The Whining Thread

[H 2 H]

I can't believe how many tank traps there are on the other side of those gates

 

[HorseFaller]

It's a discover pass. You have to have it if its not hunting season on most roads here. Plus it's needed or your vehicle access pass you get for fishing or hunting on some state lands or parks. The kicker I see is the eagle watchers who use all river access points that I need a pass to use or I will be ticketed. At one boat launch up here I counted ten vehicles without a pass that where all there to watch the eagles. You would think at $115 a ticket they would be all over getting some state revenue but no no one there to check. I've had friends that where ticketed up cutting wood on the landing that they are working but since it was weekend they should of had one they where told.

 

[HorseFaller]

The closing of roads I think is mostly due to the forestry plans in effect. That state in order to build new roads old roads need to be decommissioned. Plus the fact it will stop dumping if garbage and vandalism or theft of trees and timber.

 

[northmanlogging]

I am morally apposed to the discover pass, both because of lack of any real access, and because DNR is supposed to be self reliant, they shouldn't need anymore money then what they make off of timber mineral, and watershed sales. But then I don't knead a whole fleet of new red trucks every year and 100 $40. paddle locks every few weeks...

 

[H 2 H]

I spent many years working for two watershed groups here (Skagit and Stilly) part of what I did was travel on DNR closed roads and looking down from air planes looking for dump sites (garbage) in the Golden Triangle area (Between the Stilly; Sauk and Skagit) during the summer months I did see much but these funny looking green patches of this herb growing in different area's up there

 

[slowp]

A start is to get on the mailing list for upcoming projects. And pay attention to meetings. Our forest is trying to come up with a plan to close roads. The simplest ones, and closest roads to the office are those in matrix designated areas, which is supposed to be managed for timber production, but isn't. My comment was that those roads in matrix should not be decommissioned. You could follow suit. Once a road is decommissioned, there's no way the enviros will let it be rebuilt. It is off the system. Now, the roads can be closed, but not decommissioned. It is called keeping them as a level 1 road. That means that culverts may be pulled and the road waterbarred and closed, but it will still be on the road system and ready to put back in shape when the time comes.

Another point. The Northwest Timber plan has never met the objectives of supplying timber as it was supposed to. I thought there was a lawsuit over that, but I'm not sure what happened. This is for us westside folks, but we need to know the management designations for areas, and make sure that those guidelines are being followed.

They sure aren't here, and a lot of matrix land is off limits to anything but helicopters, because the roads were decommissioned. These are all plantations from the 1960s which have reached or are near the prime size for harvest.

Oh, that part about roads close or easy to get to for specialists is important. They often are under the gun to meet a decommissioning target of a certain amount of miles. An easy to get to road will take less of their time.

That's my theory of why some pretty stupid decisions were made in this part of the country.

Right now they have a wildlife biologist who is working well with the timber folks and they even have proposed some small clearcuts. But the kibosh was put on that when the retired wildlife biologist got wind of it and either appealed the sale or threatened to. The FS backed down.

Pretty sad....

 

[mile9socounty]

Their ignorance is sad. That area can be logged, and any good trees left behind, or it will all burn up. The owls certainly have no habitat when it all burns up.

I think we have to either get very loud, like they did, or concede that the federal lands will no longer be managed. I hope there is enough timberland to keep everybody working on state and private lands.

In my fair state, the newcomers don't realize that the state forest lands are trust lands for financing education. They need to be reminded regularly. Otherwise, those acres will be locked up--except for recreational use.

Well the huggers are going to love it when all that beetle kill catches fire and the damned spotted chicken has no place to live. Maybe on private ground? I dont see that going very well. In the huggers redwood barns? That would be better. Hell let a large project fire go through. We can all feast on spotted chicken. BBQ cedar flavor. Plus the revenue from the logging goes back into the community. Sparks job, less unemployed folks, more beer drinking, making kids, ect, ect, ect. Guess the huggers and the hill have the same vision for us folks that depend on the forest.

 

[redprospector]

Pretty sad is right.
I go to all of the meetings that I possibly can. What I've found is that the Forest Service has a lack of "intestinal fortitude" when it comes to opposing the so-called environmentalist. I've been told that "it's just not worth it" to oppose the enviro's. My opinion is that if they can't do their job then maybe it's not worth it to send out pay checks.

Andy

 

[northmanlogging]

think it would be kosher to stuff on of dem pop up thermometers in the spotted turkeys, maybe with a gps locator, that way when the fire hits we'll know when they are done and where to pick em up? Maybe the more smooth talkers could get greed piece or the sea error club to pay for it... under the pretense of "observation purposes" of course

 

[madhatte]

Broke my damned glasses agin. That's the third time in a year, and every time they've broken in the same way -- clean fracture right in the middle of the bridge across nose. I wonder what I'm doing wrong?

(I mean, other than being a fiber puller)

 

[Gologit]

Pretty sad is right.
I go to all of the meetings that I possibly can. What I've found is that the Forest Service has a lack of "intestinal fortitude" when it comes to opposing the so-called environmentalist. I've been told that "it's just not worth it" to oppose the enviro's. My opinion is that if they can't do their job then maybe it's not worth it to send out pay checks.

Andy

Same here on the meetings. I hate meetings...but I go.

We hear the same "it's just not worth the costs involved" crap when we ask them why they don't stand up to the preservationists. I think that's just verbal shorthand for "we really don't care and we're not going to make waves".

I know that the Fed's main focus has moved away from timber harvest but that doesn't excuse the rampant mismanagement that we see now.

I understand the need for preservation and I understand the need for recreation. What I don't understand is the absolute waste of a resource and the closed minded attitude that allows that waste to continue. There are remedies available. They're easily applied and would benefit everyone involved.

And when you stand up in a meeting, and you say the things I've written here, and you watch the people at the big table in the front of the room nodding their heads in apparent empathy while their eyes glaze over and they start sneaking looks at the clock...you know that you're just wasting your time. Again.
Just because they listen doesn't mean they hear you.

But I'll keep going to the meetings.

 

[madhatte]

Right now they have a wildlife biologist who is working well with the timber folks and they even have proposed some small clearcuts. But the kibosh was put on that when the retired wildlife biologist got wind of it and either appealed the sale or threatened to.

I have several wildlife folks, both State and Federal, who I consider allies. The way it works is straight cooperation -- both sides give a little, the world doesn't end. I wish there was a way to get our system outside of our fence. We still have friction -- plenty of it, in fact -- but there's mutual respect and a recognition that we're all really on the same team.

 

[RandyMac]

Mr Magoo Opening Theme - YouTube

 

[paccity]

Broke my damned glasses agin. That's the third time in a year, and every time they've broken in the same way -- clean fracture right in the middle of the bridge across nose. I wonder what I'm doing wrong?

(I mean, other than being a fiber puller)

don't know? but that just happened to my swisty flexy frames. wearing an old pair now till the new ones come in . work ok up close but far is fuzzy.

 

[paccity]

mr magoo opening theme - youtube

ha!

 

[mile9socounty]

It doesnt make me feel good to admit or say this. But I hope we get one huge damned fire on the FS side and let all them damned critters burn to a crisp. Maybe it will open some eyes when billions/trillions of dollars are wasted to figure out why. Over density, lack of management and too strict of restrictions. I do agree, we do need recreation areas as well as wilderness areas. But damnit to hell, just cant let the whole lot go to waste.

 

[northmanlogging]

I think I may have said this before, maybe not here...

The problem is that Inviroknuts are emotional, loggers and foresters generally are not. Most people will side with the balling child after a fist fight, regardless as to whether the crybaby started swinging first... because they are annoying they get the attention of the people what make decisions, if only to shut them the Hel up, the catch comes when you give a cry baby a sucker to quite them down, they just start crying the next time they want anything...

We have an uphill battle to fix forests, save jobs, protect a lifestyle, etc. beings how most of the loggers I know wouldn't even let out of whimper if they had branch hanging out of there leg, makes it hard to stand up in front of a committee and say, "hey uh those wackos are nuts and here's why" cause that would be whinning, and loggers don't whine do we, (please note this is the whining thread and its what on page 130...and more than a year old...). Hel I could keep goin but none of this you haven't heard before and I would be preaching to the tone deaf choir...

That's we need a rock star on our side like a not gay Sting...

 

[mile9socounty]

Well put sir. And who ever said us folk dont know any better? Your right. The brat always get what it wants. Whether its whining or crying or a tissy fit. On the subject of legs, I know I didnt boohoo when I busted my tib fib, but I almost knocked the EMT out for rubbing the bones together. Funny story.

 

[slowp]

No bones rubbing together stories, please. It has already been a rather disruptive evening here.

 

[RandyMac]

No bones rubbing together stories, please. It has already been a rather disruptive evening here.

Did I ever tell you about the times I broke the same collarbone?