Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

[TNTreeHugger]

You see, I am infamous for picking on folk's comments, pointing out insignificant facts, and sometimes bickering endlessly about a topic. I'd like to think I have improved myself considerably in that respect, but that doesn't change my history, nor my detractor's sense of retribution due.

True that!

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I'm going to guess you don't have much experience with pesticide surfactants. What's in a surfactant that makes 'em dry shiny, anyway?

Kindly tell me what brand you have used that remains shiny when dry. Particularly when applied at 0.00001224 teaspoons per square inch to an oak leaf.

I wonder how bad that leaf would curl up if hit with a double dose?

So then what is causing the sheen?

I'm seeing a pattern and it appears that the effect on the leaf has to do with the stage of growth at the time it was hit.
I could be off, but I don't think so.
I also saw this mentioned in the warnings of some of the labels, to not spray the post-emergent at a specifice stage in the crop growth.
That would explain the various degrees of damage on the various leaves on various species.
Don't you think that's possible?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

https://www.lodigrowers.com/download/pest_management/Elmore_Herbicide_Unknownyear.pdf

 

[ATpro]

I'm seeing a pattern and it appears that the effect on the leaf has to do with the stage of growth at the time it was hit.

Certain plants will react different, glyphosate (generic roundup) shouldn't affect woody tree trunks since it's 90% absorbed by the leave but spray it on the ground around some Confederate Roses and watch what happens. Spray around bees and they will leave the hive and look for a new home. Check your yard and see if you see bees.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Certain plants will react different, glyphosate (generic roundup) shouldn't affect woody tree trunks since it's 90% absorbed by the leave but spray it on the ground around some Confederate Roses and watch what happens. Spray around bees and they will leave the hive and look for a new home. Check your yard and see if you see bees.

Now that you mention it, no I don't see bees.
I intentionally held off mowing until a few days ago because of all the white clover blooming, I'm trying to encourage it's spread as a ground cover. I didn't mow the entire yard, glad I didn't so the inspector can see it.
While sitting by the pond, before I mowed, enjoying the sight and aroma of all the clover, I saw ONE bee.
But, there are still plenty of wasps, carpenter bees, and I even have another hornet nest in a birdhouse gourd.

 

[farmer steve]

So then what is causing the sheen?

I'm seeing a pattern and it appears that the effect on the leaf has to do with the stage of growth at the time it was hit.
I could be off, but I don't think so.
I also saw this mentioned in the warnings of some of the labels, to not spray the post-emergent at a specifice stage in the crop growth.
That would explain the various degrees of damage on the various leaves on various species.
Don't you think that's possible?

Spraying at a certain size of crop growth is because of how effective or not that the herbicide is. We have marestail here and it is hard to kill if you let it get big but if you spray it when in the early growth stage it can be controlled. Also the degree of damage is relative to the dose of chemical. For example an ounce of roundup may not be effective on a particular weed but when you bump the dose up to 3 ounces it will kill it. I may do a test with some straight surfactant on some oak leaves later today if it doesn't rain.

 

[ATpro]

For example an ounce of roundup may not be effective on a particular weed but when you bump the dose up to 3 ounces it will kill it.

Yep, use 1oz roundup and 1/2oz triclopyr to the gallon to spray fields at a fast pace where I want to control woody brush and broad leaf and knock the grass back so I don't spend all that time bush hogging, doesn't kill the bahia grass just stunts it. You have to be careful with the roundup and not spray when the grass is short but at least a foot high or you may kill it. I use triclopyr on fire lanes because I want grass to grow to help with erosion.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Just talked to my friend who works at the sod farm.
I mentioned that I had been concerned about the redbuds not blooming this year, that I thought it was due to the frost.
He said he's seen them blooming elsewhere... and then mentioned they (mine) won't have any seed pods this year.
I hadn't thought of that.
So, that could mean my pecan, hickory, buckeye, and walnuts won't produce either?
The pecans are loaded with the seed thingies now and the buckeye had flowers a few weeks ago. They are brown now. I'll have a closer look and take a pic.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Now there is an expression that shows some experience. I've not heard that before, but it sure seems to fit the situation.

"chemical trespass"

No, it doesn't even come close.
This is far more serious and traumatic than a simple "trespass."
This is more like a home invasion, or being physically violated.

 

[ATpro]

So, that could mean my pecan, hickory, buckeye, and walnuts won't produce either

Don't know you will have to wait and see. If you have pecan bearing trees I can tell you one of the best things to put around them to help them to bare fruit. Go to an auto shop that turns brake drums and ask if you can have the metal filing from the break drum lathe. Take them home an spread them out under your pecan trees as for as the limbs go. What this does is add iron to the soil and the tree takes it up. You can take a tree that has quit bearing and start it bearing again

 

[pdqdl]

Yep, use 1oz roundup and 1/2oz triclopyr to the gallon to spray fields at a fast pace where I want to control woody brush and broad leaf and knock the grass back so I don't spend all that time bush hogging, doesn't kill the bahia grass just stunts it. You have to be careful with the roundup and not spray when the grass is short but at least a foot high or you may kill it. I use triclopyr on fire lanes because I want grass to grow to help with erosion.

Is that a backpack mixture? Seems kinda weak for woody brush.

Otherwise, if sprayer, what's your gallons per acre? That dosage could be anything from "holy cow strong" to "won't notice any effects".

 

[pdqdl]

So then what is causing the sheen?

I'm seeing a pattern and it appears that the effect on the leaf has to do with the stage of growth at the time it was hit.
I could be off, but I don't think so.
I also saw this mentioned in the warnings of some of the labels, to not spray the post-emergent at a specifice stage in the crop growth.
That would explain the various degrees of damage on the various leaves on various species.
Don't you think that's possible?

If you have lots of leaves available with a sheen, try hitting it with a mist of staight water out of an atomizing sprayer. Be SURE it is clean water you are spraying. If the water flattens out on contact, sticking to the leaf with no droplets of water standing up, that is a good sign of a surfactant being present. Before you come to a conclusion, however, harvest some similar species leaves from a long distance away, and do a similar test. In the absence of a genuine chemical test, that is probably as good as you can hope for in a diagnostic test.

Here's how effective these surfactants usually are: when I go out spraying lawns, it isn't unusual to get some spray back on the operator, particularly on those windy days when you aren't supposed to be spraying. Once you get ANY of that stuff on your head or face, all your salty sweat runs right off your forehead, through your eyebrows, and straight into your eyes past your eyelashes, too. And that will continue to happen all day long. Washing and drying your head and face with soap is the only way to fix the problem, which is probably a good thing to do anyway.

I use the "sweat in the eyes" problem as a metric for how clean I am staying when I'm out making applications.

 

[pdqdl]

Maybe because it was "spilled" and not sprayed?
It wouldn't have gotten directly on the leaves of the trees, but would have on the smaller weeds close to the ground.
There are articles galore I've seen in just the past two days on how many oaks have been damaged by Dicamba.
And seeing all the damaged oaks in my cousins yard, I believe it to be true.

Ummm... Nope! More likely it was warmer weather (june), and there was probably adequate slope that groundwater from rainfall carried it away. You see, the herbicides are also absorbed through the roots, it's just that under a normal application, there isn't such a large deposit of herbicide as my spill.

For the curious: I rolled my 300 gallon towable boom sprayer completely upside down on a hill in a city park. All the juices went glug-glug-glug out the fill opening at the top. We had a real nice stream running down the hill; there was no such thing as "containment" It was 1/2 full at the time.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

If you have lots of leaves available with a sheen, try hitting it with a mist of staight water out of an atomizing sprayer. Be SURE it is clean water you are spraying. If the water flattens out on contact, sticking to the leaf with no droplets of water standing up, that is a good sign of a surfactant being present. Before you come to a conclusion, however, harvest some similar species leaves from a long distance away, and do a similar test. In the absence of a genuine chemical test, that is probably as good as you can hope for in a diagnostic test.

Here's how effective these surfactants usually are: when I go out spraying lawns, it isn't unusual to get some spray back on the operator, particularly on those windy days when you aren't supposed to be spraying. Once you get ANY of that stuff on your head or face, all your salty sweat runs right off your forehead, through your eyebrows, and straight into your eyes past your eyelashes, too. And that will continue to happen all day long. Washing and drying your head and face with soap is the only way to fix the problem, which is probably a good thing to do anyway.

I use the "sweat in the eyes" problem as a metric for how clean I am staying when I'm out making applications.

DoA man said "DON'T TOUCH THEM"
I'm sure the inspector knows how to do all the necessary diagnostics required to determine what happened.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I've just added oakleaf hydrangea, Virginia creeper, and my lily of the valley to the list.
Things appear to be getting worse, not better.
The little winter honeysuckle is looking bad, too. New growth is shriveling up as it emerges on everything I looked at
There should be little seed pods on the lily of the valley. Looks like they got killed and fell off.


.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

This is how beautiful they were when I listed them on eBay

 

[pdqdl]

Don't know you will have to wait and see. If you have pecan bearing trees I can tell you one of the best things to put around them to help them to bare fruit. Go to an auto shop that turns brake drums and ask if you can have the metal filing from the break drum lathe. Take them home an spread them out under your pecan trees as for as the limbs go. What this does is add iron to the soil and the tree takes it up. You can take a tree that has quit bearing and start it bearing again

No, no, no! That's a bad idea. Without even going into the issues of putting metal on the ground, putting rusty metal above a plant isn't likely to help iron availability in the soil. Most machine shop metal filings come with cutting oil residues, and this is a tree hugger you are advising. Putting industrial oil spills on the base of a tree just isn't a good plan. Yeah, I know. Brake drum filings are not generated by using any cutting oil. But where are you going to find anybody that turns brakes these days? All the shops I know have quit doing it.

Instead, just get some iron sulfate from any decent farm or garden supplier. Broadcast, or better yet, drill a lot of holes around the tree in the soil and fill them with the iron sulfate mixed with the dirt you dug up. An 1 1/2 drill bit works great for that. This does two things: it adds soluble iron to the soil (usually not needed), and more importantly, it acidifies the soil, thereby making the iron in the soil more available to the plant. This is the old fashioned gold standard treatment for iron chlorosis in trees. And iron sulfate is really not expensive, as soil amendments go.

Now if you aren't observing any iron chlorosis, then you probably don't need such treatments, anyway. Iron is one of the most common elements on the planet, and not many soils are truly iron deficient. What happens is that a lot of soils get too basic (high pH), and the available iron in the soil is reduced. Acidify the soil (by any means; not just iron sulfate), and your iron chlorosis problem goes away.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Don't know you will have to wait and see. If you have pecan bearing trees I can tell you one of the best things to put around them to help them to bare fruit. Go to an auto shop that turns brake drums and ask if you can have the metal filing from the break drum lathe. Take them home an spread them out under your pecan trees as for as the limbs go. What this does is add iron to the soil and the tree takes it up. You can take a tree that has quit bearing and start it bearing again

Things just keep getting worse.
Looked at the buckeye and pecan. Bad.
The buckeye flowers were gorgeous. Now they are brown and dead. The little seed pods are coming unhinged and falling off.
Looks like the pecan buds have been killed too, and the tip on the new growth looks like it's been cooked..

 

[TNTreeHugger]

No, no, no! That's a bad idea. Without even going into the issues of putting metal on the ground, putting rusty metal above a plant isn't likely to help iron availability in the soil. Most machine shop metal filings come with cutting oil residues, and this is a tree hugger you are advising. Putting industrial oil spills on the base of a tree just isn't a good plan. Yeah, I know. Brake drum filings are not generated by using any cutting oil. But where are you going to find anybody that turns brakes these days? All the shops I know have quit doing it.

Instead, just get some iron sulfate from any decent farm or garden supplier. Broadcast, or better yet, drill a lot of holes around the tree in the soil and fill them with the iron sulfate mixed with the dirt you dug up. An 1 1/2 drill bit works great for that. This does two things: it adds soluble iron to the soil (usually not needed), and more importantly, it acidifies the soil, thereby making the iron in the soil more available to the plant. This is the old fashioned gold standard treatment for iron chlorosis in trees. And iron sulfate is really not expensive, as soil amendments go.

Now if you aren't observing any iron chlorosis, then you probably don't need such treatments, anyway. Iron is one of the most common elements on the planet, and not many soils are truly iron deficient. What happens is that a lot of soils get too basic (high pH), and the available iron in the soil is reduced. Acidify the soil (by any means; not just iron sulfate), and your iron chlorosis problem goes away.

I was afraid of me or a critter getting a metal splinter in the foot.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

No improvement on the poplar and I think I officially have a dead redbud. Oaks are getting droopy, too.
This one particular redbud was beautiful. I know because when I weeded that spot I cut down all the volunteers but this one.