Stihl's future saw technology

[sawfan]

Only time will tell

OK everyone calm down. We have all seen this kind of thing happen in the past. Cars went through this stage in the late 70's,early 80's some of the worst cars were made back then.(i think that is what spacemule was trying to say) Now "most" cars are cleaner burning, lighter weight powerhouses with a cushy ride. This kind of thing also happend with the "clean air act of 1990"(I am body shop guy by trade) You HAD to use new HVLP spray guns witch sucked when they first came out, and the old faithful lacquer auto paint went by way of the dodo bird. What I am trying to get at is 10 years later(yes it may take that long) The new technology, which was pushed by the epa and their "stupid clean air act" has produced urethane paint systems and HVLP spray guns leaps and bounds ahead of what we used to use. I belive chainsaws will follow suit given the proper time. But that is just my opinion which isn't always a good one.
Wayne S

 

[Lawn Masters]

we must simply wait, stock and hoard older but high quality models, and just wait and see what hte future has in store for saws.

it may just be a good high performance model that cuts like a raped ape and has the weight of a feather so to speak, or it may have the power of a toy, and the weight of a gorilla. who knows just yet. I'm hoping its high power low weight. if we're lucky, the saws will be something that can be modified to get obscene power gains from.

 

[pallis]

"If you're using hyperbole, then your post has no basis for legitimate consideration in this situation."


What situation would that be? The numbers the EPA uses to calculate the dangers of carbon emissions from chainsaws? Define legitimate.

"...worth about as much as a monkey in a white room with a box full of crayons."

What kind of monkey, and how big is the box of crayons?

 

[Lakeside53]

Justin,
are you talking about 4-stroke engines? This has been something that 2006 EPA and 2004 CARB requirements have made an issue with outboard motors, which is why you see more and more 4-strokes and DI 2 strokes there. I think you don't see them in chainsaws because they will be pretty dang heavy will they not? 4-stroke means oil sump...oil filter.... a couple quarts of oil, valves..... apparently teh radical environmentalists want to kill everything I like, diesels, boat motors, and now chainsaws??

No... he's talking about 4-mix, which is 4-stroke, but with NO oil sumps etc. This is a Stihl only engine that has valves, but runs on standard 50:1 mix - gets around the problems of traditional 4-strokes. They work great, have compressions of about 75-90psi (low engine stress), great low end torque, and are quieter. The additional weight is a just a few ounces. I was skeptical at first, but having torn a couple down after two + years of landscaper continuous use, they are in great shape. I expect this technology to make its way to saws.

 

[pinus]

No... he's talking about 4-mix, which is 4-stroke, but with NO oil sumps etc. This is a Stihl only engine that has valves, but runs on standard 50:1 mix - gets around the problems of traditional 4-strokes. They work great, have compressions of about 75-90psi (low engine stress), great low end torque, and are quieter. The additional weight is a just a few ounces. I was skeptical at first, but having torn a couple down after two + years of landscaper continuous use, they are in great shape. I expect this technology to make its way to saws.

There can be several reasons for this, like the valves cant work well under any position (chainsaw should work "legs up" too). Probably the jug of 4mix is guite long due the valve system, not fitting into saw body?
Despite the fact that for Stihl, Husqvarna, etc., chainsaws now are the flagships, chainsaws itselfs is the decreasing sector of market, IMO.
Why?
The harvesters are doing most from "industrial" logging here, and the fraction of it in the private sector is increasing rapidly too. The number of saw-mans is going down, and quickly. Saws are going to the direction of consumer-occasional user.
That is more important, IMO, to fill the brushcutter sector with the new design and be sucessfull here, than shoot out new designs in chainsaw sector

 

[Chris J.]

My b-i-l in Scotland, who is in the petro-chemical biz, told me that he read a study that reported that the use of 2 cycle string trimmers in the US was by large the main source for 2 cycle emissions. I have no idea if that is true. I'm glad that I have a stash of what I consider to be quality saws.

 

[Lakeside53]

There can be several reasons for this, like the valves cant work well under any position (chainsaw should work "legs up" too). Probably the jug of 4mix is guite long due the valve system, not fitting into saw body?
Despite the fact that for Stihl, Husqvarna, etc., chainsaws now are the flagships, chainsaws itselfs is the decreasing sector of market, IMO.
Why?
The harvesters are doing most from "industrial" logging here, and the fraction of it in the private sector is increasing rapidly too. The number of saw-mans is going down, and quickly. Saws are going to the direction of consumer-occasional user.
That is more important, IMO, to fill the brushcutter sector with the new design and be sucessfull here, than shoot out new designs in chainsaw sector

The 4-mix engines work fine upside down, and in any position... As part of the repair test, I turn them all diretions at idle and throttle to make sure there are no problems.

 

[stihltech]

mix

The 4mix is all position, that is why it runs mixed fuel.

I like the TS700 setup. I think this is what you will see down the road. Also, and this is only my opinion, I think top speed will start to come down slightly, but with better torque in a wider powerband.

The first trimmers ran very fast, but did wear cranks and bearings eventually. The speed of the later trimmers was governed, but the power was more usable.

No 4mix in saws, the TS700 technology in some form will be next.

 

[HiOctane]

Honda got 4 stroke trimmers and others things with an engine that can run upside down all day long,even if its a 4 stroke.Awesome engine,simple,the only problem the biggest being 31 cc.I try one trimmer with a blade on it to clear wood in a plantation for few days,works great but you have to keep it wide open all day long because of the engine size,power is a bit low.

 

[J_Ashley]

That Honda trimmer is a turd. We sell Honda trimmers right along side Stihls at work, as we'll sell one Honda for every hundred or more Stihl's. There's something to be said in those numbers...

I was talking with my manager about using the Honda's upside down and such, and just as he turnes it upside down, 'drip-drip-drip'. The Honda trimmers are heavier, lower power, require more maintenance, and are more complex than the Stihl's.

Lakeside, I havn't had a chance to see the new TS700 up close. Whats different about it other than the X2 Air filtration?

Justin

 

[bottlefed89]

I have to say I am unimpressed with the 4mix in the fs110r string trimmer I got earlier this year. My trimming technique may have something to do with it. In addition to tree work I own a lawncare company. I have been mowing with my guys a day or 2 a week, and ocassionally I have to weedeat, also I weedeat around 1200+ fenceposts at my home once or twice a month, anyway I've spent a bit of time running the regular 2 strokes(we have 3 fs250r's), as well as the new 4mix. The problem for me with the 4mix is that the pwoer is too off and on. you either trim and it doesn't spin fast enough to do anything, or you let er rip and it trims, digs, and whatever else it wants to do. AGAIN, maybe my techniques, or just that I'm used to the 2strokes.

What's special about the ts700??

I'm with others in that this may suck for a while, but may eventually do us some good.

 

[pbtree]

And one other thing... WHY AREN'T WE SEEING ANY STIHL 4-MIX POWERED CHAIN SAWS???

Justin

4-mix?

 

[pinus]

My b-i-l in Scotland, who is in the petro-chemical biz, told me that he read a study that reported that the use of 2 cycle string trimmers in the US was by large the main source for 2 cycle emissions. I have no idea if that is true. I'm glad that I have a stash of what I consider to be quality saws.

This is very probable. The most common sound in summer time is the whining of trimmers

 

[J_Ashley]

Bottle fed, it sounds like you're technique may need some help. I'm the main weed-eating operator for my close friend's lawn service. Lets see if I can offer any pointers.

-Adjust the handles of that trimmer so that it feels balanced and comfortable in your hands. This will help you hold the trimmer (and trimmer head, thus string) level and steady. If you notice it wanting to dig, try rotating the trimmer just a few degrees. Does this make it better or worse?

-Try not to bend over while trimming. Not only is this hard on your back, but it makes you unsteady. Instead, straighten your back and bend your knees. You'll notice that you have much greater controll of your body (and therefore the trimmer) walking like this. It gets even more practical as you start to move faster.

-Loosen that grip just a hair. You don't want to put a death grip on that thing.Doing so won't allow the trimmer to bounce when it hits the ground, and it'll leave your hands tingling from vibration when you get done. Firmly grab the handles but makes sure that you're grip allows the trimmer to move up and down easily. This will let it bounce off the ground some as tries to dig in.

-Always walk so that the trimmer is cutting on the left side of the head. This way, the string is spinning into oncoming grass, and it wants to resist moving. This is much smoother than trying to cut on the right side of the head. Cutting on the right side of the head, the trimmer will try to take off and run in that direction. The result is poor control and poor cut quality. Always cut on the left of the trimmer head.

-If you notice you're having trouble controlling the head, and if it's digging in while walking, try walking sideways or even backwards. This is very helpful on long fencerows too. By walking sdeways or even backwards, you're not pushing the trimmer head, you're pulling it which makes it easier to controll. You'll notice it won't want to dig in much sideways or even backwards.

I've been doing a lot of string trimming in the past few summers, and these are thing I notice that help me out. Not only will they make things more comfortable for you, but they'll improve your speed too. I was weedeating some fence-row the other day, and actually passed up a lady on her riding mower on the other side mowing. And it looked good too

Justin

 

[bottlefed89]

Thanks for the tips, don't really have a problem with anything but the 4mixes, I do a lt of weedeating too, and can smoke anyone that works for me, just not on the 4mix.

 

[stihltech]

4 mix

I am really surprised that you have trouble, most customers love the extra torque and fuel economy,

 

[bwalker]

I wo0uldnt be supprised if this Stihl rep was full of chit. Three way catalysts on a two stroke would be almost unheard of and probaly not even neccesarry.
I think Stihltech is right in that any new saws will be like the TS700 concrete saw.
Redmax has a simular, but better sytem that meets emmissions standards in place now and all proposed for the next 10 years or so.

 

[Luke]

Dolmar 4 stroke

I was told by a dealer that Dolmar has a proto 4 stroke chainsaw that runs 12,500 rpm. Don't know anything else though.

 

[bottlefed89]

What is special about the ts700??

 

[bwalker]

What is special about the ts700??

It uses a "stratcharged" type port arrangment that provides for low emmissions, low fuel consumption and little to no visable smoke.
Do a search for Redmax Stratocharge and it will give you a udea of how the sytem works.