the best saw?

[wolfman]

thanks to all for your help. Now I have to look at a few more choices. I don't know much about the nature or the extent of the 357xp problems . The info came from a saw mechanic who has seen a few problems with that saw I guess. I personally don't see why one saw would be particularly more susceptible to problems than other similar saws, but who knows? That was the first saw I looked at due to its weight and power but was steered away form it, perhaps falsely. Maybe I should check it out again to see what the price difference is between it and the 360.

 

[glens]

Wolfman,

You really wanted to know about two particular saws, yet were given many further recommendations.  It seems as though you've now chosen to consider an alternate Husky model.  Even with that change, I'd suggest getting the MS360 from your local dealer.  I use mine almost exclusively and can confidently say you'll never regret buying it.

Russ mentions a couple of points in favor of the 357XP.  I wonder if the seemingly greater top-end punch isn't really a reflection of the lower bottom-end grunt.  Evidently the two are very close in peak power output, but the smaller motor would likely be a little thinner at the bottom of the powerband, especially when it's obviously tuned more for the top.  The price being less is only when you mailorder it - I've never seen it in "real life".  In any event, you're talking about 20 or 30 bucks even then.  And the lower weight, at about 1/4 lb. is likely not going to be noticed in use.

Russ seems to be fairly balanced in his preferences, but does tend to lean toward the Huskies.  I feel I'm pretty much a mirror image of that.

After a couple of times of having to remove the outboard clutch (and all that entails) on that Husky model just to change the rim sprocket (as opposed to a single e-clip on the Stihl), I'd think you'd think the 20 or 30 bucks wasn't so much of a hardship after all.

Glen

 

[wolfman]

glen, thanks for your input. I understand your point about buying from a local dealer. Info such as that regarding the outboard clutch is the kind of useful info I am looking for to help me decide. I want to try to get the most bang for my buck, with the bang including ease of maintenance, optimal performance, etc. I have buddies who exclusively use husqvarnas--they seem to be a very popular saw here. They highly recommend the husky and discredit the stihl. Biased-probably. I do not know what their basis is for their choice of saw. I have only used my fathers 024 and never had any problem with it but it is an older saw, made when most things were made good. There are so many choices and so many things to consider it is very overwhelming to someone new to chainsaws. I have a decent knowledge of engines and know what to look for but the saw manufacturers don't let much out about the design of the saws. THey just all say they are the best. Do you think the 036 is big enough? Thanks again.

 

[jokers]

Hi glens, I hope you aren`t going to take offense to what I am going to say but essentially I think you are carrying on a weak argument regarding the merits of the inboard clutch of the ms 360 vs the outboard clutch of the 357xp. Let`s tackle the points of the typical Stihl fan`s argument in favor of the inboard clutch one item at a time. We`ll start with the assumed difficulty of swapping chains and mounting bars on a saw fitted with an outboard clutch since this is the most common task facing the user. Yes it is a tiny bit more difficult, but since I cut my teeth changing chains on an old STIHL that had an outboard clutch, but no clearance to drop the chain through, I can now do any Husky chain swap just about with my eyes closed. Husky learned from past mistakes made by all in this area and has since incorporated ample room into the design of the saw body to allow a user to just drop the chain behind the drum. As for mounting bars, I don`t see how it is any more difficult if the tensioner is backed off enough to get the chain around the bar, and let`s face it, the tensioner has to be backed off on any saw to fit the chain. So how many chains have you swapped on current model saws made by Husky bearing an outboard clutch? Now let`s address the issue of E clip vs threaded. It`s indisputable that an E clip is easier to get off than a threaded clutch, but how many people out there have gored themselves putting the E clip back on, or dropped the clip in the grass, or bent it so it failed during use? Lots. How many clutches have come off during use causing damage due to some sort of E clip failure or installation gaff? Plenty. How many threaded clutches come off during use? Virtually non-existent. So let`s just say that all else were equal, which it really isn`t, how many rims is the average nimrod changing himself in the field? The number of people who don`t even know that rims are a wear item is amazing. So now let`s look at a few other factors. When you have removed the clutch from any saw bearing an outboard clutch arrangement, everything on that end of the crankshaft is now readily removed for cleaning and inspection, and believe me, cleaning is very important to remove crud that traps heat on the crank seal and crankcase, and to prevent damaging the plastic oiler gears on many new saws. It also doesn`t hurt that you are in effect "chasing" the threads everytime you remove the clutch. How often has any saw model with an inboard clutch had this area neglected? Plenty. If you choose to remove the the clutch for maintenance and cleaning on a saw like the 360 it is a two step process, E clip and threaded. I could go on, but as you can see I`m not buying into this line of thought. Now let`s talk about all the stump power that the 357 has given up in favor of top end punch versus all of the stump power a 360 has. So just how much low end grunt does a 360, or any other roughly 60cc saw have? Yeah, didn`t think so. What is important, assuming that you use the saw properly and keep the revs up, is plenty of top end power. It`s much easier to keep in the powerband while maintaining a high chainspeed, or isn`t a high chainspeed in the cut conducive to higher production? I`m not knocking you or anyone else for buying a 360 or any other Stihl, just rebutting the nonsense that I have heard so much of. I have heard that Stihl holds the price advantage on the West coast but that is not even close to true in most areas of the East. At any rate, I wouldn`t let $30 or $40 dollars be the deciding factor for me either, I just choose the better product. Russ

 

[Crofter]

365 Husky

The 365 while not classified as a Pro saw pretty much has all the pro features. Replaceable rim sprocket, inboard clutch, ect. It has excellent torque and is a nice running saw. If you are stretching into the longer bar lengths it might be a bit better here than the 357 as it has lots of grunt. Put a high value on parts and service down the road. If you think about trading up sometime, Stihl and husky have excellent resale / trade in value compared to the more off beat brands.

Frank

 

[glens]

Is it big enough?  If you're only going to have one saw, it's the perfect size.  Every once in a while I stick a 24" bar on mine and it makes a fair showing in hardwoods of that size, although I wouldn't want to use it that way for "production", and it is a little nose-heavy with that replaceable nose solid bar.  I usually use the 20" laminated bar and the saw hangs almost perfectly level when held by the side of the front handgrip with it.

The saw is a little big for predominantly limbing (by that I mean baseball bat size and smaller) and it's a little small for predominantly 20"+ hardwood.  To get a little better useful range it would almost really be necessary to get the MS440 for the larger stuff and the MS260 for the smaller stuff, but now you're talking about a grand instead of 500.

The new MS280 looks interesting, from what I've seen about it, but I haven't been able to fondle one yet.  I understand it's set at about a $400 price point.  I do know for a fact that the MS360 (036Pro in my case) is very well built and suffers only from the restrictive muffler and limited-range dual carburetor needles.

The number of choices really are too bewildering and I don't envy your position.

When you pick up the MS360 from your local dealer, see if he'll take the RM2 chain off and put either an RM or RS version on in trade.  When you cut wood longer than the bar (or bore with it) that "safety" chain is just about worthless.  I like to keep at least one good chain of each RM and RS with me at all times.  If the wood's all clean the RS is the choice and if the wood isn't in the best shape or is frozen, the RM makes a good compromise.  Worse comes to worst, you can take and nick with a file corner the side of the rear tit on the bumper sideplate on the RM2 and snap it off with a pair of pliers.  That will free up the tip cutting capabilities, but you're still carrying a bunch of unnecessary weight.

Also pick up file and depth gauge guides so you can maintain your chains.  I'd also pick up an Oregon depth gauge guide that has the opening in the middle since it will allow you to get slightly more aggressive settings on the curve of the bar, if you feel you can benefit from that.

I started this a while ago and got side-tracked, and my preview shows Russ has a bit more to say, which I haven't looked over yet, but most certainly will consider.

Glen

 

[WRW]

Beware of claims. 357s blowing up? Who's tuning them?
There has been a lot of hooey about advantages and disadvantages of inboard and outboard clutches. I've even heard claims that the outboard clutch dissipates heat better. Gimme a break. E-clip failure? I guess it COULD happen if the clip had been damaged, but it costs pennies to replace if you're not sure about it.
If your buddies like Husky, especially if they have tried Stihl, there's most likely a reason for it. Maybe it's the local dealerships, or maybe they just like the sound...or maybe they really are better saws. Either saw you get will serve you well if you maintain it well.

 

[bwalker]

To add to Russ's assesment of the relative torque of the 036 I would say its lacking in low end grunt. Ihats why I would go with a 044 or 372 instead. 60cc saws have always been a bastard size IMO. They lack the grunt of a 044/372 and are not as light as 026/346.

 

[glens]

Hi Russ.  No offense taken.

Your points:<blockquote><li>assumed difficulty of swapping chains and mounting bars on a saw fitted with an outboard clutch</li></blockquote>That's a good one and I hadn't considered it.&nbsp; I thus didn't make it, and for the most part don't think I ever would.&nbsp; The only time it would occur to me as a problem would be when encountering a rim sprocket (which is marginally more difficult to fit a chain to than a spur anyway) on an outboard-clutch saw with limited space.<blockquote><li>the issue of E clip vs threaded</li></blockquote>You mention self-mutilation and damaging or dropping parts in the grass.&nbsp; I agree that with the e-clip it's more attractive to do the maintenance in the field, and it's certainly easier in a pinch, but stuff like that really should be done on the bench anyway if possible.&nbsp; I could augment your argument, since it pertains to removing the clutch itself (not just the drum) to include self-mutilation and damaged parts (flywheel keys, fins, starter lugs, coil mounts, spark plugs, spark plug holes, exhaust ports, pistons, &c.; all due to ham-fisted attempts to lock the crankshaft, not to mention clutches themselves).&nbsp; I concede your argument that the area behind the clutch is often neglected on inboard-clutch units, but doesn't Husky make a few big pro saws that way too?&nbsp; Anyway, my point was about changing a five dollar sprocket, not preventative maintenance.&nbsp; When it comes to the PM, yes, the e-clip does add a level of complexity.<blockquote><li>all the stump power that the 357 has given up in favor of top end punch versus all of the stump power a 360 has</li></blockquote>We're only talking about the 60cc range here, so there's not going to be a great deal of "stump power" anyway.&nbsp; My point is two-fold: one saw motor is slightly larger, and the other is tuned to provide it's power more towards the top end of the RPM spectrum.&nbsp; Is there really an argument there?&nbsp; Yes, higher (within reason) chain speed is better, but if high-enough is any easier to maintain, there has to be a very real benefit.&nbsp; I don't know how marked the difference between the two saws is in that respect, but there has to be <i>some</i>.

You rebutted some nonsense fairly well, and it doesn't offend me because for the most part I agree with you.

I do wonder about what you're implying though, when you state that you'd just buy the "better product".&nbsp; Something like "I'd just buy the product I like better" wouldn't lead me to think there were any implications.

Glen

 

[ac45]

Why isn't the 365 considered a Pro saw. I thought it was basically the same as a 372 just less displacement. There fore it should be just as duarable, maybe just not a screamer. I would think it could possibly run for more hours of use, and hold up better for somenoe that isnt trading there saw in every to years, like most people I know that use a saw professionally.

 

[Dennis]

357s blowing up

I know of one stock out of my shop and 4 stock out of another shop that have prematurely failed...(two tanks of fuel)..I will try to find a service bulletin that gives the serial number range of the problem saws....Dont let that deter one from buying a 357 though....very good saws...and especially good worked over.

 

[eyolf]

AC45:
The 365 and it's twin, Jons 2165, are not considered "pro" saws by some because they have less expensive open-ported cylinders, have a little less peak power, and they are marketed a little more toward the serious consumer/firewood market.

They are made as well as their brethren, same factories, same quality control procedures, etc, and will probably give the same durability and service. The Pro, however, is probably looking for the absolute best performance he can get in a size (weight!) range; why not go with the 372 for not that much more money?

Sometimes when we see "pro" we think "premium quality", but in this case I think "pro" has a little fuzzier meaning.

 

[Ryan Willock]

I've owned two 036's and didn't have ANY problems with either of them, in fact i still have one of them. They are very good and reliable saws and great for the serious firewood cutter or farmer. If I could only own one saw it would probably be an 036 (and my 066G of course ) now having said that I use my MS460 and my husky 346xp the most. I haven't had the pleasure of running a 357xp so i can't comment on that but i have run the 372xp, 385xp and a 362. If you go husky i would look strongly at the 372xp and the 346xp.