The 50:1 2 Cycle Oil Myth ? "epa"

[Fish]

Actually. 50:1 is way too lean, 49.75:1 is the proper amount, they
just didn't want to throw complicated math at you guys.

50.25:1, if you are canadian.

1:50 if you are below the equator, and the starter is on the other side.

Never did believe that drain thing though, that is an epa conspiracy.........

 

[Lakeside53]

You can likely get away with a lot richer mixes if you use synthetic - much much better "cleansing" properties. I can't remember the exact numbers, but Ultra is 20% better at lubrication than Stihl dino, but 280% better at cleaning. Numbers subject to me finding my old data... but theya re close.


But.. do you really need it (other than milling - continous power operation in a device not designed for that duty cycle)?

 

[PES+]

More oil can cause crank bearing problems

If the extra oil gets caught in a dead flow area (like between the bearing shield and the seal) it can cook into coke and tear out the bearing cage and the rest is tech service update history.

It can also happen with non shielded bearings in certain designs given enough oil.

Extra oil can help the connecting rod bearings and piston lubrication to a point but it can also raise @#$% with the main bearings.

 

[Brushwacker]

If the extra oil gets caught in a dead flow area (like between the bearing shield and the seal) it can cook into coke and tear out the bearing cage and the rest is tech service update history.

It can also happen with non shielded bearings in certain designs given enough oil.

Extra oil can help the connecting rod bearings and piston lubrication to a point but it can also raise @#$% with the main bearings.

I am sure it could if the oil seperated from the gas or mixing it extremely rich such as 10 to 1 + or you do not keep your saw properly tune where it will burn the mix effeciently.
In 35 years and many thousnds of hour s of running 2 cycle engines I had 1 old well used snowmobile break a ring from a piece of carbon probably mostly built up from the previous owner as I didn't have it long. I run 16 or 20 to 1 mostly up to about 1990 ,then mostly 25 to 1. My boat I use 50 to 1. I have many thousands of hours on saws and at 25 to 1, 0 problems from oil. It only seems to help my saws now that I know how to keep them tuned. I do remember cleaning my exhaust ports in my very early days but then I run my saws richer fuel to air and oil to gas. Working for other people running 50 to 1 I haven't seen where they were doing way better then me in any area of performance, some advantages,mostly what I consider small to me.
Oil reduces friction which reduces heat and reduces resistance,increases compression and I seem to get more use out of my saws then other saw users running less oil. My saws run very clean (likely not the very cleanest) at 25 to1 but hey it works better then anything I have wittnessed in the past when it comes to power and reliability.
Somebody that doesn't keep their tuning up and lets their saws get a rich fuel to air mix may be better off at 50 to 1. If you get an lean fuel to air you will likely have serious problems no matter what ratio.

 

[Fish]

Here is an old thread that has already covered this topic, read it.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=6104&page=3&highlight=dagger

 

[fastmopar1k]

I use AMSOIL SABRE 100:1- Mix 80:1 go to amsoil website and read the guarantee. :angry2:

 

[2000ssm6]

poor analogy

How can more than the correct amount of oil make them last longer? Do you put 8 quarts of oil in your 5 quart truck? After all, oil is cheap, engines aren't. The danged epa won't let them call for 8 quarts. Use a little common sense and make sure she's lubed up real goot!

The epa doesn't have anything to do with how much oil goes into a auto engine. That is the engine maker. A oil pan designed for 5 quarts can't hold 8. The crankshaft would not be able to "cut" the remaining oil left after being primed. Put 8 quarts in your truck and see if it runs/vibrates like hell. 9-10 and it will really jump around.

 

[spacemule]

The epa doesn't have anything to do with how much oil goes into a auto engine. That is the engine maker. A oil pan designed for 5 quarts can't hold 8. The crankshaft would not be able to "cut" the remaining oil left after being primed. Put 8 quarts in your truck and see if it runs/vibrates like hell. 9-10 and it will really jump around.

Ah, a pinko commie eh? You run what you like in your truck--I'll run what I like, sucka.

 

[2000ssm6]

Ah, a pinko commie eh? You run what you like in your truck--I'll run what I like, sucka.

Nah, no commies over 'ere. Just rednecks:spam:

Let me know when you break a crank or spin a main bearing, sucka.:monkey:

 

[spacemule]

I'm still in shock that you took that post seriously. Sheesh.

 

[2000ssm6]

I'm still in shock that you took that post seriously. Sheesh.

I didn't you idiot

 

[spacemule]

Then what was post #87?

 

[2000ssm6]

Then what was post #87?

Uhhh, a true statement????

 

[spacemule]

right. . .

 

[2000ssm6]

right. . .

Well, put it like this. I would hope that you knew better. Otherwise "Joe blow" would think it's ok to add 10 quarts to his Chevy 5.7L because a lawyer told him so.

 

[Timber_Hitch]

Amazing !

Oil reduces friction which reduces heat and reduces resistance,increases compression and I seem to get more use out of my saws then other saw users running less oil. My saws run very clean (likely not the very cleanest) at 25 to1 but hey it works better then anything I have wittnessed in the past when it comes to power and reliability.
.

I am starting to detect intelligence in this forum !

 

[Steve128]

Wrong Conclusion

I am starting to detect intelligence in this forum !

An aberration, you are mistaken

 

[Fish]

Somebody that doesn't keep their tuning up and lets their saws get a rich fuel to air mix may be better off at 50 to 1. If you get an lean fuel to air you will likely have serious problems no matter what ratio.

Now this statement here needs some serious thought and discussion.

Since the fuel and oil ratio, and with the fuel/mix-air ratio, are VERY
relative to the subject, and since any data here will be dismissed as
an epa conspiracy, what, pray tell, is the "CORRECT" oil/fuel ratio, and
so which "correct tuning" or rpm's are the correct way to tune?

If we buy into all of this jibberish, you say 32:1 is the correct ratio,
then someone tommorrow will start a thread saying 16:1 is the only way to go

To prove the absurdity of any stance, take it to the extreme either way.
16 to 1 on one side, 100 to 1 on the other, amsoil, ultra, Wal Mart, whatever.

We can tromp through all of the bull either way, and still end up where we
started, but let's at least make sure every one understands what is being
discussed. Since the oil is mixed with the fuel, then the fuel/air, and the
fuel/oil ratios are extremely related. And the science behind all of this
is there. So by just going with a 32:1, because grandpa did, and I have
done it thus for 30 years, does not prove anything. As these saws have been running on a 50:1 for quite a while as well, and a lot of money has been invested in R&D, and the thought of some "conspiracy" is absurd.
To make it even more thought provoking, you say more oil is better, then
one might ask, what weight oil. I am guessing straight 90 weight would be better, using your logic, or if not, just use straight 5w, or a real light oil, like kerosene, that would even be better, right?
Read through the posts on the subject that have been beat to death in the past on this site, there is some good info there.

 

[Timber_Hitch]

Now this statement here needs some serious thought and discussion.

Since the fuel and oil ratio, and with the fuel/mix-air ratio, are VERY
relative to the subject, and since any data here will be dismissed as
an epa conspiracy, what, pray tell, is the "CORRECT" oil/fuel ratio, and
so which "correct tuning" or rpm's are the correct way to tune?

.

Fish , here are the facts I gathered from the replys so far.
The correct oil to fuel ratio for the saw's best longevity wont meet the EPA's Air Emmission Standards for Manufacturers under the current Law now.
So 50:1 is the mixture that passed the EPA's emission's standards and the Manufacturers are required by LAW ! to tell you this. There is a new hurdle coming in 2008 or 2010 from the EPA that requires less emmissions from theses 2 cycles. My guess is that they will thin the oil out of the mixture more and sacrifice engine life. ( this is the easy way out ) I read where they are trying new materials such as ceramics and alloys with carbide impregnation on pistons and cylinders to overcome this issue. I can tell you that there is a new generation motor being used in the UAV's but it is only available to the military for now. But just as in GPS technology eventually we will reap the benefits.

There are the followers who say that 50:1 is good enough for Stihl and its good enough for me ! These are the members with alot of paper ! because they will be using it alot sooner than me. I am sorry I cant drink the Kool Aid that the EPA and the Manufacturers are serving. But that being said , there will still be those who cant see the light even when staring into the Sun.

OUT

 

[Fish]

Out. ???
Facts????

Kool aid????

Now that's funny.