Stihl MS194T vs Echo

[Lightning Performance]

Cool tread that discusses the saws and the climber as a cohesive unit not this vs that.
I'm almost sure it won't last but while the gittin is good...
TLDR!

I'm build and targeting "in the tree" saw builds being I'm also a retiring climber who had health issues back in his forties so now all the tools are being pressed for more power in my stable and others. Porting heads isn't anything new here. 200T ported is still my favorite with a fourteen picco 1.2 chisel loop wearing Total or Stihl bars.

My bought used 192Ts were used little, 193s all got sold off plus most were sold off by now and all my 201Ts were sold off, no thanks. Never bought myself a 194. The Echo 2511T running picco or picco NK is the rage according to many and Scotties heavily modded and ported by XS 2511T is running a picco sixteen NK Stihl setup and does quite well on the tiny chain. I've ran it and so so many others. Dan's ported 200Ts and my last 200Ts going out are some mean eaters we really all enjoy. If your talking 200Ts Wolf belongs here. The other Echo as mention here by the OP needs a jug update if possible or a custom swapped on cylinder. I've never been inside the 2511T but need to go there this fall or winter. Only modded a few for others but no port work was requested. Have no love for the heavy Huskies or lower RPM Echos. Husky 40cc tops are turds imho. Too many people miss the obvious about what is holding back a limbing saw it seems. It's not that hard to find the one or two major choke points to let it breathe better and then you can put a real chisel chain on it with some bite. Even semi chisel setup correctly does a fine job in wet wood or limbs.

It seems to me as we age, get broken, ect, ect and don't do full time work we demand more from these tiny tools to move faster sometimes or support a faster young buck who wants one. I'm looking for the best all around I can get from a 200T, the 2511T later this year and three 192Ts sitting here doing nothing. The other saws here all rear handle for climbing in my stable that do get used often for chunking down dead hardwoods or regular removals. They don't get used on the ground or for storm damage cleanup. Other tools here are better suited for that like a 435, 361, 362 or a few Dolkitas in the middle and the old PP bow. Was using a 260 but it just lacks in too many ways including the small fuel tank it seems on anything but a stock cylinder with a muffler mod and the tiny clutch with a stingy oil pump. Fuel economy is important to climbers but not like that.

The 194T with a serious muffler mod and timing advance seems to do very well although they are not my thing I've done the mods on new ones for others. Ported it seems would offer a bit more but how much IDK. Consider it's oil pump if your planning on a sixteen or eighteen bar. I run a fourteen on any limbing saw most times unless I'm chunking down pine with a longer bar. I have no love for the 150T but others praise them for trimming jobs. Start a build thread here we can follow as you do the mods on your next T build.

The three main rear handle saws on my chopping block for up the tree service are an 034, a custom 034S and a 360P. Haven't dug into a 400, yet. Also need a few new tools, again, to move forward on them. I'm not partial to spring AV limbing saws, it's the feel or the mush, that turns me off making accurate cuts sideways. This batch will be heavily modified outside and inside for longer runs, better intake systems, undated filters and ported with machine work. Many parts from other saws will find their way onto these as needed. Some are decomp buttons, some not and one button was added to a cylinder last week so high compression can be tested in an easy to start limbing/chunking saw for larger weed control. Not big on the 66 up a tree.


Told ya
Tldr

 

[Stihl User]

Cool tread that discusses the saws and the climber as a cohesive unit not this vs that.
I'm almost sure it won't last but while the gittin is good...
TLDR!

I'm build and targeting "in the tree" saw builds being I'm also a retiring climber who had health issues back in his forties so now all the tools are being pressed for more power in my stable and others. Porting heads isn't anything new here. 200T ported is still my favorite with a fourteen picco 1.2 chisel loop wearing Total or Stihl bars.

My bought used 192Ts were used little, 193s all got sold off plus most were sold off by now and all my 201Ts were sold off, no thanks. Never bought myself a 194. The Echo 2511T running picco or picco NK is the rage according to many and Scotties heavily modded and ported by XS 2511T is running a picco sixteen NK Stihl setup and does quite well on the tiny chain. I've ran it and so so many others. Dan's ported 200Ts and my last 200Ts going out are some mean eaters we really all enjoy. If your talking 200Ts Wolf belongs here. The other Echo as mention here by the OP needs a jug update if possible or a custom swapped on cylinder. I've never been inside the 2511T but need to go there this fall or winter. Only modded a few for others but no port work was requested. Have no love for the heavy Huskies or lower RPM Echos. Husky 40cc tops are turds imho. Too many people miss the obvious about what is holding back a limbing saw it seems. It's not that hard to find the one or two major choke points to let it breathe better and then you can put a real chisel chain on it with some bite. Even semi chisel setup correctly does a fine job in wet wood or limbs.

It seems to me as we age, get broken, ect, ect and don't do full time work we demand more from these tiny tools to move faster sometimes or support a faster young buck who wants one. I'm looking for the best all around I can get from a 200T, the 2511T later this year and three 192Ts sitting here doing nothing. The other saws here all rear handle for climbing in my stable that do get used often for chunking down dead hardwoods or regular removals. They don't get used on the ground or for storm damage cleanup. Other tools here are better suited for that like a 435, 361, 362 or a few Dolkitas in the middle and the old PP bow. Was using a 260 but it just lacks in too many ways including the small fuel tank it seems on anything but a stock cylinder with a muffler mod and the tiny clutch with a stingy oil pump. Fuel economy is important to climbers but not like that.

The 194T with a serious muffler mod and timing advance seems to do very well although they are not my thing I've done the mods on new ones for others. Ported it seems would offer a bit more but how much IDK. Consider it's oil pump if your planning on a sixteen or eighteen bar. I run a fourteen on any limbing saw most times unless I'm chunking down pine with a longer bar. I have no love for the 150T but others praise them for trimming jobs. Start a build thread here we can follow as you do the mods on your next T build.

The three main rear handle saws on my chopping block for up the tree service are an 034, a custom 034S and a 360P. Haven't dug into a 400, yet. Also need a few new tools, again, to move forward on them. I'm not partial to spring AV limbing saws, it's the feel or the mush, that turns me off making accurate cuts sideways. This batch will be heavily modified outside and inside for longer runs, better intake systems, undated filters and ported with machine work. Many parts from other saws will find their way onto these as needed. Some are decomp buttons, some not and one button was added to a cylinder last week so high compression can be tested in an easy to start limbing/chunking saw for larger weed control. Not big on the 66 up a tree.


Told ya
Tldr

The 'ultimate' lightweight topper saw would be taking the echo cs-271t cylinder and fitting it on a 2511t.
i am not a macinist but i believe it can be done = let me know your thoughts.
ALSO
the cs-271t would be awesome with a 30cc cylinder as well.
AND
let's not stop there but machine fit the 201t cylinder on the 194t
ALSO
the ms150t needs 30cc and has room for it

If i owned a machine shop i would absolutely produce these cylinder upgrades

 

[Stihl User]

Cool tread that discusses the saws and the climber as a cohesive unit not this vs that.
I'm almost sure it won't last but while the gittin is good...
TLDR!

I'm build and targeting "in the tree" saw builds being I'm also a retiring climber who had health issues back in his forties so now all the tools are being pressed for more power in my stable and others. Porting heads isn't anything new here. 200T ported is still my favorite with a fourteen picco 1.2 chisel loop wearing Total or Stihl bars.

My bought used 192Ts were used little, 193s all got sold off plus most were sold off by now and all my 201Ts were sold off, no thanks. Never bought myself a 194. The Echo 2511T running picco or picco NK is the rage according to many and Scotties heavily modded and ported by XS 2511T is running a picco sixteen NK Stihl setup and does quite well on the tiny chain. I've ran it and so so many others. Dan's ported 200Ts and my last 200Ts going out are some mean eaters we really all enjoy. If your talking 200Ts Wolf belongs here. The other Echo as mention here by the OP needs a jug update if possible or a custom swapped on cylinder. I've never been inside the 2511T but need to go there this fall or winter. Only modded a few for others but no port work was requested. Have no love for the heavy Huskies or lower RPM Echos. Husky 40cc tops are turds imho. Too many people miss the obvious about what is holding back a limbing saw it seems. It's not that hard to find the one or two major choke points to let it breathe better and then you can put a real chisel chain on it with some bite. Even semi chisel setup correctly does a fine job in wet wood or limbs.

It seems to me as we age, get broken, ect, ect and don't do full time work we demand more from these tiny tools to move faster sometimes or support a faster young buck who wants one. I'm looking for the best all around I can get from a 200T, the 2511T later this year and three 192Ts sitting here doing nothing. The other saws here all rear handle for climbing in my stable that do get used often for chunking down dead hardwoods or regular removals. They don't get used on the ground or for storm damage cleanup. Other tools here are better suited for that like a 435, 361, 362 or a few Dolkitas in the middle and the old PP bow. Was using a 260 but it just lacks in too many ways including the small fuel tank it seems on anything but a stock cylinder with a muffler mod and the tiny clutch with a stingy oil pump. Fuel economy is important to climbers but not like that.

The 194T with a serious muffler mod and timing advance seems to do very well although they are not my thing I've done the mods on new ones for others. Ported it seems would offer a bit more but how much IDK. Consider it's oil pump if your planning on a sixteen or eighteen bar. I run a fourteen on any limbing saw most times unless I'm chunking down pine with a longer bar. I have no love for the 150T but others praise them for trimming jobs. Start a build thread here we can follow as you do the mods on your next T build.

The three main rear handle saws on my chopping block for up the tree service are an 034, a custom 034S and a 360P. Haven't dug into a 400, yet. Also need a few new tools, again, to move forward on them. I'm not partial to spring AV limbing saws, it's the feel or the mush, that turns me off making accurate cuts sideways. This batch will be heavily modified outside and inside for longer runs, better intake systems, undated filters and ported with machine work. Many parts from other saws will find their way onto these as needed. Some are decomp buttons, some not and one button was added to a cylinder last week so high compression can be tested in an easy to start limbing/chunking saw for larger weed control. Not big on the 66 up a tree.


Told ya
Tldr

i use the 12" on the 2511 and a 14 on my 201 as i mostly do hardwoods
Hate pine and maybe do one or two a year.

Have you ever tried a cs-361p with muf mod and slight timing advance?
Easily handles the 18" bar i have on it.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Never tried the 361P. It seems about equal to a 435 @41cc. Most of my rear handles for climbing will remain over 55cc. Already decided 35 to 50cc are too slow for myself in any form except a moddified 034. Find me something that can match it for broad band power, only my 036 does. Both can pull a two foot bar or more if asked and oil it all day everyday as is. Of course most times a 20" will work but not always. Your not putting a 28 or 32 on a 261 unless you like broken springs and burnt bar rails. Now the 034 filter system is lacking but it still out ran a stock 360P every time in the cut in my hand. Not sure much else can complete with stiff rubber AV and fall in this weight class besides an 026.

The cylinder swaps you speak of entail having both saws or the parts to swap on hand to see how things fall into place. Most of the modifications I'm doing involves little to no machine work beyond your standard stuff to lower a blind cylinder.

Most of the high rpm T models are preferred over lower rpm types for pure speed in the cut. The bore size, stroke length, piston or reciprocating weight, the con rod length and the transfer port volume determine most of what is going on inside these tiny air cooled motors. Doing a port job to some types with tiny carbs is genuinely a waste of time. Your dealing with a pump or vacuum pump here that can't get in what it can't get out. The inverse is also true. These things don't change unless we change them. There in lies the big hurdle to get from point A to B making it all fit without hours and days of work involved. Everything needs to be within the right combination or your still just wasting time swapping parts or doing performance enhancements. I didn't invent math just using it while I'm building. Sometime all that still won't fix a built in limit like mechanical limits or sizes. Skirt width, limited piston speeds and port volume are three that come to mind. Air filters are a very limiting factor in these packages along with baffles and noise reducing enhancements. Get through all that before you decide to add more weight and stress. 200T doesn't "need" a big bore but it does need a few other things changed besides bigger ports and a muffler mod. I don't believe a 2511T would gain much from a bigger bore based on the other parts surrounding it. Opinions are like having a nice day

 

[Stihl User]

Never tried the 361P. It seems about equal to a 435 @41cc. Most of my rear handles for climbing will remain over 55cc. Already decided 35 to 50cc are too slow for myself in any form except a moddified 034. Find me something that can match it for broad band power, only my 036 does. Both can pull a two foot bar or more if asked and oil it all day everyday as is. Of course most times a 20" will work but not always. Your not putting a 28 or 32 on a 261 unless you like broken springs and burnt bar rails. Now the 034 filter system is lacking but it still out ran a stock 360P every time in the cut in my hand. Not sure much else can complete with stiff rubber AV and fall in this weight class besides an 026.

The cylinder swaps you speak of entail having both saws or the parts to swap on hand to see how things fall into place. Most of the modifications I'm doing involves little to no machine work beyond your standard stuff to lower a blind cylinder.

Most of the high rpm T models are preferred over lower rpm types for pure speed in the cut. The bore size, stroke length, piston or reciprocating weight, the con rod length and the transfer port volume determine most of what is going on inside these tiny air cooled motors. Doing a port job to some types with tiny carbs is genuinely a waste of time. Your dealing with a pump or vacuum pump here that can't get in what it can't get out. The inverse is also true. These things don't change unless we change them. There in lies the big hurdle to get from point A to B making it all fit without hours and days of work involved. Everything needs to be within the right combination or your still just wasting time swapping parts or doing performance enhancements. I didn't invent math just using it while I'm building. Sometime all that still won't fix a built in limit like mechanical limits or sizes. Skirt width, limited piston speeds and port volume are three that come to mind. Air filters are a very limiting factor in these packages along with baffles and noise reducing enhancements. Get through all that before you decide to add more weight and stress. 200T doesn't "need" a big bore but it does need a few other things changed besides bigger ports and a muffler mod. I don't believe a 2511T would gain much from a bigger bore based on the other parts surrounding it. Opinions are like having a nice day

OK, ordered the non-cat muff for the 2511 and will update you when i test my muff mod vs non-cat.

I have a 2511t and a 271T and the 271 has more power/torque.
Had Echo made the 271t a 30cc saw every climber would be using one = only 6.5lbs.
AGREE = 200t is fine - but the 201 could use a bump especially since it is a heavier saw.

This winter i will remove cylinders on the 2511t/271t and compare to see if i can make it work.

The smaller the saw = the more beneficial each increase of cc is given to it.

What are the rpm's on your 2511t?

cs-361p is a inexpensive ($375) powerful lightweight saw that can handle a 18 with muff mod.
It's for climbers(like myself) that want to go as light as possible while maximizing bar length in the tree.

Buy one and test it out - that's what we do.

 

[Lightning Performance]

OK, ordered the non-cat muff for the 2511 and will update you when i test my muff mod vs non-cat.

I have a 2511t and a 271T and the 271 has more power/torque.
Had Echo made the 271t a 30cc saw every climber would be using one = only 6.5lbs.
AGREE = 200t is fine - but the 201 could use a bump especially since it is a heavier saw.

This winter i will remove cylinders on the 2511t/271t and compare to see if i can make it work.

The smaller the saw = the more beneficial each increase of cc is given to it.

What are the rpm's on your 2511t?

cs-361p is a inexpensive ($375) powerful lightweight saw that can handle a 18 with muff mod.
It's for climbers(like myself) that want to go as light as possible while maximizing bar length in the tree.

Buy one and test it out - that's what we do.

Just remember the case volume changes some most times with a bigger bore.

2511 hum... rpms, idk. Most guys do several other mods and port them.
If you mean tuned dry like not in the wood?... most saws hit the rev limiter before you need to worry about tuning for higher rpms. Besides that the rpms in the wood is all that really matters.

Agreed on the 201T bump.

"The smaller the saw = the more beneficial each increase of cc is given to it."
But... I'd rather have a smaller more efficient bore. Less is more climbing.
Again you say a 201T needs a bump. It sure does but the carb and air intake is the place to start off if you already modified the muffler some.
Prove me wrong.

435 comes stock with a 16" 66dl 325 nk 050 bar and they sell 18" or 20" mounts. This power head is identical to the 440 inside. The 440 has a bit bigger oil pump, I'm told, so with a dog mount it seems like a better pic than a plastic dog with no mount holes. Don't like the AV system, mush!
That saw sees little tree time now with an 18" 325 Sugi LW 034. It's getting a jug swap soon to a very nice used ported Stihl 034 with a popup. Two more KS jugs are sitting with that one already machined down. It's fine now as is but changing it to a 360P air filter system. Machine work with port work makes it ready to pull any bar up to 28" with ease. Also added a decomp button for easy starts. This doesn't mean the bigger bore 48mm 360 isn't getting used, it will, for a custom saw with better offerings put on it. Have one more jug to swap on there to an 034S ported. That should make a spicy climbing beast. This other thing I built was good but still don't like the AV for climbing just ground work. My 361 and 362 are just too mushy for my tastes in trees.

Have a pair of 440 or 4400 Echo saws that would make nice climbers for a rear handle as is. I used them very little. They came all greasy and still are. Parked for seven or eight years now doing nothing sitting with a pair of 530 Echos and a 520 parts saw doing nothing. Two more full shelves under them mostly top handles and few 009's and one 011L.

 

[magreeable]

I bought a 194T today. I just wanted to try one.

 

[snobdds]

I bought my dad a 151T and it's a sweet little saw. With that 1/4 chain, it can get through some wood.

I'm thinking of getting another one just to put on the shelve for a later date and before they turn it into a computer saw.

 

[Stihl User]

I bought a 194T today. I just wanted to try one.

Please let me know how it performed - thanks

 

[magreeable]

Please let me know how it performed - thanks

It's OK. I don't think I'd buy another one.

 

[ZinTrees]

been using my 194 for around a year, low power, even lower RPM, cant lean on it
however it does start easy, and can get much more power out of my by pulling the deflector (part that holds the spark screen in place) off
take clutch cover off, remove T27 on the muffler that holds the little rectangle flap (that points exhaust gasses downward) take that rectangle and spark screen off, opens it way up
may melt side cover but im not experiencing that, been like that a few months
mainly we run the t540Ixp, and a 200t
I would but a 194 again without hesitation, IF i couldnt afford a 201, or another 200
want to try the 151 and 2511t