Thread on You Tube falling mistakes

[bitzer]

They have an unlimited supply of fuel in Europe! They also like dancing around while felling and limbing, great cardio! There's only so many trees over there, they have all the time in the world to drop them. Really unbelievable how long it takes to cut a tree down over there. I was told by a guy over there that the shorter the bar the greater the skill of the sawyer. I told him they take forever to cut a tree down over there. No reply. Long bars save lives! and backs...

 

[SWE#Kipp]

Don't know if a longer bar saves life's ,,, skill on the other hand do with or with out a long bar ,,,,,

Don't saying the guy in vid is skilled, but pretty much the same discussion you guys have here occur about your way of logging on some of the European forums

Happy new year to you all !!

Ps. I do use longer bars

(15"-36")

 

[Meadow Beaver]

That tree was a perfect 32" bar tree. They all are. Go long for a while and your so use to it, anything less feels strange except for the 28. I guess I could survive in an emergency with one. If your over 6 feet tall, a 32 should pretty much be standard in the wood he was cutting. I can just see these guys crawling around and bucking with midget bars, what a sight. Go buck blow down and you'll understand why long bars shine in logging.

I like that, midget bars. LMAO :greenchainsaw:

 

[smokechase II]

A couple quick thoughts

If the faller is drawing a line from above with either their hand or eye, as an extension out from the saw sights, they are aiming generally and not being as specific as they could be if they put both the sights and the target in the same view. Like aiming a pistol. The sights are short in both instances - but please aim 'down the barrel' when accuracy is required.

In a similar vein and as previously stated, a ball peen hammer is a weak tool.
A 4 pounder, (falling axe), would be minimum for competency. Especially when you can drive to the stump, for heavens sake.

=======================

Did you ever know a skier who was good that could only turn one way?
(No Oval Track Racing jokes.)
The faller who always makes all his cuts from one side limits themselves from working in topography, trees that actually are larger and around dangerous trees/snags.
With adequate bar length, all the cuts can be made from one side of the tree. This is necessary when dealing with a steep slope or a tree with hazards or access limitations on one side.
It should be noted that there are inherent weaknesses with most any technique and the open face has one here in that making the initial sloping cut while sighting from the 'right' side is so difficult that you virtually never see a GOL type using it from that side.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --

The way to get good at making all your cuts from either side is to practice cutting on whatever side you're uncomfortable on till you are equally good there. Get that weakness out of your mind and body.
The way to get good at hitting a precise target is to do that on every tree.
Don't pick out a target 40 feet out and settle for being 'just' a couple feet off.
Hit something 80' plus and regard yourself as a failure to humanity if you don't nail it spot on.

 

[smokechase II]

28" vs. 32" Bar

Longer bar discussion. I've posted this before and there is no since in believing it now either.

A thinning crew supervisor locally for the State Forestry claims to have virtually eliminated back injuries on his crew.
Went from something like just below a dozen in two years to none by moving up from 28" bars to 32" bars thinning.
Bending over, a lot, every day, for weeks at a time ..........
You can say bend your knees all you want, but people get tired, legs get tired and they bend at the waist and they hurt their backs.
Thinning with a longer bar looks like a compensation for some inadequacy but it represents intelligence.
(I'm aware that thinning the smallest trees is best done by weed whacker type circular saws. That is intelligent, holding your equipment with a harness.) However, when the trees get too big for that equipment ........)

In response to longer bars saving lives.
They do without a doubt.

The further from danger you can place yourself the better.

Picture yourself buck a 30" log that is going to release with speed and power. One side could be going up and/or the other could be headed down.

Cut all you can on the off side with a 36" bar.

Finish on your side with yourself even further from the danger zone because of that off side cut.
Picture how much further your bar gets your body from those forces.

 

[SWE#Kipp]

Longer bars are good for the type of logging you guys do and i would not like to be logging in your terrain with short bar, but the video commented in this thread is not made by professional logger but by a recreational cutter it's a hobby for him.
And as far as bending over with a short bar when thinning in the terrain we have, well if your technique and planning are bad you will bend over.

Personally I try take different techniques and use what i can from them to make my work safer and more productive day in woods, for me that means using long bars were i need them and shorter were they fit better

I'm a bit surprised some of you are so quick to judge other techniques as bad or wrong just because they don't fit your kind of logging ,,,,,,

Happy new year !!!!

 

[John Ellison]

I am only 5'6 or 7" tall

So take this for what its worth. Usually I agree with the west co. fallers, but saying long bars are the best for every situation is wrong. Just the same as GOL bore cut and release for every tree is wrong.
Sure, there are places where you need the long bar/methods but there are places where you don't. In this area and I suspect others as well if you cant safely fall timber with a 20" bar working from one side of the tree in most all cases a longer bar will not help you any at all. There are exceptions but if 95% of your stumps are 12 to 20" and the ground is flat, you are faster with a shorter bar.
I usually do not have back problems, but I had a much tireder? back when using a long bar all day than when using a short one.
Can any other fallers that have actually used both long and short bars to fall timber comment on this? I know that I was also against short bars until I finally tried the shorter versions here in the flat ground ,park like always sunny conditions that we have here.

The guy did say in the first video that that tree was much larger than what he usually fell. I have to say that from what I saw (whatched only parts of it) that on that ground and in those trees I would probably use a 20" bar and work the trees up from the ground. I think that his bi-directional undercut or whatever it is was just sloppy work on his part.

 

[John Ellison]

Longer bars are good for the type of logging you guys do and i would not like to be logging in your terrain with short bar, but the video commented in this thread is not made by professional logger but by a recreational cutter it's a hobby for him.
And as far as bending over with a short bar when thinning in the terrain we have, well if your technique and planning are bad you will bend over.

Personally I try take different techniques and use what i can from them to make my work safer and more productive day in woods, for me that means using long bars were i need them and shorter were they fit better

I'm a bit surprised some of you are so quick to judge other techniques as bad or wrong just because they don't fit your kind of logging ,,,,,,

Happy new year !!!!

Just now read your post and will say I agree completely Kipp. Happy New Year!!!

 

[forestryworks]

the gear queer guy made his face, back cut, and hinge in a defect area of the tree.

did he check for soundness, or did he just get lucky?

 

[Burvol]

If the faller is drawing a line from above with either their hand or eye, as an extension out from the saw sights, they are aiming generally and not being as specific as they could be if they put both the sights and the target in the same view. Like aiming a pistol. The sights are short in both instances - but please aim 'down the barrel' when accuracy is required.

In a similar vein and as previously stated, a ball peen hammer is a weak tool.
A 4 pounder, (falling axe), would be minimum for competency. Especially when you can drive to the stump, for heavens sake.

=======================

Did you ever know a skier who was good that could only turn one way?
(No Oval Track Racing jokes.)
The faller who always makes all his cuts from one side limits themselves from working in topography, trees that actually are larger and around dangerous trees/snags.
With adequate bar length, all the cuts can be made from one side of the tree. This is necessary when dealing with a steep slope or a tree with hazards or access limitations on one side.
It should be noted that there are inherent weaknesses with most any technique and the open face has one here in that making the initial sloping cut while sighting from the 'right' side is so difficult that you virtually never see a GOL type using it from that side.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --

The way to get good at making all your cuts from either side is to practice cutting on whatever side you're uncomfortable on till you are equally good there. Get that weakness out of your mind and body.
The way to get good at hitting a precise target is to do that on every tree.
Don't pick out a target 40 feet out and settle for being 'just' a couple feet off.
Hit something 80' plus and regard yourself as a failure to humanity if you don't nail it spot on.

Your dang right! Cutting all trees from one side is like a pitcher throwing the same pitch over and over, just hoping for the best. Doesn't anyone know what the uphill/downhill side of timber is? (I'm not talking the ground) You wonder how saws get smashed? Losing trees? (Cutting from under the lean)

People can believe or say what they want, but we do things out West because they work in our timber (which is anything from massive to tiny-get it?) Yes, there are big hardwoods, and big trees, but truly big wood in AK,BC,WA,OR,CA is a completely different animal. The techniques and practices we use were developed to keep people alive and not break up the wood. I'm not biased against anyone, so please don't feel that I am jabbing.

 

[056kid]

Wedging "big trees"...with a ball pin hammer. OK

They tell you how and where to stand, exactly where to put your legs and shoulder. Nothing about that could be under the lean. I have seen video of tons of people that can only cut with the tree to their left shoulder. What the hell? Oh wait, you only have half your handle bar! :hmm3grin2orange:

Hay, I can cut in all directions, & with only half a handlebar.

I do like the 3/4 or full ones better though....

 

[Burvol]

Hay, I can cut in all directions, & with only half a handlebar.

I do like the 3/4 or full ones better though....

I'm pretty decent with a misery wipe and axe, but we don't do it like that anymore

 

[isaaccarlson]

Then you have people like this...

I will let the vid speak for itself. Listen to what she says at the beginning....."the big saw froze up"
no mix??????
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[056kid]

You know you have got to feel like a dumb ass when that happens!!

 

[Burvol]

Classic example of what I was talking about. Just cut everything from that side, even under the lean.

 

[slowp]

In the Forestry in Sweden 1 besides having a good lunch, they did what many fallers do, dropped a tree across the road. Now around here, when that happens it means the yarder can't be moved in and set up until the shovel is walked in to clear the road. Gotta think about things like that too. If the shovel is needed a couple miles away to still load trucks out, it can make for some bad thoughts about the fallers. Of course, I'm talking about trees that do not lean over the road. And they usually won't if the road is brand new. Are we still friends?:greenchainsaw:

 

[Burvol]

In the Forestry in Sweden 1 besides having a good lunch, they did what many fallers do, dropped a tree across the road. Now around here, when that happens it means the yarder can't be moved in and set up until the shovel is walked in to clear the road. Gotta think about things like that too. If the shovel is needed a couple miles away to still load trucks out, it can make for some bad thoughts about the fallers. Of course, I'm talking about trees that do not lean over the road. And they usually won't if the road is brand new. Are we still friends?:greenchainsaw:

We make it a practice to not practice treating the road like it's your strip. My Dad is usually the one we always delegate to cut the road & powerline strips. He is the guy that everybody has always relied on when things really count.

 

[Burvol]

I will let the vid speak for itself. Listen to what she says at the beginning....."the big saw froze up"
no mix??????
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dnn-WDiqp_0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dnn-WDiqp_0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Did you notice he just goes over to the far side and cuts up all of his holding wood while standing under the lean right off the get. His arms dropping and his whole body in disbelief is of the utmost classic caliber.

 

[SWE#Kipp]

I will let the vid speak for itself. Listen to what she says at the beginning....."the big saw froze up"
no mix??????
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dnn-WDiqp_0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dnn-WDiqp_0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Love that clip

 

[hammerlogging]

Just now read your post and will say I agree completely Kipp. Happy New Year!!!

I appreciate both of ya'lls comments.

I cut for a couple of years with a 20, cloassic east coast directional felling crap. I worked for a couple of ex heli dudes and they convinced me to atleast try a longer bar. I did. I NEVER looked back.

All of my fallingpast and opresent has been targeting mature hardwood timber, although depending on the prescription that can also mean cutting lots of smaller diameter junk.

If all I was doing was small diameter junk I would drop to a smaller/lighter saw but keep the longer bar (I'm 6'3" so a 32" seems good) to save weight. If it won't pull the longer bar, hop up the smaller cc saw so it will.

Walking the trunks limbing all is "at your finger tips". I can bore through most of my stems when felling, and it gives me mor clearance for crap under lots of tension.

If I may once again repeat the converstion that led to my evolution:
"But here in the east coast we pride ourseleves in being able to cut a 50" butt with a 20" bar"

"We can too, but its not as fast"

Period.