Three things wrong with the Holzaforma saws

[stihl86]

The 200T clone? They go for about 175 on sale unless you buy in bulk they go for a bit less. Ive only gotten to run 1 and it started the same as oem, pulled the 16" as easy as one would expect. Havent seen any complaints in any of the fb groups from owners, just people who have never seen or run one and have their heads in the sand with blind hate.

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It's stolen property.
That's the problem I have with this stuff.
Could care less about cost or quality.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

It's stolen property.

Is it? You cant claim intellectual property forever...

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[stihl86]

Is it? You cant claim intellectual property forever...

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You can on right vs wrong.
The saws were made long before any perceived statutes expired.
And they work only if the country acknowledges international law.
China seems to choose not to, on occasions. On multiple levels.
Seems some americans sure as **** don't either.
Its a personal morality thing. Some understand. Some don't.
And yes, I am judging LOL.
Again, a company using china like the whores they are is one thing.
Outright theft is something completely different.
Stihl says their design are stolen.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

You can on right vs wrong.
The saws were made long before any perceived statutes expired.
And they work only if the country acknowledges international law.
China seems to choose not to, on occasions. On multiple levels.
Seems some americans sure as **** don't either.
Its a personal morality thing. Some understand. Some don't.
And yes, I am judging LOL.
Again, a company using china like the whores they are is one thing.
Outright theft is something completely different.
Stihl says their design are stolen.

I don't disagree...morally its very sketchy, but many new engines from briggs and Kohler, all the MTD powermore engines, are clones of or based off of, the honda GX engines. When the cloners started, they were photocopies of the GX engines, down to color and decals except they added a C before Honda (Chonda). They got sued...and thus the game began on making enough changes to skirt international laws. I hate it...but, i also know most large oems are using chinese parts and marking the hell out of them..

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[Justin Taylor]

For guys that like to smash a saw every month it’s great

 

[Fatherwheels]

Well, 1. They come from China
2. they are made in China, 3. They are Chinese.

 

[Fatherwheels]

Does Holzfforma? Im 4 for 4 on them...better than the luck ive had with new briggs engines, 1 dropped valve at 2 minutes and 1 carb screw into a piston at 45 minutes, out of 6 new briggs engines in 3 years. Ive never had a problem with a chinese engine...hell my new splitter has a 7hp Chinese briggs on it and i love it

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Briggs have not made a good engine in years that am aware of, and we wont
be suffering their junk for much longer, they are gone, in receivership, the China engines
are sadly better than the Briggs have been for a long time, like many other brands Briggs went
from manufacturing quality engines to cutting corners to China and now on to extinction.

 

[Woodslasher]

You can on right vs wrong.
The saws were made long before any perceived statutes expired.
And they work only if the country acknowledges international law.
China seems to choose not to, on occasions. On multiple levels.
Seems some americans sure as **** don't either.
Its a personal morality thing. Some understand. Some don't.
And yes, I am judging LOL.
Again, a company using china like the whores they are is one thing.
Outright theft is something completely different.
Stihl says their design are stolen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't American saw companies "steal" a bunch of Stihl's tech when WWII hit? I think I recall reading that when WWII hit a bunch of American saw companies took advantage of that and stole Stihl's formerly US-patented "protected" tech in my "Stihl America" book, but I'd have to double check.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Briggs have not made a good engine in years that am aware of, and we wont
be suffering their junk for much longer, they are gone, in receivership, the China engines
are sadly better than the Briggs have been for a long time, like many other brands Briggs went
from manufacturing quality engines to cutting corners to China and now on to extinction.

The best briggs engines were made by Daihatsu in Japan, Vanguard Twins...when they brought manufacturing the the US it was about a year before they couldn't sell them.

Kohler isnt long either...their residential engines are junk.

Kawasaki...cant seem to keep valves in them.

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[OM617YOTA]

Just about a year ago I bought a 394 in a box, tore it down, and completely re-built it. Not the prettiest thing but it's all new where it counts. I only use it for slabbing and big bar cuts. Total cost for the PHO=$265. Then a couple weeks after I finished it I was in another shop and picked up another 394 in a box for $100.

They're out there. You just have to want to find them.

I don't think these deals actually exist but a couple times in a lifetime for someone who isn't seriously into the business, and especially anyone who flatly isn't interested in spending a bunch of time on it or collecting junk saws and stockpiling parts so they have used parts to use on basket case saws. So basically, almost everyone. I just don't think these deals are 1/100th as prevalent to normal folks as you think they are.

I'm not complaining, when I "need" a 90+ CC saw, I'll pay whatever the going rate is, happily willing to pay the $$$$ premium in exchange for the convenience.

I see why people go the Chinese knockoff route, because anyone can order one with a couple clicks, without the searching and pavement pounding. I'd still rather pay more for a used real saw.

 

[hosocat]

I was kinda on the fence about buying Chinese stuff, but its become obvious they are our future enemy. I try to avoid anything Chinese now, but good luck doing that.

Before my personal boycott I bought a huztl 200 clone a few years ago. I use it occasionally, and its holding up ok. The one thing I notice is it DRINKS gas!! I can only get 10 or 15 minutes run time before it needs fuel. I never had a real 200, so don't know how they were with fuel.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

I was kinda on the fence about buying Chinese stuff, but its become obvious they are our future enemy. I try to avoid anything Chinese now, but good luck doing that.

Before my personal boycott I bought a huztl 200 clone a few years ago. I use it occasionally, and its holding up ok. The one thing I notice is it DRINKS gas!! I can only get 10 or 15 minutes run time before it needs fuel. I never had a real 200, so don't know how they were with fuel.

About the same on fuel consumption. First time i ran one i ran it about 15 minutes and it died...the tank was full when i started. Pulled and pulled because surely it hadnt run out. It had...

Same with my old Homelite XL top handle saw, small tank and a big appetite with a lot of rpms...tank lasts about 15 minutes.

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[stihl86]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't American saw companies "steal" a bunch of Stihl's tech when WWII hit? I think I recall reading that when WWII hit a bunch of American saw companies took advantage of that and stole Stihl's formerly US-patented "protected" tech in my "Stihl America" book, but I'd have to double check.

OK.
Corporate espionage has been going on for century's.
Wrong then. Wrong now.

 

[cuinrearview]

I don't think these deals actually exist but a couple times in a lifetime for someone who isn't seriously into the business, and especially anyone who flatly isn't interested in spending a bunch of time on it or collecting junk saws and stockpiling parts so they have used parts to use on basket case saws. So basically, almost everyone. I just don't think these deals are 1/100th as prevalent to normal folks as you think they are.

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm about as "normal" as could be. I'm not "in the business", saws are just a hobby.

These were at a shop I just happened to be passing by. Stopped in and asked.



Garage sale two summers ago. I go to maybe a dozen garage sales a summer. Again, I just asked.



You guys are starting to make me think my people skills might be my super power.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Like I said, most people aren't collecting piles of junk saws and stockpiling parts.

 

[cuinrearview]

Like I said, most people aren't collecting piles of junk saws and stockpiling parts.

Neither am I. Out of those two pictures only one saw remains in my possesion.

I'm just trying to dispel all of these BS lazy arguments that these folks are using to go Chinese.

 

[cuinrearview]

Once something gets used and becomes dirty it doesn't become "junk". In the context of this thread even more so.

 

[cranman1951]

The one thing I notice is it DRINKS gas!! I can only get 10 or 15 minutes run time before it needs fuel. I never had a real 200, so don't know how they were with fuel.

As I get older, I pray for the saw to get dull or empty so I can rest while sharpening or refueling.

 

[Fatherwheels]

Neither am I. Out of those two pictures only one saw remains in my possesion.

I'm just trying to dispel all of these BS lazy arguments that these folks are using to go Chinese.

People avoid used saw here, you rarely ever see a saw worth putting money on.
All you ever get here is pure scrap, and they want over half the new price for it, simply not worth
looking at, it will fail, and by the time you sort it you would have been better off with a new one.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Neither am I. Out of those two pictures only one saw remains in my possesion.

I'm just trying to dispel all of these BS lazy arguments that these folks are using to go Chinese.

Once something gets used and becomes dirty it doesn't become "junk". In the context of this thread even more so.

You did still have to haul home and deal with nine saws. That's a huge difference vs. "See here's a real saw that only cost $200 too". I absolutely understand why people buy a $200 Chinese saw with two clicks, especially when other members here are reporting good service from them. You might more accurate claiming your saws "only cost $200, plus three hours labor."

I 90% agree with you, I'd just rather spend the $500 on a decent saw and spend the time on other things. In a week when the storm clearance is done because my saw actually ran right, I won't care about the "extra" cost. In a year I won't even remember what it cost, but the real saw will still be cutting firewood.