Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

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Looks like an interesting paper on herbicide auxins... ten years old though.

Evolution of Resistance to Auxinic Herbicides: Historical Perspectives, Mechanisms of Resistance, and Implications for Broadleaf Weed Management in Agronomic Crops
J. Mithila, J. Christopher Hall, William G. Johnson, Kevin B. Kelley, and Dean E. Riechers*

https://www.cambridge.org/core/serv...adleaf_weed_management_in_agronomic_crops.pdf
 
New and disturbing developments discovered today on my yard inspection...

Immature leaves are showing wild chlorophyll changes and are falling off the trees today, soft and pliable.
My guess is the synthetic auxin damaging the chlorophyll which will in turn also affect photosynthesis?
Necrosis of cell tissue?
fallen leaves3.JPGpaulownia.JPG
Also finding strange brown spots on most of the tree leaves. The same spots are also on some weeds under a white pine.
Herbicide?
buckeye5.JPGmaple2.JPG


These are weeds under the shade of a good sized white pine, close to the buckeye.
Looks like the same damage as seen on the tree leaves?

weeds under pine1.JPGweeds under pine3.JPG

And, the only white oak that "might" have a chance of survival..
whiteoak1.JPGwhiteoak2.JPG
 
Herbicide damage to grapevines.
https://ives-technicalreviews.eu/article/view/4869
This is absurd...
" Grape growers should take precaution to avoid off-target exposure of grapevines to herbicides, particularly around the sensitive flowering period."

I actually read an article where they suggested the nurserymen hang sheets, or towels around their nursery during spring spraying of crops.
:mad:
 
So are you going to do something legally to curb future issues and cover the replacement of lost value and time? You have sufficient evidence to do so and I would even suggest a ground water test or three. I know I would want them to fully understand the length of damage to not just the plants but also the needed emotional therapy sessions we are about to start reading about.
 
So are you going to do something legally to curb future issues and cover the replacement of lost value and time? You have sufficient evidence to do so and I would even suggest a ground water test or three. I know I would want them to fully understand the length of damage to not just the plants but also the needed emotional therapy sessions we are about to start reading about.
No. I've come to the conclusion nothing can be done about this incident... "no witnesses."
Although, I'm holding out for the inspectors report before officially throwing in the towel.
All the evidence that could possibly be collected to prove toxic herbicide damage to my property will never change the status quo. Farmers gonna farm. And I ain't moving.
"They" would never understand.

Who would I sue? Monsanto, or whoever it is that makes that crap, that's who.
But we all know thousands of people have tried and failed. An insignificant peon like me doesn't have a chance... and if I were to sue them it would be on behalf of the environment, not for myself. I would hope to get enough money out of them to put them out of business forever and I would invest all that money into healthy farming.

I get all the emotional therapy I need from my fish. And it's basically free. :havingarest:
 
No. I've come to the conclusion nothing can be done about this incident... "no witnesses."
Although, I'm holding out for the inspectors report before officially throwing in the towel.
All the evidence that could possibly be collected to prove toxic herbicide damage to my property will never change the status quo. Farmers gonna farm. And I ain't moving.
"They" would never understand.

Who would I sue? Monsanto, or whoever it is that makes that crap, that's who.
But we all know thousands of people have tried and failed. An insignificant peon like me doesn't have a chance... and if I were to sue them it would be on behalf of the environment, not for myself. I would hope to get enough money out of them to put them out of business forever and I would invest all that money into healthy farming.

I get all the emotional therapy I need from my fish. And it's basically free. :havingarest:
Sue the operator of the sprayer and or the farm owner. You are a witness and have pics for evidence now its up to a jury to see which side of the story they believe.
 
Sue the operator of the sprayer and or the farm owner. You are a witness and have pics for evidence now its up to a jury to see which side of the story they believe.
I can't do that.
I can ask the responsible farmer to file a claim for damages on his insurance, or pay out of pocket if he prefers, IF IF IF the inspectors report will positively ID who is responsible.
I highly doubt that will be the case though... his report will likely say, "Tree damage due to herbicide volatilization. Origin of herbicide undeterminable."
Now, if the report shows signs of BOTH 2-4-D and Dicamba, then it's clearly both farmers who sprayed the last week of April and I'll ask each of them to file a claim.
Then all I would need to do is get estimates for clean-up and replacement.
 
Maybe, maybe not... not if 1 ppm has the potential to cause killing damage. 1,000 ppm would just be over-kill.
And, is that 1 ppm being applied to a single leaf, or ten thousand leaves on a single tree?

Your "1 ppm" made me think of how much fluoride is permitted in municipal water... and I see definite similarities here.
They say, 1 ppm is a safe level for human consumption. However, what is glossed over is, 1 ppm for who and for how long? Is that 1 ppm safe for a five pound infant drinking 16 ounces of water/day, or is that safe for a 250 pound construction worker drinking three gallons/day?
There is also the accumulative effects of that acceptable amount to consider.

I don't want to go off on the fluoride issue, but I think the questions of "acceptable amount" and "accumulative amount" also apply to synthetic auxins in trees.
The growth regulators act at the cellular level and have a detrimental impact on the entire tree, not just the leaves. Don't they?

How is applying these synthetic auxins to a tree any different that genetically modifying a soybean to make it resistant to Round-up... but in reverse?

I found this article... the first paragraph went over my head, but it looks like it might be interesting.
Maybe you can decipher it? :) I'll read it tomorrow.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4362085/
Here's some more info to support your concerns. You are right to be very concerned about this poisoning trespass and it's long term effects--

Too many of these so-called "below regulatory concern" "acceptable levels" ignore what happens in the real world. The flawed science goes like this: A lot of it kills or sickens most, like the LD-100 dose (lethal to 100%), a lesser amount shows the LD-50, and so-called miniscule amounts appear to not show an effect, so the manufacturer and those poisoning for profit declare "no effect seen, therefore, safe". High doses, or "acute exposures" are harmful, but an alleged low dose threshold is extrapolated, assuming a linear dose response, ans some lower exposure is claimed that is safe, with no response.

Real world experience shows us several things: An amount of poison in one hit can have some effecft, however, the same amount, in low doses or continuous exposure can often have far worse effects. Consider this Yale article, which explains how hormonally active compounds behave quite differently when exposure is spread over time at low levels compared to the same amount in one or a few doses. "Scientists Warn of Low-Dose Risks of Chemical Exposure" https://e360.yale.edu/features/scie..._risk_of_endocrine_blocking_chemical_exposure

A second aspect of long-term low level exposure is the cumulative effects of exposure. They are usually worse than acute hits. The earlier comments by some that the effects of this drift poisoning are temporary or recoverable implies the poison is cleared (metabolized), like recovering from drinking, and all will be well. Often not true, though the poisons industry would want us to think so, (just like the [false] claim that "the pesticide sticks to the clay" and doesn't migrate.)

The "too little to matter" so the poison "won't hurt you" falsehood is even addressed in this book, The Myth of the Linear, No-Threshold Dose-Response Relationship for Carcinogens, available from Amazon.

The effect of exposure over time, especially low exposure over a long time, is studied under a science model with a name: "The Druckrey–Küpfmüller equation established in the early 1960s explains why toxicity may occur after prolonged exposure to very low toxicant levels. In essence, this equation states that the total dose required to produce the same effect decreases with decreasing exposure levels, even though the exposure times required to produce the same effect increase with decreasing exposure levels. Druckrey and Küpfmüller inferred in the late 1940s that if both receptor binding and the effect are irreversible, exposure time would reinforce the effect." (from the excellent site https://www.farmlandbirds.net/en/taxonomy/term/3)

Another profound and dangerous truth about these poisons is this: we aren't just different in how we handle poisons (biochemical individuality), but how we handle the poison in us--what it's lasting effect is--is shaped by when we are poisoned. Childhood? Puberty? during a growth spurt? Stressful time in our life? At critical times in our growth, from being a neonate to infant to child...and on, poisons can have far more harmful effects at some times than others. If one is concerned about children and their health, download and read lot's more about pesiticides and poisoning kids at In Harm’s Way: Toxic Threats to Child Development, by the Greater Boston Chapter of Physician's for Social Responsibility https://gbpsr.org/resources/in-harms-way/
or Dr. Philip Landrigan's Children as a Vulnerable Population.

----------------
I had intended to post on this ongoing topic--pesticides, drift of this poison, and others and how the health effects are very serious and can't be ignored. I'll post more on that later. The connection to the exploding levels of Parkinson's Disease and the link to pesticides is something every poison user should know about, as well as their children and neighbors. Dozens of recent studies show this truth.

I'll post more later, but for those interested, check out this documentary by U of Rochester's School of Neurology, funded by Roche, which follows from the book Ending Parkinson's Disease. Pesticides and solvents are discussed by those harmed:

The Long Road to Hope: Ending Parkinson's Disease



For the record, Parkinson's is progressive, degenerative, and incurable, not reversible. Pesticides and chemicals are proven causes. Rarely do the poisoned show any effects till it's too late...

Stay on this, TNTreeHugger. It's important people know what they are messing with. And if harming others (or their property), they should be held to account.

see also:

Parkinson’s Disease and Pesticides Exposure: New Findings From a Comprehensive Study in Nebraska, USA https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.tow...-54d3-a2a4-51054a68e5d0/56f5b86f91feb.pdf.pdf

https://endingpd.org/about-parkinsons, and

Preventing Parkinson’s Disease: An Environmental Agenda https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-parkinsons-disease/jpd212922
And if you are new to Parkinson's, here's a brief video that describes early stage symptoms: HAND
 
"Exposure of these very young leaflets to dicamba will generate a more severe form of the classic dicamba-induced cupping injury, in which the leaflet margins will be tightly rolled inward (Figure 3). In some cases, strongly cupped young leaflets also may exhibit a bullate leaf surface ― a botanical term describing the presence of rounded or globular bumps on the upper leaf surface."

THIS??
View attachment 993146

View attachment 993147View attachment 993148

These photos remind me of the real-world test for pesticide residues, Bioassay Test for Auxinic Herbicide Residues in Compost: Protocol for Gardeners in Washington State which can be found here: http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/Bioassay2011.pdf

The "test" works anywhere, not just WA. Leveraging the sensitivity of peas, which are particularly sensitive to the "tiny amounts" of residual pesticides, you can test whether one's potting soil is killing their plants, or if the neighbor's poison has trespassed onto your land and water.

And for those who mock concerns over small amounts, do "small amounts" not matter? Men's and women's sex hormones are controlling us at levels in the blood that measure very low, like "billionths of billionths" which is also the miniscule levels that pesticides harm adult humans at. Less for children and still much less for the unborn. (Testosterone, 300 ng/dl--that's very little but with big effects if high or low, or if interfered with by poisons...units explained here: https://environment.des.qld.gov.au/...48/data-handling-units-and-concentrations.pdf)

Children's brains, and ours, have much more sensitive processes going on than peas. These poisons aren't metabolized so much as much as they are bioconcentrated in plants and animals and especially in the animals that eat tainted plants. Consuming dairy--a concentrated source of farm poisons--further ups you body burden. The nursing infant is at the top of our food chain, and gets dosed as the mother clears the pesticides. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep38355
---------
from the bioassay, linked above and here: http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/bioassay.html



1654575366083.png
 
I can't do that.
I can ask the responsible farmer to file a claim for damages on his insurance, or pay out of pocket if he prefers, IF IF IF the inspectors report will positively ID who is responsible.
I highly doubt that will be the case though... his report will likely say, "Tree damage due to herbicide volatilization. Origin of herbicide undeterminable."
Now, if the report shows signs of BOTH 2-4-D and Dicamba, then it's clearly both farmers who sprayed the last week of April and I'll ask each of them to file a claim.
Then all I would need to do is get estimates for clean-up and replacement.
Are you sure you cant do that?
 
I don't want to do that...
If the farmer didn't intentionally cause the drift, or allow it to happen from his negligence - and I don't believe either happened in this case - then I can't hardly blame the farmer, can I?
Hell yes! If I don't purposely cut a tree to cause injury and the wind blows it off course and it strikes something am I liable? You need to file a Civil Suit. So you don't want to or think you cant? They are responsible for the damage no doubt.
 
I've already contacted two "big shot" firms and they're not interested because there isn't any "personal injury."
Hell, there aren't even any dead trees at this point in time - how da hell do you accuse someone of doing damage when, as I think Raintree said earlier, all I have is crumpled leaves?
Its not enough money for them. Just get estimates to replace the damaged trees and file a Civil claim your self ,make a file and put everything in chronological order with photos and precede. Also try suing his insurance company.
 
I can do that... but that's after I see the inspectors report and if he won't ID the responsible farmer.
Maybe I'll call the county commissioner today and see what he has to say about it.
And who knows who is cousins or buds with who there so! Its real obvious that there is damage to those trees.
 
Speaking of crumpled leaves...
View attachment 993987
just 24 hours after being yellow/green and supple.
:oops:
Chestnut. That is some good evidence you are building there keep it up. I mean 24 hrs later sure is incriminating on the part of the offender. I think you stand a good shot at this.
 
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