Three things wrong with the Holzaforma saws

[RED-85-Z51]

Local used saw market...

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[sean donato]

Local used saw market...

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I kept after a local lady's equipment for her and her husband. The one day she walked out with 3 saws from her barn and asked if I could get them running. I said sure. Stihl ms361 , mac 4900, and a poulan wild thing (49cc I'd I recall right) they looked like they had been buried in saw dust for years. Just compressed and caked on the saws. They all took several hours to get clean, but didnt need much works besides the wild thing, which needed a carb, which she didnt want to stick any money into. So that got binned, and the other 2 returned after a tune up, and new fuel lines. Oh I forgot the stihl was missing both the fuel and oil caps. Completely gone. When they moved they sold the mac 4900 off for $200.00, and kept the stihl. I couldn't believe someone would pay that kind of money for a newer plastic mac.

 

[TBS]

I don't think these deals actually exist but a couple times in a lifetime for someone who isn't seriously into the business, and especially anyone who flatly isn't interested in spending a bunch of time on it or collecting junk saws and stockpiling parts so they have used parts to use on basket case saws. So basically, almost everyone. I just don't think these deals are 1/100th as prevalent to normal folks as you think they are.

I'm not complaining, when I "need" a 90+ CC saw, I'll pay whatever the going rate is, happily willing to pay the $$$$ premium in exchange for the convenience.

I see why people go the Chinese knockoff route, because anyone can order one with a couple clicks, without the searching and pavement pounding. I'd still rather pay more for a used real saw.

They don't exist everywhere, where I live you can get any saw you want so long as it's a poulan. Now I can get a new echo 590 for less than 200 in west fresno fresh from the home depot truck but that's receiving stolen property.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

They don't exist everywhere, where I live you can get any saw you want so long as it's a poulan. Now I can get a new echo 590 for less than 200 in west fresno fresh from the home depot truck but that's receiving stolen property.

I wont tell if you wont...

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[OM617YOTA]

You bet, saw prices are hugely area dependent. The prices some people post saws for are FANTASTIC deals compared to what's here. Someone might be able to make some money just buying elsewhere and selling here.

My next saw will be something that'll pull a ~30" bar with authority. I'll pay the premium for a solid used all OEM saw when it's time. I don't have the time or interest to run around collecting basket case saws and fixing them up. If buying solid used OEM costs $500 more then so be it. In a year I won't even remember what I paid for the saw, but I'll still be running a good saw or swearing at a POS, just depends on which route I go.

 

[rarefish383]

I'm retired and really enjoy farm auctions, so if I blow a day and wind up with a running late 60's vintage Poulan Super 68 like this one, for $40, I'm a happy camper. I found a guy with a 100' roll of half inch chain and he cut me a loop for $30, on a 31" bar. But, I only use the big old saws for fun and games. I have 3 newer Stihls that are my daily use saws. I can only take the 660 for an hour or so now, and my back is shot. I was bored one night, and people had been asking me where I find nice running vintage saws? So I told them to post me their zip codes. I find most of mine at auctions on Auctionzip. I was really surprised at how regional my searches were. I fully understand how folks that don't have the time or desire to waste a day to get a $15 dollar saw. This video is my last $15 saw. i put a shot of fuel in it, it fired, filled the tank, primed again and it runs great. The owner said it hadn't been started since the 80's. I just enjoy the search.

 

[Woodslasher]

They don't exist everywhere, where I live you can get any saw you want so long as it's a poulan. Now I can get a new echo 590 for less than 200 in west fresno fresh from the home depot truck but that's receiving stolen property.

Shop's closed now, but I got most of a 461W out of one for $125, a few connections have netted me a few old 70-80cc Macs at between $5-$20 a pop, my brother bought 2 low-hour, running 2100's, 3 36 inch bars, 80 feet of .404 chain with presets, a Pioneer XL-12 clone, a plastic poulan, and a Skil top handle for $600 total, and we got a huge lot of old Macs/Homies for about $20 a saw, most had bars and chains and there were a few extra bars as well. There are deals, but connections, luck, and vigilant watching are required. Plus, being friends with saw-shop owners helps. A buddy got a practically new 462 that was straight-gassed and seized TIGHT from a True Value Stihl dealer for 50-75 bucks, he broke it loose, cleaned up the cylinder and put a new piston in it and it was a runner.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

If Stihl sold 660 full rebuild kits for $600 the foreign market would be crushed.

But they don't, so we now have smurf saws.

 

[deercatcher]

Support! Stupid, vapid contact people. (or sly) I bought a MS-200t clone. Worthless out of the box. Wuldn't pull. Put a clutch off a dead 192. Did better. Massive oil puddes where ever it sat. they asked if I had another oiler I could use.3-4 contacts, asking for a clutch and oiler. obfuscation and polite idiocy. been pulling handes, starter, shocks to keep an original going.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Support--there's a point. More & more posts on how Stihl dealers only want to sell new saws.

If the Sthil dealer 12 miles away stops selling parts I have the Stihl dealer 5 miles away that hates looking up parts and charges 2-5x list price (because it's worth it). LOL

Me: Can I buy parts for this classic, hugely popular Sthil saw?
Stihl: No. Technology advanced.
Me: It's a saw that's been in the family, it has value.
S: No, we discontinued all the parts for that saw.
Me: Can I buy a 044 full rebuild kit, so at least I have a classic saw?
S: No, too old.
Me: How about a 440?
S: No, we don't sell complete parts kits. It's far cheaper to buy a new saw.
Me: I want a reliable saw from before the EPA strangled you.
S: We sell new saws.

Chinese: We sell you saw, make you happy! All repair parts cheap!
Me: What if it breaks?
C: Buy two saws, save on shipping. Cost less than 1 saw!
Me: So basically I should forgo my history and buy two saws?
C: Buy 3, one each size, we give big discount!

Well, I still own Stihl. I am thinking of going smurfy and building one so my learning mistakes don't cost so much.

 

[edisto]

Stihl says their design are stolen.

That's a little funny, given that Stihl's big break was their "Pioneering" design on the Contra/Lightning...

 

[Yukon Stihl]

That's a little funny, given that Stihl's big break was their "Pioneering" design on the Contra/Lightning...

View attachment 890832

Yea too bad it was the other way around... Good try at a story though

 

[bwalker]

Never underestimate the average Americans desire to buy gobs of Chinese made junk..

 

[edisto]

Yea too bad it was the other way around...

Take a peek at the RA...

I have heard the less nefarious rumor that engineers from Pioneer actually worked with Stihl on the Contra design.

 

[redpowerd]

You have to be realistic getting into the project. Unless they're peanuts throw away Stihls and Echos aren't your best choice until you build a stock of parts. Trying to flip saws that only sell for $250 is never a good idea.

The Dolmar 51xx is a perfect example. I build them because I love them, not because it makes financial sense. You can build a stock of parts buying the lesser saws on the same chassis. The Xhinese are just starting to poorly copy some parts for them but I already have collected 460s, 510s, 5100s, and 5105s.View attachment 890111

What names are the dolmar clones selling under? I could have sworn i seen a 51 style dolmar cloned but cant for the life of me find it again. Im sure these will be the next mfg to be copied, and maybe better than the horsefarmer clones, seein as makita is done huffin petrol... unless they pass their gas saw mfg to another name.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Design, material and workmanship

Design should be good since they stole it from Stihl and Husqvarna.

 

[ammoaddict]

Design should be good since they stole it from Stihl and Husqvarna.

They call it reverse engineering.

 

[camel2019]

...back on topic. My clones run well.
Milling, bucking, logging, for years.
Very few problems whatsoever.
Each clone I have I also have the real deal version, except the 440.
372, 660 , 440.
I don't buy the clones because they are so much cheaper, that is not the main issue for me.
I enjoy tinkering, and I have picked up several half assembled saws, often put together wrong, and now 3 of them have been assembled with the help of a 9yo girl, who loved the experience, and has a better record of correct chainsaw repair than my local shop:/
They are not the greatest thing in the world, I still use my 661 every day.
the OEM reliability is probably better, but again.
Curiosity, teaching tool, and a good big saw for someone who only uses it 3x a year, or mills, & doesn't have usd1360 for a new 661.

The 661 here in Canada is almost $2000

 

[singinwoodwackr]

I still like my G372XP and G660. Can't find a beat up 660 local for what i have in both of them.

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Buy a spare intake boot for each...you'll need them.

 

[fields_mj]

There are several reasons I'm willing to buy a Chinese knock off of the older saws even though they are ripping off the OEM. First reason is that the companies don't give a rip about the end user. The greedy %@$$*^#*$ business practices require dealers to prioritize selling new saws instead of property repairing older saws to keep them running. There are exceptions, but the techs at most dealerships flat out suck because the dealership can't afford to pay them what a truely skilled repair tech is worth which brings me to my 2nd point. I don't want electronics in my chainsaw. I cut wood for heat, and a chainsaw or 2 will last me a lifetime. I'm not interested in electronics that fail just due to age causing problems that are difficult to diagnose, especially by the poorly trained, inexperienced techs at the dealership. I want an efficient saw with a simple design and the OEMs no longer offer that option. They yielded to the EPAs demands despite the fact that the US government has no constitutional authority from which to make such regulations. If the OEMs are willing to just roll over, why in the heck would I try to prioritize supporting them with MY business decisions? That's just feeding the cancer that has been eating us from the inside out for the past 50 years or more. 3rd is obviously cost. 4 of my 5 Stihl saws cost me $200 to $250 each ( used ) in good running condition. My 064 cost me $375. I've had them all for several years and now they are getting hard to find on the used market. So, in my price range, I can buy a used newer saw with EPA compliant electronics that will go bad in the next 10 years just due to age, or I can buy a Chinese clone that is likely to give me another 20 years or more. Heck, if I'm willing to stock some spare parts from my Stihl dealership, the saws will likely outlast a new Stihl just because of the ease of repairs.

In short, I'm willing to buy a Chinese saw because the major OEMs have utterly abandoned the portions of the market that most people happen to fall into.