Does yelling at them work? I mean, it won't make them any smarter, or even make them better fallers, but maybe they'll take a little extra care from now on. Or maybe yelling at them will make you feel better.
this is something i was never taught...
- Thread starter forestryworks
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Does yelling at them work? I mean, it won't make them any smarter, or even make them better fallers, but maybe they'll take a little extra care from now on. Or maybe yelling at them will make you feel better.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, boring in so the log doesn't slab out when bucking, a good use of boring. Used no matter what the saw size. As far as using the bore cut for every freaking tree..........
testlight
ArboristSite Operative
And for the rest of us that have more time than experience... The hydraulic jack comes to the rescue
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
Sheesh... Kind of a broad label there.
Does yelling at them work? I mean, it won't make them any smarter, or even make them better fallers, but maybe they'll take a little extra care from now on. Or maybe yelling at them will make you feel better.
I try not to yell except to be heard above equipment noise or when I'm doing a faceplant. Not being a faller, I can't really tell them how to improve. Bore cutting? I think just taking a little more time to figure out where to put the tree and wedging more, would help. And I think that's what they need, is somebody to work closely with who knows what to do. These guys seem more "independent" than most fallers. They don't even carpool!
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
The little tag line in my signature has more to do with saw maintenance overengineering.
Most will do it because they are scared of a barberchair. Which usually means their face cut is too narrow or to shallow, or their backcut is not deep enough. They seem to think it is safer... when the reality of it is... it's a dangerous cut to use.
Now buckin' logs in tension on the ground... you bet. Do it all the time...
Just don't understand the need to bore cut every single tree when fallin'.
Gary
testlight
ArboristSite Operative
SOunds like they need a mentor, that and.....
I am not for or against bore cuts, I am not for or against #6 shot in my 12 ga.; 16 oz. claw hammers etc.
Here is what I am against. This summer I attended a free (I know) seminar put on by the state forestry on chainsaw safety/and safe felling practices. Lots of tornadoes in the last couple of years so this was a good thing. It also had a lot of stuff on timber management and TSI work so I enjoyed it and learned quite a bit.
The chainsaw part was put on by a guy that is sponsored by a BIG name saw co. and is hired out by different outfits to give safety and felling training.
Somewhere around seventy people were there. Mostly home/landowners and forestry employees. Just a few loggers and arborist's. I thought he was doing a great job until we went to the woods and he fell a couple of trees.
An 18" (oak) and one about 28" were two feet apart. He was going to fall the smaller one to the north but it had a fair side lean to the east. Both trees had several dead limbs. With a one minute explanation of what he was going to do he fired up the saw and lit into it. He bored the backcuts and proceded to whale the heck out of the wedges and did not look up once. He did look up before he started. His helper had just told the crowd that he always puts em' where he wants em. When he tripped the tree it fell a good 80 deg. off. toward the side lean. He had cut the upper side of the hinge off. The crowd was so in awe of the bore cuts that hardly anyone noticed.
A couple of guys asked, why did it go that way when you faced it that way. I could'nt hear his reply but understood him say that he did it intentionally. I say BS. Everybody makes mistakes. He made a mistake and didn't have the guts to admit it. If he intentionally cut off the upper side of the hinge he would/should have mentioned it before it was tripped. It would have been a good learning opportunity for everyone to see the reason not to cut the upper side off. I thought that was a big part of the reasoning behind bore/release, so you could scrutinize your hinge?
He did mention the necessity of looking up but only a couple of times and then it was briefly.
I used to think that any training was better than nothing but when it is impressionable new saw owners I don't know what the answer is. Sometimes a little bit of knowledge could be a bad thing.
I have been to a couple of other training seminars similar to this and have good things to say about them.
Here is what I am against. This summer I attended a free (I know) seminar put on by the state forestry on chainsaw safety/and safe felling practices. Lots of tornadoes in the last couple of years so this was a good thing. It also had a lot of stuff on timber management and TSI work so I enjoyed it and learned quite a bit.
The chainsaw part was put on by a guy that is sponsored by a BIG name saw co. and is hired out by different outfits to give safety and felling training.
Somewhere around seventy people were there. Mostly home/landowners and forestry employees. Just a few loggers and arborist's. I thought he was doing a great job until we went to the woods and he fell a couple of trees.
An 18" (oak) and one about 28" were two feet apart. He was going to fall the smaller one to the north but it had a fair side lean to the east. Both trees had several dead limbs. With a one minute explanation of what he was going to do he fired up the saw and lit into it. He bored the backcuts and proceded to whale the heck out of the wedges and did not look up once. He did look up before he started. His helper had just told the crowd that he always puts em' where he wants em. When he tripped the tree it fell a good 80 deg. off. toward the side lean. He had cut the upper side of the hinge off. The crowd was so in awe of the bore cuts that hardly anyone noticed.
A couple of guys asked, why did it go that way when you faced it that way. I could'nt hear his reply but understood him say that he did it intentionally. I say BS. Everybody makes mistakes. He made a mistake and didn't have the guts to admit it. If he intentionally cut off the upper side of the hinge he would/should have mentioned it before it was tripped. It would have been a good learning opportunity for everyone to see the reason not to cut the upper side off. I thought that was a big part of the reasoning behind bore/release, so you could scrutinize your hinge?
He did mention the necessity of looking up but only a couple of times and then it was briefly.
I used to think that any training was better than nothing but when it is impressionable new saw owners I don't know what the answer is. Sometimes a little bit of knowledge could be a bad thing.
I have been to a couple of other training seminars similar to this and have good things to say about them.
hammerlogging
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sounds like an arrogant SOB. Sounds like he needs a lick (what exactly are you allowwed to say here.. cause thats watered down) I think I know who you are talking about and I my guess is his last name starts with A. Don't know him, seen him at one show though, bugged the hell out of me.
Agreed about teaching the wrong people advanced technique. Non pro cutters just need to know the basic safety, and to recognize potentially hazardous trees and situations, and avoid these hazards and call one of us.
Agreed about teaching the wrong people advanced technique. Non pro cutters just need to know the basic safety, and to recognize potentially hazardous trees and situations, and avoid these hazards and call one of us.
I look at various cuts and techniques (like a bore cut) as a tool - just one of many which is there if you need it.
Same as I have a "steering wheel puller". I almost never use my steering wheel puller, but when I need it, it is there.
Just good to have various tools and know how (and when) to use them is all. (And of course to know the dangers of using certain tools and take the appropriate safety precautions when using them).
Same as I have a "steering wheel puller". I almost never use my steering wheel puller, but when I need it, it is there.
Just good to have various tools and know how (and when) to use them is all. (And of course to know the dangers of using certain tools and take the appropriate safety precautions when using them).
Ivan H.
ArboristSite Member
Thats where the skidder comes in handy.Please try and get your trees on the ground. I won't say where, but I have been coming across a lot of hangups lately. I don't hear the guys in that area using wedges much. I don't think they are thinking about the people who have to come in AFTER the falling. They do put a little teeny piece of Danger Tree flagging on the hangups. This is my pet peeve of the month. I'll be crawling through the fell and buck and see what looks to my near sighted eyes like a leaner, (yup, I should have the glasses along) then I see the chunks from trying to get the tree unstuck, and I realize it isn't just a leaner, then I utter a bad word and start detouring around, but sometimes the hangups are so prevalant, there is nowhere to detour to. So I don't care what kind of cut you do. Be safe and TRY HARD TO GET THE TREE ON THE GROUND. Rant over. All is happiness and good thoughts now. Picture follows. This was just one of many spots. You may now stone me.
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The skidder would have to sprout wings to get into that area. The helicopter is too small to fly a skidder into the unit and the road has a giant sluice out.
Ivan H.
ArboristSite Member
That most be on top of a saddle, huh ?Why don't the land owner fix the road,or are they going to fly the logs out?
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Burvol
Bullbuck
I'd like to come up and cut a piece for you guys, I can do better than that crap. I went down and cut for Bushler, and I have to say it was a good thing for being on super steep, nasty ground. Bushler is one heck of a knowledgable logger, but also one really nice guy.
forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
i wanna watch burvol cut, learn logging from bushler and learn to cut from burvol and buy 'em both a beer!
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What? No state permits to get? No roads to build? No market to find? Trucks are plentiful there? Sounds like logging utopia.
Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
SlowP, those are just associated details. I was refering to the physical act of logging.
The good news, Oregon Dept. of Forestry is good to work with. As long as we abide by the Oregon Forest Practices Act they leave us alone. They even sponsor workshops etc. to help us....rather than inflict obstructions and roadblocks to prevent us from logging our private property.
The good news, Oregon Dept. of Forestry is good to work with. As long as we abide by the Oregon Forest Practices Act they leave us alone. They even sponsor workshops etc. to help us....rather than inflict obstructions and roadblocks to prevent us from logging our private property.
Humptulips
ArboristSite Guru
What are the RMZ setbacks like down there? How many leave trees per acre?
