Starting a cut
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Lots a good advice. I too do not see the need or exertion needed to to plunge cuts. Some comments on previous posts
Two saws: For certain sure but don't get bit like I did. Out to cut and my bucking saw became very hard to start and died constantly. Go to backup 041 av. Choke, switch on, pull RATCHET!. RATCHET!. Okay, back to town to the service man. (was a worn out clutch ring). Moral: Make sure both saws will run before leaving.
I always work from the top of tree down. Maybe just personal preference but I think it is a lot safer. By the time I get to the big stuff, most of the compression/tension problems have worked themselves out.
I have not had a problem rolling logs up to 2ft without a canthook. I have one but it hasn't left the shop in 20 years - nothing but a nuisance to keep track of. How do I roll em? Someone else said it, cut 3 or 4 rounds down to near bottom (or pinch) then cut through and roll the short section. Yes, you do have to cut a bit of dirt but that's life. A canthook ain't agonna roll a 20 ft 18-30" crooked log - at least I'm not man enough.
Harry K
Two saws: For certain sure but don't get bit like I did. Out to cut and my bucking saw became very hard to start and died constantly. Go to backup 041 av. Choke, switch on, pull RATCHET!. RATCHET!. Okay, back to town to the service man. (was a worn out clutch ring). Moral: Make sure both saws will run before leaving.
I always work from the top of tree down. Maybe just personal preference but I think it is a lot safer. By the time I get to the big stuff, most of the compression/tension problems have worked themselves out.
I have not had a problem rolling logs up to 2ft without a canthook. I have one but it hasn't left the shop in 20 years - nothing but a nuisance to keep track of. How do I roll em? Someone else said it, cut 3 or 4 rounds down to near bottom (or pinch) then cut through and roll the short section. Yes, you do have to cut a bit of dirt but that's life. A canthook ain't agonna roll a 20 ft 18-30" crooked log - at least I'm not man enough.
Harry K
Harry K,
You're right about bucking and safety. I disagree, however, about cutting dirt. Generally there will be a few spots where the tree won't be in contact with the ground. I'll pick those spots and cut up from the bottom to shorten the log for rolling.
Another option is to drop a small tree perpendicular to the tree/trees, that is/are to be felled and buck across it.
You're right about bucking and safety. I disagree, however, about cutting dirt. Generally there will be a few spots where the tree won't be in contact with the ground. I'll pick those spots and cut up from the bottom to shorten the log for rolling.
Another option is to drop a small tree perpendicular to the tree/trees, that is/are to be felled and buck across it.
ricksvar
ArboristSite Operative
When bucking a log I seldom,if ever,roll it.I make all clean cuts down to approx. 3"- 4" above ground.After using a chain for sometime on other clean cuts and it's started to lose it's edge,I go back and finish the ground cuts usually starting on the end of the log.It's a chain I'am going to sharpen anyway,just trying to get a little more use out of it and save some back pain rolling heavy wood.
Newfie
Addicted to ArboristSite
Junker,
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well for one, use plastic wedges. I have never found a need to wedge until the log is big enought that the bar/chain is in the cut far enought to be well clear of the wedge anyhow.
Yes, I also look for a spot clear of the ground to section the log from the bottom but all to often one isn't available. I cut 5-6 cord a year and usually get through the season without sharping (altho I admit I should sharpen more often).
Harry K
Yes, I also look for a spot clear of the ground to section the log from the bottom but all to often one isn't available. I cut 5-6 cord a year and usually get through the season without sharping (altho I admit I should sharpen more often).
Harry K
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Your probably right!!!
Plunging isn't something I do all the time. I started using it one time when I realized my saw ate my last wedge...didn't have any more.
ricksvar
ArboristSite Operative
If at all possible,I suggest you find someone in your area to show you what were talking about.If necessary,volunteer to help a person you know that cuts firewood or has experience using a chainsaw.
A little first hand instruction in the field,with a good teacher,will get you off to a safe start and answer many of your questions.
A little first hand instruction in the field,with a good teacher,will get you off to a safe start and answer many of your questions.
StIhL MaGnUm
Addicted to ArboristSite
If you have the time and money I would suggest attending the Game of Logging training if at all possible or even Arbormasters Precision felling course you will learn alot from any of these guy's that have been logging etc. for a number of years hands on training is the best thing....
Later Rob..
Later Rob..
treeclimber165
Member A.K.A Skwerl
WOW! I rarely use my saws on the ground, since I'm a climber. But I still give them a light tickle every 2-3 tanks of gas (even more often on hardwoods like Live Oak). I couldn't IMAGINE using a saw for weeks or months without sharpening!
I guess some don't care about how their equipment works. Like buying a Ferrari and taking it to Wal-Mart for the cheapo tires at 4 for $99. You could have the best saw in the world, but if you run it cutting firewood for a day and don't sharpen the chain you might as well be using a Homelite or something from Sears.
i cut into the compression side first, so that the tensioned side holds the cut open; then coming from the tensioned side (fibre stretching apart, wanting to close on the compression side as tensioned/backcut side is released) sometimes out of line, but close enough for the fibre to fracture across to the other cut from the opposite side, leaving a 'Z' break line across the spar. This tends to disperse some of the force through the connecting crack between the 2 cuts.
Sometimes, i place a notch in the compression side, then cut through the tensioned (pulling apart) wood to the apex of my notch on the opposing compression side, to release tension as the cut walks it to a point of failure or folding, like dropping a tree. The stronger the hinge needed, the wider the hinge; the more relief movement needed to relieve the tension, the wider the facing notch cut. For the openness of the hinge mechanically chooses when the the hinge must sieze or shear. If the compressed wood is on top, placing a log under neath the soon to be 2 pieces, allows a smaller face opening; in that the log now doesn't have to sit down as far to releive tension. i think that bucking can be a good time for practicing and observing how hinging flows.
i think that there are times to plunge cut, some times just to help stay outta the dirt, others to cut away from the working hinge (safer); rather than towards. But it can be dangerous and hard on the nose bearings. Good way to line up cuts though!
We use plastic hinges, longer ones can build more helping force usually, though we use mostly the smaller, cheaper ones.
i usually work on the arms standing up first, but who's movement won't rock the tree, in this way removing as much force as possible, without disturbing the supporting legs; also getting rid of the higher risk overhead stuff first. i also notch these with all my skills and put them down slowly in a safe direction amongst the rubble. Then i come back through looking for any more easy, non stabilizing weight to ditch and things that could slap me if something rolled. Then cut notches in the compressed side of supporting legs and walk a backcut till they start to goto folding, as i step back; walking tension out slowly from the legs one at a time, using the buffered motion from a slow folding hinge to safely time delay fuse slow folding dissipation of force with me out of the way. Sometimes, tieing a notched and back cut supporting leg to the truck to pull it, causing the leg to fail with me out of the way when the log falls, rolls etc. If the face cut is towards the truck you pull the leg from the opposite end to close the notch. If the notch faces away, i tie right under the notch, so that the face can close.
Sometimes, i place a notch in the compression side, then cut through the tensioned (pulling apart) wood to the apex of my notch on the opposing compression side, to release tension as the cut walks it to a point of failure or folding, like dropping a tree. The stronger the hinge needed, the wider the hinge; the more relief movement needed to relieve the tension, the wider the facing notch cut. For the openness of the hinge mechanically chooses when the the hinge must sieze or shear. If the compressed wood is on top, placing a log under neath the soon to be 2 pieces, allows a smaller face opening; in that the log now doesn't have to sit down as far to releive tension. i think that bucking can be a good time for practicing and observing how hinging flows.
i think that there are times to plunge cut, some times just to help stay outta the dirt, others to cut away from the working hinge (safer); rather than towards. But it can be dangerous and hard on the nose bearings. Good way to line up cuts though!
We use plastic hinges, longer ones can build more helping force usually, though we use mostly the smaller, cheaper ones.
i usually work on the arms standing up first, but who's movement won't rock the tree, in this way removing as much force as possible, without disturbing the supporting legs; also getting rid of the higher risk overhead stuff first. i also notch these with all my skills and put them down slowly in a safe direction amongst the rubble. Then i come back through looking for any more easy, non stabilizing weight to ditch and things that could slap me if something rolled. Then cut notches in the compressed side of supporting legs and walk a backcut till they start to goto folding, as i step back; walking tension out slowly from the legs one at a time, using the buffered motion from a slow folding hinge to safely time delay fuse slow folding dissipation of force with me out of the way. Sometimes, tieing a notched and back cut supporting leg to the truck to pull it, causing the leg to fail with me out of the way when the log falls, rolls etc. If the face cut is towards the truck you pull the leg from the opposite end to close the notch. If the notch faces away, i tie right under the notch, so that the face can close.
StIhL MaGnUm
Addicted to ArboristSite
Excellent info Spyder I agree with cutting out a wedge when bucking tensioned wood I find myself doing this alot...
Later Rob.
Later Rob.
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi Treespyder, I have to admit that I need to read your posts more than once to understand what you are saying, lol, but you did include alot of good info that most others neglected. Russ
I agree, Spidey has valid points there. A lot of times, because I'm lazy, I make a second cut on the compression side and allow the kerfs to relieve some of the compression...and a lot of times that is all that is needed to relieve the stress. A notch would probably work better with better control.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Bucking firewood is really quite easy if done correctly. Tree spyder mentioned the forces that are exerted on a tree length or random length piece of fuelwood, being top bind, bottom bind, side bind and twist.
To get around these forces, simply buck the body wood along it's full length only 2/3 deep, then with a 3 ft. limb left convieniently attached, roll the partially bucked stem over and cut your blocks out by putting your saw in the established kerfs and sawing your way up and out. If you are unable to roll the log due to size or weight, simply buck it into subsections and roll them with a cant hook before completing the cuts.
Then, like a good lil woodtick, stand ALL the blocks, end up on a level surface, and smash em' to pieces with a 6# maul.
Any other method is simply just !@#$&! around, unless you are after the worst type of firewood that requires a log splitter.
Log splitters are time consuming unless coupled with a conveyer, but then again I am pontifying.
We are out there for a good time, not a long time, So have fun, be safe and who gives a ???? how you cut your firewood!
Gypo
To get around these forces, simply buck the body wood along it's full length only 2/3 deep, then with a 3 ft. limb left convieniently attached, roll the partially bucked stem over and cut your blocks out by putting your saw in the established kerfs and sawing your way up and out. If you are unable to roll the log due to size or weight, simply buck it into subsections and roll them with a cant hook before completing the cuts.
Then, like a good lil woodtick, stand ALL the blocks, end up on a level surface, and smash em' to pieces with a 6# maul.
Any other method is simply just !@#$&! around, unless you are after the worst type of firewood that requires a log splitter.
Log splitters are time consuming unless coupled with a conveyer, but then again I am pontifying.
We are out there for a good time, not a long time, So have fun, be safe and who gives a ???? how you cut your firewood!
Gypo
compression & tension
To all that have mentioned compression and tension and, anyone else who knows the answer, how is compression & tensioned to be recognized, by looking at the tree, either standing or when it's on the ground?
To all that have mentioned compression and tension and, anyone else who knows the answer, how is compression & tensioned to be recognized, by looking at the tree, either standing or when it's on the ground?
Go to http://www.forestapps.com/tips/tips.htm
Look around there a while.
Honestly, you sound like a candidate for a chainsaw safety course with hands on instruction.
Look around there a while.
Honestly, you sound like a candidate for a chainsaw safety course with hands on instruction.
