The Case for Full Wraps and Long Bars, Pt.II

[Cedarkerf]

Aw come on guys..... give the guy a break. He did do several things right. PPE first off. And then the tree fell in a safe direction. I agree a sharper chain, lower stump height, and a higher back cut would have been nice but he wasn't a pro.

Whos work truck is in the background, it looks like state or np campground?

 

[FourMoCajuns]

You are not insinuating that a state worker could be considered a pro are you?

 

[FourMoCajuns]

You guys know I am just messin with ya right?

 

[Industry]

I have tried cutting level with the scarf and don't like it. If it works for you in your situation, go with it. Where we cut I'm not usually taking out ALL the trees in a given space, and when the one you are cutting gets halfway to the ground, hangs up, and comes back at your knee because it doesn't have that lip on the stump side I hope you have room to get out of the way and time to react. Like I said, if it works in your situation, go with it, but here, it's not the BEST option for keeping myself and my guys safe.

 

[.aspx]

Cuttin' BIG wood in someones yard is a far cry from fallin' BIG TIMBER on sidehills.

Friggin' cosign. LOL @ not being impressed. That's a <strike>little</strike> lot different terrain than a nice manicured lawn.

 

[GASoline71]

Cutting level with the notch doesn't make no sense to me....The hinge left by cutting higher IS the guide.I have cut some smaller trees level,but the only way I can see being able to guide the tree when cutting level is leaving too much fiber pull.That's a no-no if you're cutting big timber,that would make the first log out of that tree worthless...Maybe I'm missing something.

I agree... when that big 'un wants to slide back on the stump as she goes over, you'll be glad you left at least 2 inches above the face cut.

BTW... what the hell is this PPE you all speak of...:hmm3grin2orange:

Gary

 

[Peacock]

Friggin' cosign. LOL @ not being impressed. That's a <strike>little</strike> lot different terrain than a nice manicured lawn.

PPE? That's what I was teaching my 2 year old son about last night in the bath tub!

 

[Tree Sling'r]

I agree... when that big 'un wants to slide back on the stump as she goes over, you'll be glad you left at least 2 inches above the face cut.

BTW... what the hell is this PPE you all speak of...:hmm3grin2orange:

Gary

Conventional or Humboldt?
Done Humboldt's since I started and have never had one come back off the stump and all my back cuts are flush with the under cut.
I could see that happening with a conventional undercut though.

From another post...
As far as the lip guiding a tree I don't see that. Yeah and hinge and undercut I see that.
Too much fiber pull with flush back cut...Huh?

 

[tek9tim]

I make my backcuts level with bottom of notch. I think it has better steering/guiding qualities. Don't get me wrong, i've tried the higher backcut, I didn't like it as much. Plus that is all GOL teaches. I follow pretty much all GOL felling techniques. I asked one of the GOL trainer's and he said if you make the backcut higher it makes the tree want to go over backwards. If you have never tried the backcut level with notch, you should, never hurts to try you might like it. I use it with the downcut then undercut for notching. I have cut trees the "other" way before, I didn't like the way the trees reacted while falling. I would reccomend to anybody this method of falling. I thaught that I couldn't learn anymore about falling, after I talked to this GOL trainer 4-5 years ago, I realized you can learn something new everyday. :hmm3grin2orange:

If you're using an open face notch, and your holding wood will stay intact all the way until the tree's on the ground, this will work. Otherwise, you have no protection from the butt kicking back. Unless you're using a humboldt, then stump shot isn't as neccessary. But, this is another GOL vs. how things are done out west argument :deadhorse:

and when the one you are cutting gets halfway to the ground, hangs up, and comes back at your knee because it doesn't have that lip on the stump side I hope you have room to get out of the way and time to react.

What're you doing still hanging around the stump? Having tea and crumpets? I dunno about you, but I've seen butt ends of trees do some pretty wild stuff. Luckily, it's been from the safety of a good 20 feet away. It's pretty suicidal to hang out. A guy I work with up at the ski area is still healing up from gettting piledrivered by the butt end of a small lodgepole this fall. Nothing out of the ordinary happened, he just didn't leave the stump. Use your escape route.

Edit to add: yeah, treesling'r, just some more forest fairy crap. Good post on the humboldts.

 

[Gologit]

If you're using an open face notch, and your holding wood will stay intact all the way until the tree's on the ground, this will work. Otherwise, you have no protection from the butt kicking back. Unless you're using a humboldt, then stump shot isn't as neccessary. But, this is another GOL vs. how things are done out west argument :deadhorse:






.

Good post. I don't want to get another east vs. west feud going but this GOL thing seems to be leading some people straight into trouble. From what I understand GOL is a good concept and theres a lot of excellent information available.That's good and I'm glad of it. But too many people let GOL take the place of common sense and the experience of others. The tree you're falling doesn't know (and doesn't give a damn) how much you've studied books and theory. There might be twenty trees that do exactly what you want but maybe that twenty-first will scare the crap out of you and humble you for days afterward. And it should. Every tree that surprises you is just another affirmation of the fact that no guarantee exists ...no matter how closely you follow some line of instruction or formula. Take the GOL if you want to but use your head, too. And listen when some of the professional fallers talk...theres a reason that they're alive.

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Good post. I don't want to get another east vs. west feud going but this GOL thing seems to be leading some people straight into trouble. From what I understand GOL is a good concept and theres a lot of excellent information available.That's good and I'm glad of it. But too many people let GOL take the place of common sense and the experience of others. The tree you're falling doesn't know (and doesn't give a damn) how much you've studied books and theory. There might be twenty trees that do exactly what you want but maybe that twenty-first will scare the crap out of you and humble you for days afterward. And it should. Every tree that surprises you is just another affirmation of the fact that no guarantee exists ...no matter how closely you follow some line of instruction or formula. Take the GOL if you want to but use your head, too. And listen when some of the professional fallers talk...theres a reason that they're alive.

Already rep'd you today Bob or I would.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The ANSI Standards say the back cut should be 1" or 2" higher for conventional and humbolt notches, at the same plane for open face notches.

A disadvantage of cutting the back cut higher, especially on large trees and shallow nothes, is it's easy to cut through your hinge and not know it. If you're at the same height, your saw bar pokes through.

I'd like to see a picture of a full wrap being used in a spot where it's needed. They don't let us have full wraps east of the mississippi.

 

[John Ellison]

Yes, I am west of the Miss. but you have to have written permission from the county judge to own them here. Then your picture is posted in the police station on the " watch out for " list.

The times that I think that full wraps come into their own is when using 28"+ bar length and making the falling cuts (esp a Humb.) on the left side of a tree. Anytime you are starting a horizontal cut on the left with a very nose heavy saw it helps a lot to have that handle bar on top and also the big dogs to catch on the tree. Once you are dogged in and cutting it dont matter, but starting the cut especially if you are reaching, it makes it a world easier.
Some places and situations they are needed very much, however I think in most of the country and in most of the situations they are just in the way, even in falling.

 

[GASoline71]

Conventional or Humboldt?
Done Humboldt's since I started and have never had one come back off the stump and all my back cuts are flush with the under cut.
I could see that happening with a conventional undercut though.

Yes... I should have stated that is what I meant using a Conventional face. Stump shot is non-existant on a Humboldt IMO. But that doesn't mean it can't happen.

Gary

 

[Tree Sling'r]

I had a pair of half craps show up on a saw once. I immediatly sawed them in half and made two coat hangers for my shop.
Guess I am just used to what I have always used (3/4) and did not want to get laughed out of the woods.
It's a West Coast thing.

 

[GASoline71]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Gary

 

[tek9tim]

I had a pair of half craps show up on a saw once. I immediatly sawed them in half and made two coat hangers for my shop.
Guess I am just used to what I have always used (3/4) and did not want to get laughed out of the woods.
It's a West Coast thing.

If I could give you rep, I would...

 

[Timberhauler]

They don't let us have full wraps east of the mississippi.

Hey wait a minute there buddy....I've got a couple of full wraps...and there are plenty of situations where I was glad I had it.

 

[GASoline71]

There is a wrap handlebar/long bar disclaimer around here somehwere... lemme see... found it!opcorn:

"1. Any 3/4 wrap handlebar, full wrap handle bar, and any chainsaw bars longer than 28" that are being shipped East of the Mississippi River shall have written permission from the governing State to which said items are being shipped.

2. User shall upon receipt, take items to the nearest "wrap handle and long bar inspection station" where they will have to show 3 forms of identification (a belt buckle is not a form of identification), a blood sample (for DNA test to see if there is any West Coast blood in you), proper chainsaw powerhead to attatch item to, and a $50.00 inspection fee. Blood sample will take approximately 90 days to process.

3. After the 90 day waiting period, and a positive West Coast blood match, user may pick up powerhead with attached items from inspection station. User must then attend a 3 week training course at one of 5 of the Full-wrap saw colleges located in either Columbus Ohio, Albany New York, Savannah Georgia, Greensboro North Carolina, or Lexington Kentucky. Once the 3 week course is completed with a passing grade a full wrap/long bar certificate will be issued to the user.

4. If the blood test comes back negative. User will be given their $50.00 back in the form of a Wal-Mart gift certificate to use toward the purchase of a green saw of their choice."

Sorry you guys... I couldn't resist!!!:jester: :jester: :jester:

Gary

 

[chowdozer]

There is a wrap handlebar/long bar disclaimer around here somehwere... lemme see... found it!opcorn:

"1. Any 3/4 wrap handlebar, full wrap handle bar, and any chainsaw bars longer than 28" that are being shipped East of the Mississippi River shall have written permission from the governing State to which said items are being shipped.

2. User shall upon receipt, take items to the nearest "wrap handle and long bar inspection station" where they will have to show 3 forms of identification (a belt buckle is not a form of identification), a blood sample (for DNA test to see if there is any West Coast blood in you), proper chainsaw powerhead to attatch item to, and a $50.00 inspection fee. Blood sample will take approximately 90 days to process.

3. After the 90 day waiting period, and a positive West Coast blood match, user may pick up powerhead with attached items from inspection station. User must then attend a 3 week training course at one of 5 of the Full-wrap saw colleges located in either Columbus Ohio, Albany New York, Savannah Georgia, Greensboro North Carolina, or Lexington Kentucky. Once the 3 week course is completed with a passing grade a full wrap/long bar certificate will be issued to the user.

4. If the blood test comes back negative. User will be given their $50.00 back in the form of a Wal-Mart gift certificate to use toward the purchase of a green saw of their choice."

Sorry you guys... I couldn't resist!!!:jester: :jester: :jester:

Gary

I'll rep ya!
Wait, I got no bullets! :deadhorse: