily that way)

No idea on the conveyors - they seem to have them built in but might be worth finding a dealer and seeing if its an option which could bring the price down a bit.

For the cutting into billet length rounds - I've only ever seen people doing this manually with chain saws (for me I do it before transport at the tree - saves a lot of skidding / winching and large machinery which only seems worth it to me if you want longer lengths for milling into lumber)- but there are larger processors out there which can handle that size

That sort of machine is just way out of my league though so know nothing about them except that they exist.

 

[KiwiBro]

Thank you Alex. Nobody here sells them but I have imported machinery before and would do so again if it is a great machine.
A stand alone elevator is still needed for splitting wood to big for the chambers in the drum. So if the machine can be sold without elevator, great.
Also needs to be PTO and gasoline engine powered so that it is not hogging the tractor when the latter is needed elsewhere at the same time. There are no power outlets in the bush or on the roadside where I usually process the wood. Could buy a generator I suppose.
It costs too much already transporting my gear from job to job so I hope I don't have to buy another tractor just to run the drum saw.
There looks to be enough room between chambers to mount telescopic supports if feeding it longer wood. Logs could be loaded straight off the trailer which is already 1m off the ground. It would be great to know how strong the drum Axel mounting and bearings are to check if it would handle the longer logs of 2.1m.
If you are able to get any photos or more info when you visit the dealer, please could you let us know?
Thanks very much.

I did email the manufacturer of these but no reply yet.

 

[alexp_uk]

Sure - will ask about handling longer lengths when I see one - though do wonder whether its more that the saw tends to bind in the cut with too much length / leverage - it's what happens if the length is too long when cutting on a table - but that has gravity working against you all the time.

Would something like the following be easier to adapt for longer lengths - less fiddling round trying to stick a long length into a moving target (oops that wasn't meant to sound like boasting)

 

[KiwiBro]

Hi Alex,

Here's a couple of other options.
Kretzer do a drum saw:
http://mk-forsttechnik.de/
and had a UK agent/rep:
www.cottagefirewood.co.uk/

Then there is an interesting option from a manufacturer called Growi. Their model, which I think I've seen somewhere else but can't put my mouse on it is called "hannibal":
http://www.growi-maschinenbau.de/show.php


And whilst we are dreaming, I am very much liking:
http://www.pezzolato.it/en/prodotto/redline/tb-900
here it is in action, in combination with a Growi cutter:

 

[KiwiBro]

Would something like the following be easier to adapt for longer lengths - less fiddling round trying to stick a long length into a moving target (oops that wasn't meant to sound like boasting)

That Posch smart cut 700 looks very slick. I wonder what consequences would be if it were constantly loaded with 2m long logs. Things like would the logs then be positioned incorrectly at the blade for an effective cut, or perhaps the leverage on the reciprocating chute mechanism would wear it prematurely? But that machine looks really good. And safe.

Found a price online and it was just over US$14k. Ouch!

 

[KiwiBro]

Here's a cheaper yet still productive option. Essentially a regular PTO buzz/cordwood saw but with two blades:

This is Posch's


And here is Scheppach's (has a tilting cradle to help eject the cut pieces):

 

[7sleeper]

You mean you would like something like this. There are quite a few who have homemade models.









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[KiwiBro]

One nagging thought is even though these are clever bits of kit that look effective, the billets still have to be produced and unless we have a heap of 4" wood, there could be quite a few largish trunks that would need to be split into billets small enough for these machines to handle. By the time we've got a machine that would handle our bigger wood, is it still going to be worthwhile making long splits (if the wood can handle being split long)?

On that note, here's an interesting splitter. I've seen a few similar designs on youtube. The thing about videos is they can't really answer crucial questions like - "will it work on our species of trees?" and "how does it handle knots?". But I guess we could simply buck the knotty wood into firewood sized lengths and put four or so rings into the splitter at once.

 

[KiwiBro]

You mean you would like something like this. There are quite a few who have homemade models.

These look like a far less "busy" way of handling the billets while still producing highly. What I don't like about them is the constrained length of billet feedstock. The duo/duel buzzsaws and some of the drumsaws allow the user, with the aid of a support but within a certain center of gravity limit, to use longer billets/logs and just keep feeding the machine with 'em.

 

[7sleeper]

Here is another one made with a band saw.



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[7sleeper]

These look like a far less "busy" way of handling the billets while still producing highly. What I don't like about them is the constrained length of billet feedstock. The duo/duel buzzsaws and some of the drumsaws allow the user, with the aid of a support but within a certain center of gravity limit, to use longer billets/logs and just keep feeding the machine with 'em.

You will have to deside beforehand which way you want to go. Make 1 metre splits and enjoy the easiness of stacking for drying or cut everything small and splitt right away and then just dump onto a large pile to let it dry. As always the decision is up to you.

7

 

[KiwiBro]

Here is another one made with a band saw.

Those guys also do one with two circular saw blades. What's interesting about their approach is it conveys the billets up to height rather than later having to convey the cut output up to height. But this may be somewhat inflexible because if greater height or reach was needed, a conveyor is still going to be needed.

 

[KiwiBro]

You will have to deside beforehand which way you want to go.

The issue is that there are no such long splitters here for me to learn if they would handle our wood OK. At least none that I'm aware of. So the risks of being what would be considered an early adopter of such an approach here are quite a deterrent. Pine, no problem. But what about twisty grained Eucs? I was splitting some 1' long rounds of gum today and the grain wants to twist on the wedge, sometimes about 45 degrees over just 1'! Imagine what it would want to do if trying to split a 3' billet.

In some of those billet splitting videos, they raise the wedge up and down as the wood passes through it, to compensate, but I don't think that would be enough for the really twisted grain woods. The resulting billets would probably not get passed 1 1/2' long, tapering to nothing, so that when the billets are then put through the final bucking operation, there might be too many little bits of kindling.

Again, this is all speculation on my part because there isn't anything like these splitters here for me to try, at least not that I am aware of. But we have our main ag show in a few days here (biggest in Aussie and NZ) so maybe there will be something there for me to try.

I guess one thing reducing the risks might be that for the times we come across twisted grain or knotty wood, we could always just buck it into the regular 1' rounds or what have you, and load three of them into the splitter to be split the usual way rather than try to create 3' billets.

 

[zogger]

Those guys also do one with two circular saw blades. What's interesting about their approach is it conveys the billets up to height rather than later having to convey the cut output up to height. But this may be somewhat inflexible because if greater height or reach was needed, a conveyor is still going to be needed.

In the olden daze with small square bales, they used a kicker to get them into a wagon. (this was much cooler over a hook and doing it by hand off the ground..much cooler...) Something like that would be way more fun with firewood over a common conveyor...add just the right amount of nutso fun danger......just sayin' work doesn't have to be drudgery

added bonus, it would help to knock dirt and bark off....

 

[KiwiBro]

In the olden daze with small square bales, they used a kicker to get them into a wagon. (this was much cooler over a hook and doing it by hand off the ground..much cooler...) Something like that would be way more fun with firewood over a common conveyor...add just the right amount of nutso fun danger......just sayin' work doesn't have to be drudgery

added bonus, it would help to knock dirt and bark off....

The first time I tried to modify an electric treadmill to become a conveyor, I could fire split wood straight over my truck. Fun for all the family.

 

[KiwiBro]

For those gravity fed bucking machines like the drum saws, Growi 'Hannibal' and the Posche 'SmartCut', what's stopping the feedstock binding on the blade? Or is this one of the reasons they tend to limit the size of the feedstock, because they rely on the blade momentarily handling the weight and if the wood was heavier it would ask too much of the blade or the spindle the blade is on?

Also, what's the largest saw bucking circular saw blade that's readily available for things like processors?