Toppers

[lxt]

teamtree.............good post!!

LXT.......

 

[clearance]

But

You are not allowed to use the ISA logo without supplying your name and number also. This is against the ISA rules. The person to report you to for this violation is Ann Jerutka at 217-355-9411 ext 207.

I ain't going to report you, I couldn't care less, but with all them letters behind your name I think you should know this.

 

[teamtree]

I think the idea is that over time the plan will come together and generally produce a better industry- through fines and more education. Old school hatrackers will eventually fade as people adopt better ways. Of course that wont work if everyone just caves in right off I suppose. Not that I really care.

I don't give in right off the bat and I do care. I am just saying it is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. I wish I could walk away from what the customers want despite being educated.

My dad tops his trees every year and they come back every year just as pretty as he likes. I would not go to some school and say top all your trees, but if some little lady down the street wants her trees trimmed every 2 years like her late husband has done for 40 years, who is really being hurt????

All I am saying is do what you can to persuade and educate the public and let everything else fall in place.

I have also found that when you tell someone right off the bat that if they want their trees topped that you are not interested in doing that kind of work then they listen to what you have to say...but sometimes it does no good.

 

[tree MDS]

Thats some real sweet sugar-coating there teamtree, what flavor is that?? B.S. ?? No just bustin! Good post I'll rep that, lol.

 

[BCMA]

I would like to qualify myself by saying there are exceptions to the rule of "no topping". I do not have the time to go into all the various scenarios at this time.

The word “topping” is used loosely, and may be confused with legitimate types of pruning for various situations, reasons, and effects.
What I’m talking about is when a perfectly healthy, vigorous, non-violated mature trees are topped indiscriminately. I’m talking about taking a large healthy tree and making 8, or 10, or 12 inch cuts, and removing 35 feet or so. Exposing the tree to die-back, heart-rot, excessive sprouts, etc.

Here are some attachments of pictures I’ve taken of some topping jobs. Not mine of course.

Remember, there are many scenarios of various pruning types. Heading-cuts, proper reduction cuts (drop-crotch), subordination cuts are not necessarily “topping”.

What about height reduction for vistas?

What about mitigating hazards or tree defects?

These pictures are pictures of “topping”.

 

[masterarbor]

Those are some fine looking coat racks!

 

[treeseer]

"ive had people tell me top my maple and make a ball out of it......so I crown reduce & pull ends all to laterals 1/3rd!! "

Sounds like a reasonable compromise. The crap about "The Customer is always right" and "I gotta eat" and "If I don't do it..." shows little concern for integrity.

 

[clearance]

shows little concern for integrity.

Topping trees is not in the same category as lying, cheating and stealing. Or driving while impaired, kicking a dog and a host of other things.

All it is is doing an improper tree service practice. Actually if there is a good reason, like a powerline or a view, there is nothing wrong with it.

Using the word integrity like you are here is misuse of the English langauge.

 

[Jlarnard]

Topping trees is not in the same category as lying, cheating and stealing. Or driving while impaired, kicking a dog and a host of other things.

All it is is doing an improper tree service practice. Actually if there is a good reason, like a powerline or a view, there is nothing wrong with it.

Using the word integrity like you are here is misuse of the English langauge.

Kicking dogs is bad?

 

[Bearcreek]

Thank you for the kind words and welcome.

Illustration: Last week I went to three doctors to talk to them about the maintenance and care of my fingernails. I told them I was tired of cleaning and clipping my nails, and that I wanted to have my fingers removed at the second knuckle. Regardless of how much I tried to persuade the doctors to cut off my fingers, and regardless of how much money I offered to pay them for this service, each doctor declined to cut off my fingers. Think of how much money they could have made!

Just like I could not persuade a doctor to cut off my fingers (malpractice), I will not be party to providing arboriculture services that are not according to industry standards, or that are not in the best interest of our clients.
Our industry will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be considered a professional industry and command the respect it deserves until we as an industry make some changes. I'm sorry to say that I'm appalled at some of the things I read on these "tree care forums". It only confirms my feelings when I have to apologize to a client for the miss-treatment, wrong information, or lack of integrity they received from our profession.

Here are some items I would like to see our industry adopt on a state and national level. At this point, in most states the only requirements necessary to become a tree care provider/climber/contractor/weekend warrior is a chain saw, pickup truck, and a Rottweiler. If we want our profession to be viewed by the public as a professional industry (which it is) some changes are needed.

1. All states require a competency license to companies providing tree care services. This license would test knowledge and practice, and insure all provides carry the proper liability insurance and workman’s compensation. Hefty fines for violations! The TCIA has a fantastic accreditation program, which I recommend to everyone.

2. No more “moonlighting”. Our company has a policy that disallows moonlighting and may be grounds for termination.

3. All companies and individuals be required to operate within the guidelines of OSHA and ANSI requirements. We as an industry are experiencing too many accidents and deaths. I know of personally of three “professional” climbers killed in our area, and one seriously hurt. All four accidents preventable with proper training, or following industry safety standards. I see some of the pictures posted on the website and see the PPE violations and wonder about the rest of the operation. BTW, OSHA can issue fines from pictures alone! Consider becoming a TCIA Certified Treecare Safety Professional.

Folks, I’m not trying to be a “stick in the mud”. I’ve worked hard at my profession as an arborist. I’ve tried to avail myself to every program, society, association, certification, training program, whatever to increase the professionalism of our company, myself individually, and the industry in our area. Should we settle of anything less?

Well, you could just move to a communist country. That way the government can tell you everything you can and can't do. Sound's like what we'd continue to head for if your changes are implemented.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Kicking dogs is bad?

Lol. Where I come from we swerve at em' and door em', roll baby roll!!!!!!!!

 

[Nailsbeats]

Thank you for the kind words and welcome.

Illustration: Last week I went to three doctors to talk to them about the maintenance and care of my fingernails. I told them I was tired of cleaning and clipping my nails, and that I wanted to have my fingers removed at the second knuckle. Regardless of how much I tried to persuade the doctors to cut off my fingers, and regardless of how much money I offered to pay them for this service, each doctor declined to cut off my fingers. Think of how much money they could have made!

Just like I could not persuade a doctor to cut off my fingers (malpractice), I will not be party to providing arboriculture services that are not according to industry standards, or that are not in the best interest of our clients.
Our industry will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be considered a professional industry and command the respect it deserves until we as an industry make some changes. I'm sorry to say that I'm appalled at some of the things I read on these "tree care forums". It only confirms my feelings when I have to apologize to a client for the miss-treatment, wrong information, or lack of integrity they received from our profession.

Here are some items I would like to see our industry adopt on a state and national level. At this point, in most states the only requirements necessary to become a tree care provider/climber/contractor/weekend warrior is a chain saw, pickup truck, and a Rottweiler. If we want our profession to be viewed by the public as a professional industry (which it is) some changes are needed.

1. All states require a competency license to companies providing tree care services. This license would test knowledge and practice, and insure all provides carry the proper liability insurance and workman’s compensation. Hefty fines for violations! The TCIA has a fantastic accreditation program, which I recommend to everyone.

2. No more “moonlighting”. Our company has a policy that disallows moonlighting and may be grounds for termination.

3. All companies and individuals be required to operate within the guidelines of OSHA and ANSI requirements. We as an industry are experiencing too many accidents and deaths. I know of personally of three “professional” climbers killed in our area, and one seriously hurt. All four accidents preventable with proper training, or following industry safety standards. I see some of the pictures posted on the website and see the PPE violations and wonder about the rest of the operation. BTW, OSHA can issue fines from pictures alone! Consider becoming a TCIA Certified Treecare Safety Professional.

Folks, I’m not trying to be a “stick in the mud”. I’ve worked hard at my profession as an arborist. I’ve tried to avail myself to every program, society, association, certification, training program, whatever to increase the professionalism of our company, myself individually, and the industry in our area. Should we settle of anything less?

Sounds like you're one step away from wiping your a$$ with gold toilet paper, must be nice.

 

[tree MDS]

I would like to qualify myself by saying there are exceptions to the rule of "no topping". I do not have the time to go into all the various scenarios at this time.

The word “topping” is used loosely, and may be confused with legitimate types of pruning for various situations, reasons, and effects.
What I’m talking about is when a perfectly healthy, vigorous, non-violated mature trees are topped indiscriminately. I’m talking about taking a large healthy tree and making 8, or 10, or 12 inch cuts, and removing 35 feet or so. Exposing the tree to die-back, heart-rot, excessive sprouts, etc.

Here are some attachments of pictures I’ve taken of some topping jobs. Not mine of course.

Remember, there are many scenarios of various pruning types. Heading-cuts, proper reduction cuts (drop-crotch), subordination cuts are not necessarily “topping”.

What about height reduction for vistas?

What about mitigating hazards or tree defects?

These pictures are pictures of “topping”.

I like the fith pic down. They even hatracked the hedges, lol.

 

[treemandan]

I don't give in right off the bat and I do care. I am just saying it is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. I wish I could walk away from what the customers want despite being educated.

My dad tops his trees every year and they come back every year just as pretty as he likes. I would not go to some school and say top all your trees, but if some little lady down the street wants her trees trimmed every 2 years like her late husband has done for 40 years, who is really being hurt????

All I am saying is do what you can to persuade and educate the public and let everything else fall in place.

I have also found that when you tell someone right off the bat that if they want their trees topped that you are not interested in doing that kind of work then they listen to what you have to say...but sometimes it does no good.

Yup.

 

[Blakesmaster]

You can look in any blue collar industry and see the same thing regardless of regulations. There's still shoddy carpentry, masonry, plumbing, etc. and those industries have been around much longer than ours. I'm sure they have plenty of regulations and "societies" that require everything to be done a certain way and people still price shop those categories as well. IMO, HO's have three options...

-Look for the absolute best...equipment, training, accreditation, etc. and pay for it.

-Look for good work from guys that know their job and just haven't spent the time or money getting little certificates that say so and pay a fair price.

-Look for the cheapest and get what you pay for.

Yup.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Yup.

Yup.......

 

[BCMA]

Last week I went to three doctors to talk to them about the maintenance and care of my fingernails. I told them I was tired of cleaning and clipping my nails, and that I wanted to have my fingers removed at the second knuckle. Regardless of how much I tried to persuade the doctors to cut off my fingers, and regardless of how much money I offered to pay them for this service, each doctor declined to cut off my fingers. Think of how much money they could have made!

Today has been my lucky day...! Today I got my fingers cut off! I mentioned in a previous post that I've been to some doctors to have my fingers cut off (read the above post). Well, today we had a doctor in our neighborhood going door to door looking for some work. He said that he was slow at the office today, and that he needed some extra money. I explained to him my dilemma about my fingernails, and that I wanted my fingers cut of at the second knuckle. At first he was hesitant to cut my fingers off until I explained to him that they were my fingers, and that I could do with them what I want! I also told him that if he did not cut off my fingers, I would go to someone else, and they would get the money! He said, “No problem, I’m your man!” I think his card read, “Have knife-will travel”.

Before the operation I asked him about his credentials. He seemed about a little irritated that I would question his credentials and experience. I was curious about his college education, certifications, accreditations, continuing education, insurances, you-know, stuff like that. Now, don’t get me wrong—not that it is important that a doctor would have to go through all this education and insurance stuff! Let’s get real, this guy told me that all that education crap was just for those sophisticated- stuffy- white coated- brainless- doctors that thought that they were better than “us-guys” out trying to make a living! About this time I had to try to calm him down a little. He then told me that he has been cutting fingers off for a long time, and had probably cut off more fingers that all the doctors in town combined! I asked him about his insurance and said that he could not afford insurance because he normally just worked evenings or on weekends. But, he assured me that he could do the job, and he would be a lot cheaper not having to carry all that overhead.

I was beginning to question if I should really go through with this until he assured me that this would be to my benefit. If I had my fingers cut off, I would not have to clip or clean the finger nails; there would be no more tendency to flip the finger; and I would no longer have to worry about slamming them in the car door! Lower risk!! So, he talked me into it, and I had them cut off for about half the price of the other doctors in town. Actually, the other doctors in town would not even give me a price to cut off the fingers! They told me that it was against their professional standards and personal ethics. Imagine that! What gall!

The doctor did a really good job of cutting my fingers off. But now I’m getting a little confused. My friends are telling me that I never should have done this, and that my hand will never be the same. They also told me about the infections that can set in, and I’m having a hard time typing. I have tried to call the doctor, but he won’t answer his phone. I hope I did the right thing.

 

[Jlarnard]

Like sands in the hourglass....

 

[Nailsbeats]

Today has been my lucky day...! Today I got my fingers cut off! I mentioned in a previous post that I've been to some doctors to have my fingers cut off (read the above post). Well, today we had a doctor in our neighborhood going door to door looking for some work. He said that he was slow at the office today, and that he needed some extra money. I explained to him my dilemma about my fingernails, and that I wanted my fingers cut of at the second knuckle. At first he was hesitant to cut my fingers off until I explained to him that they were my fingers, and that I could do with them what I want! I also told him that if he did not cut off my fingers, I would go to someone else, and they would get the money! He said, “No problem, I’m your man!” I think his card read, “Have knife-will travel”.

Before the operation I asked him about his credentials. He seemed about a little irritated that I would question his credentials and experience. I was curious about his college education, certifications, accreditations, continuing education, insurances, you-know, stuff like that. Now, don’t get me wrong—not that it is important that a doctor would have to go through all this education and insurance stuff! Let’s get real, this guy told me that all that education crap was just for those sophisticated- stuffy- white coated- brainless- doctors that thought that they were better than “us-guys” out trying to make a living! About this time I had to try to calm him down a little. He then told me that he has been cutting fingers off for a long time, and had probably cut off more fingers that all the doctors in town combined! I asked him about his insurance and said that he could not afford insurance because he normally just worked evenings or on weekends. But, he assured me that he could do the job, and he would be a lot cheaper not having to carry all that overhead.

I was beginning to question if I should really go through with this until he assured me that this would be to my benefit. If I had my fingers cut off, I would not have to clip or clean the finger nails; there would be no more tendency to flip the finger; and I would no longer have to worry about slamming them in the car door! Lower risk!! So, he talked me into it, and I had them cut off for about half the price of the other doctors in town. Actually, the other doctors in town would not even give me a price to cut off the fingers! They told me that it was against their professional standards and personal ethics. Imagine that! What gall!

The doctor did a really good job of cutting my fingers off. But now I’m getting a little confused. My friends are telling me that I never should have done this, and that my hand will never be the same. They also told me about the infections that can set in, and I’m having a hard time typing. I have tried to call the doctor, but he won’t answer his phone. I hope I did the right thing.

Plant new fingers and burn the old ones, dipsh!t.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I wanna see you reattach a broken branch.