Tick questions

[Mad Professor]

Ticks are really bad here right now as are fleas and I haven’t seen fleas like this in years! Be careful out there.

The last 3 years each summer the cat got fleas even though she had frontline treatment. She would bring them in and they would get into the rugs furniture before the frontline got to them, then they looked for fresh meat. I'm not sure what was carrying them outside? Fleas can be bad as they are plague vectors.

The permethrin spray will also work on carpets/couches for fleas. In fact they sell it for that purpose but the diluted stuff is ~ $20 gallon. TSC carries the carpet/couch spray.

Again it is not cat friendly so let things dry before you let kitty back.

One more thing on permethrin, it kills most insects, bad and good. That's why I won't use it as a broadcast spray in my yard. I have a lot of beneficial (ladybugs, parasitic wasps, dragonflies, bees, praying mantis, etc....) that I want to help me combat the nasties

 

[TRTermite]

I read that the possum eats TICKS as their main diet. No one seems to like a possum but they can decimate a tick infestation.
I have seen ticks fly/glide like a flying squirrel to score a meal.
Years ago a friend told me not to squeeze ticks with pliers as that helps spread (propagate) them, He had been pulling them off of his farm dogs for the last few years and putting them in a plastic pop bottle and put the cap back on.. Next day they are dead as in exploded, doesn't matter what size or how many (or few) you put in the bottle. My friends analogy for this is the tick is allergic to its own breath and its blood or gizzards have baby ticks or tick eggs or something.
My vet disagrees and infers my notion is merely a wives tale,
I do know the ticks do not survive the bottle treatment and my 2 acre yard was virtually tick free for a long time . I had 3 German Shepherds then. I moved away and after sitting empty for ten years they are back.
Other people have said if one is attached to put nail polish remover on it and the area around it The tick will back out and the bite area doesn't itch... I get impatient and can't say if it works but my friends swear to it
I walked a friends fence line last week to check fence for his cows (Health wouldn't let him) and through the rough / wet / cedars/ hedge It took 2 hours and I got done using my flashlight When I got home I had a couple hundred ticks on me They are bad this year. Needless to say I had my wife help with the ones on my back.... was finding a tick here and there until 3 that morning and had 3 find me later that I am sure were waiting in the truck from the ride home.

 

[Mad Professor]

I read that the possum eats TICKS as their main diet. No one seems to like a possum but they can decimate a tick infestation.
I have seen ticks fly/glide like a flying squirrel to score a meal.
Years ago a friend told me not to squeeze ticks with pliers as that helps spread (propagate) them, He had been pulling them off of his farm dogs for the last few years and putting them in a plastic pop bottle and put the cap back on.. Next day they are dead as in exploded, doesn't matter what size or how many (or few) you put in the bottle. My friends analogy for this is the tick is allergic to its own breath and its blood or gizzards have baby ticks or tick eggs or something.
My vet disagrees and infers my notion is merely a wives tale,
I do know the ticks do not survive the bottle treatment and my 2 acre yard was virtually tick free for a long time . I had 3 German Shepherds then. I moved away and after sitting empty for ten years they are back.
Other people have said if one is attached to put nail polish remover on it and the area around it The tick will back out and the bite area doesn't itch... I get impatient and can't say if it works but my friends swear to it
I walked a friends fence line last week to check fence for his cows (Health wouldn't let him) and through the rough / wet / cedars/ hedge It took 2 hours and I got done using my flashlight When I got home I had a couple hundred ticks on me They are bad this year. Needless to say I had my wife help with the ones on my back.... was finding a tick here and there until 3 that morning and had 3 find me later that I am sure were waiting in the truck from the ride home.

You need to spray down some clothes with permethrin. Ticks don't fly.

I had a tick on my back I could not get at, just had attached itself. I showered real well and lots of sudsy soap on the tick. I went to the ER to get it plucked as no one was close by to pull it. The ER people said the tick was already dead, the soapy water drowned it.

 

[TRTermite]

Ticks don't fly.

I have seen ticks fly/glide like a flying squirrel to score a meal.

Squirrels don't really fly and ticks either so maybe that was the reason for the fly/glide phrase I thought it would help the reader visualize a tick Falling out of a tree and somehow end up landing umpteen feet away from where gravity should have prevailed

You need to spray down some clothes with permethrin.

I hesitate to use Permethrin.
Allergies prevent me from using Off and many soaps I consider you fortunate.

 

[CentaurG2]

The last 3 years each summer the cat got fleas even though she had frontline treatment. She would bring them in and they would get into the rugs furniture before the frontline got to them, then they looked for fresh meat. I'm not sure what was carrying them outside? Fleas can be bad as they are plague vectors.

Bubonic plague……Yucky!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague


I am not sure what is carrying the fleas but they are terrible this year. I think the last time I have seen them this bad was 1986. Chickens are doing a good job on tick patrol but step outside their range and the ticks are on you like flys on crap.

 

[president]

Back in the old days when we had good gasoline I would wash my hands and arms when I gassed up the saws. Never got bit by anything. So much rain here the bugs aren’t fully out yet. Just tics here and there.

straight gassed! I,m appalled!

 

[Mad Professor]

Squirrels don't really fly and ticks either so maybe that was the reason for the fly/glide phrase I thought it would help the reader visualize a tick Falling out of a tree and somehow end up landing umpteen feet away from where gravity should have prevailed

I hesitate to use Permethrin.
Allergies prevent me from using Off and many soaps I consider you fortunate.

Off has DEET, it melts plastic and I stopped using that. Picaradin is a great alternative to DEET, for skin repellents.

The US services have been using permethrin since the 1980s on BDUs. They actually immerse the uniforms in a solution.

Ticks do not go into trees. Just grass brush shrubs, maybe as high as chest level. Most are below waist level. Their legs are like the hooks on burdocks/velcro. Once they hitch a ride they will climb to find a good place to feed.

I've found them behind ears, scalp, arm/leg, chest, groin/crotch (not attached yet thank God). The worst ones were on the middle of my back where I could not get to them to remove.

You have to be careful removing them especially if they are embedded. Squeezing them may make them puke infected matter into the bite. Clean the bite with soapy water, then rubbing alcohol or betadine/provadone/iodine. Get a script for doxy from a doctor.

 

[Mad Professor]

One more thing, there are several other bacteria that are transmitted by ticks besides Lyme, doxy takes care of those also.

Even worse is a tick borne virus for which there is no treatment and can be fatal, Powassan.

https://www.cdc.gov/powassan/index.html

 

[Big Red Oaks 4 me]

I have been treated for lyme years ago when I got a bite but never saw the tick. They pumped me full of doxycycline with an IV for a few hours then oral for a month.

If you get bit don't wait for symptoms, get on two weeks of oral doxycycline. If your doctor will prescribe a few extra it's good to have in case you can't get to a doctor for a script right away. It has a 1 year shelf life so don't use old pills. The last time the pharmacy screwed up and when I got home found I had enough pills for 3 two week treatments. The extra came in handy when I got bit this spring. The quicker you treat it the less chance you have of getting an infection.

The permethrin sprays for clothing work great. I spray down 2 or 3 sets of work clothes so I can always have clean/treated clothes in the woods. The Sawyer product works great but is expensive. A doctor recommended the concentrate (10% Gordons) sold at TSC, dilute it 20 fold (0.5%) and spray on just like the Sawyers. TSC also has nice 1-quart sprayers. Make sure it ONLY has permethrin. One quart is $20 and dilutes to make 5 gallons of spray. Sawyers is ~$15 for less than a quart. Don't let cats come in contact with permethrin or treated clothes/areas until it dries; it is toxic to cats.

Permethrin can also be used to control other pests and is used in barns with livestock; works great on fleas. Every spring my old farmhouse gets an invasion with ants, I spray down the foundation with permethrin. The other thing that takes care of ants are bait traps with boric acid. Make up a solution with sugar and put those out where ants are trailing, the ants will drink the solution and bring it back to their nest. Much less expensive than commercial ant traps. You can get boric acid at the pharmacy, it is used as an eye wash, and an ingredient in Visiense (sp?)

I was skeptical of permethrin at first. I treated some pants then went into a tick infested area. I picked up a deer tick near my ankle then observed it. The tick crawled almost to my knee then stopped, after about a minute it started to twitch then fell off dead. It works.

Even with treated clothes check yourself well after being outside, use a mirror for your back. If your clothes are not treated put them in a garbage bag until you can wash them. Check yourself well in the shower.

I have never got a tick bite when wearing my treated clothes; socks, pants, shirt. I have got ticks from my cat when she brought them in and jumped up on my lap. Same problem with dogs. A friend had ticks in his truck courtesy of his spaniel.

You can also make your own treated cotton balls as mentioned by Lone Wolf. Mice are a bigger carrier of deer ticks than deer. Put the treated cotton ball inside empty TP or paper towel rolls. The mice will line their nests with the cotton and kill the ticks. You will need quite a few of these to be effective.

In my barns/outbuilding I just kill the mice with "spinning bottle/water bucket traps". They work great, bait with peanut butter, and just dump out the drowned mice.

View attachment 740943

Ticks are a problem on deer. I hunt and you have to be very careful when dressing out a deer. If you are going to keep/tan the hide, spray it down with permethrin after skinning them, salt (non-iodized for hair on) , and bag the skin.

They have made deer feeding stations with permethrin treated paint rollers built so the deer have to contact the rollers to get at the corn. Sort of the same idea as
"dusters" they hang in cow barn doors. I don't like feeding deer, it concentrates the deer and can help spread CWD in infected areas.

Also try to keep fields mowed and cut back brushy areas near you home. Ticks crawl up grass/shrubs and when an animal brushes by they hitch a ride.

I'm in the northeast, and as a child I was out in the woods always hunting/fishing/exploring, unless I had to be in school. I never even saw a tick. They got here mid 1980s and are an infestation now.

Doxycycline is what I am currently taking.

 

[Mad Professor]

Doxycycline is what I am currently taking.

2 weeks for normal treatment, 100mg twice a day.

When I had it for a while, the doc pumped me with an IV then another month of oral

 

[lone wolf]

One more thing, there are several other bacteria that are transmitted by ticks besides Lyme, doxy takes care of those also.

Even worse is a tick borne virus for which there is no treatment and can be fatal, Powassan.

https://www.cdc.gov/powassan/index.html

Got Permethrin?

 

[Big Red Oaks 4 me]

2 weeks for normal treatment, 100mg twice a day.

When I had it for a while, the doc pumped me with an IV then another month of oral

Mine is twice a day for 10 days. 7 days left. Antibiotics always make me feel better, regardless.

 

[Big Red Oaks 4 me]

Ticks get worse every year around here. I'm a little hard-headed, and should take better precautions, but I will go outside for a little while, and end-up doing something else, until I've been out there long enough to get mosquitoes, mayflies, and ticks. They all like me too much.

 

[ATH]

.... They say if you get bitten and remove the tick within 24 hours, you will not get Lyme's, apparently it takes a few days for the infection to "take" (might want to check that).

That is because you get Lyme disease from the tick's feces. It needs to eat enough to become engorged enough. It lays down a deuce on you and when that gets in the break in your skin that the tick made, the disease is spread...at least that is what a PhD entomologist said in the talk I was at this spring

 

[Mad Professor]

That is because you get Lyme disease from the tick's feces. It needs to eat enough to become engorged enough. It lays down a deuce on you and when that gets in the break in your skin that the tick made, the disease is spread...at least that is what a PhD entomologist said in the talk I was at this spring

The "few days to take" has been refuted. If you get bit get treatment ASAP. Besides lyme there are other tick borne illnesses and you can have one , the other, or co-infections.

 

[Mad Professor]

Got Permethrin?

Yup! 1-quart makes 5-gallons of spray. $20 at TSC

 

[Mad Professor]

More info:

https://www.ilads.org/dr-burrascano-happy-holidays/

 

[ATH]

The "few days to take" has been refuted. If you get bit get treatment ASAP. Besides lyme there are other tick borne illnesses and you can have one , the other, or co-infections.

So every time somebody finds a black-legged tick in them, you think they should get treated with antibiotics? We don't have then in NW Ohio, but my friends in E. and SE Ohio working in forestry find multiple ticks in them EVERY day during the season. With permethrin. With DEET. With gators on their ankles and pants tucked into their boots.

Is there any evidence that infection happens with the first 12-24 hours? I agree it doesn't take a "few days", but everything I have seen says it takes about 24 hours before there is possibility of infection.

 

[lone wolf]

So every time somebody finds a black-legged tick in them, you think they should get treated with antibiotics? We don't have then in NW Ohio, but my friends in E. and SE Ohio working in forestry find multiple ticks in them EVERY day during the season. With permethrin. With DEET. With gators on their ankles and pants tucked into their boots.

Is there any evidence that infection happens with the first 12-24 hours? I agree it doesn't take a "few days", but everything I have seen says it takes about 24 hours before there is possibility of infection.

Well considering a lifetime of crippling effects! I would if I was not allergic. Ticks are the worst!

 

[Mad Professor]

So every time somebody finds a black-legged tick in them, you think they should get treated with antibiotics? We don't have then in NW Ohio, but my friends in E. and SE Ohio working in forestry find multiple ticks in them EVERY day during the season. With permethrin. With DEET. With gators on their ankles and pants tucked into their boots.

Is there any evidence that infection happens with the first 12-24 hours? I agree it doesn't take a "few days", but everything I have seen says it takes about 24 hours before there is possibility of infection.

http://danielcameronmd.com/long-take-infected-tick-transmit-lyme-disease/

"Patmas and Remora reported on a case of Lyme disease that was transmitted after only 6 hours of attachment by a deer tick. The authors concluded that, “The current recommendation against treatment of shortduration tick bites may need reconsideration.”(1994)"

https://www.lymedisease.org/hard-science-on-lyme-ticks-can-transmit-infection-the-first-day/

From a peer reviewed Medical Journal

Int J Gen Med. 2015; 8: 1–8.
Published online 2014 Dec 19. doi: 10.2147/IJGM.S73791


"Abstract
Lyme borreliosis is increasing rapidly in many parts of the world and is the most commonly occurring vector-borne disease in Europe and the USA. The disease is transmitted by ticks of the genus Ixodes. They require a blood meal at each stage of their life cycle and feed on a wide variety of wild and domestic animals as well as birds and reptiles. Transmission to humans is incidental and can occur during visits to a vector habitat, when host mammals and their associated ticks migrate into the urban environment, or when companion animals bring ticks into areas of human habitation. It is frequently stated that the risk of infection is very low if the tick is removed within 24–48 hours, with some claims that there is no risk if an attached tick is removed within 24 hours or 48 hours. A literature review has determined that in animal models, transmission can occur in <16 hours, and the minimum attachment time for transmission of infection has never been established. Mechanisms for early transmission of spirochetes have been proposed based on their presence in different organs of the tick. Studies have found systemic infection and the presence of spirochetes in the tick salivary glands prior to feeding, which could result in cases of rapid transmission. Also, there is evidence that spirochete transmission times and virulence depend upon the tick and Borrelia species. These factors support anecdotal evidence that Borrelia infection can occur in humans within a short time after tick attachment."

"A European study documented six cases of culture-confirmed infection where tick attachment was <6 hours and nine cases where transmission occurred in <24 hours." Strle F, Nelson JA, Ruzic-Sabljic E, et al. European Lyme Borreliosis: 231 culture-confirmed cases involving patients with erythema migrans. Clin Infect Dis. 1996;23(1):61–65.

"Conclusion
The claims that removal of ticks within 24 hours or 48 hours of attachment will effectively prevent LB are not supported by the published data, and the minimum tick attachment time for transmission of LB in humans has never been established."

"Therefore, LB infection can never be excluded after a tick bite irrespective of the estimated duration of attachment time."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4278789/