Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Argh, what a mess, the wheels of progress are never still ... except when there's a ditch to back fill hey?
Try the media, local paper or something.
Try the media, local paper or something.
Trenching through oak roots
- Thread starter Sara
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Sara
ArboristSite Lurker
treeseer said:
Actually, he just happened to be available when I dropped by to find out what the county right-of-way is on our road. He didn't even know who I was - at first.
But our conversation didn't go very far before he realized who I was. I could see it dawn on him. At that point, he decided that the right-of-way was treeline to treeline, rather than back slope to back slope, as he had stated previously. He assured me that trenching under the trees wouldn't hurt them. He said he trenches under his trees all the time, and they're fine.
Today, I saw a lawyer (I don't call him "mine", anymore). He sighed, rolled his eyes, and assured me that trenching under the trees wouldn't hurt them, that he trenches under his all the time, and they're just fine.
Arrogant. Snide. Pained. (As in, "What is she worrying her pretty little head with these things for? I just know she's going to get hysterical any minute....") That's how I would characterize their attitudes. Although the judge tried to put on some charm and hit on me, brazenly enough that my son, who was present at the meeting, commented on it later that evening. In fact, hizonner was the second one of the players in this drama to do that; but the utility guy was even more shameless. You can see why my husband likes zzrjohn's way of thinking.
Shady dealing #1: When I asked the back hoe driver why the water company neglected to give us any advance notice of their plan (barring the kick they got that morning out of seeing me stumble outside, all bleary-eyed and in my PJ's, going "Whaaa...?"), he replied that the developer had conveniently forgotten to inform them that he had sold a parcel of his acreage 3 years ago. He had told them we were renters. Hence, the surprise attack of last week.
Shady dealing #2: Ostensibly, there are some people down the line who don't have enough water pressure. That's why they're putting in the bigger, better line. They're hiding behind a "common good" project, which gives them the option of condemning our land so the developer can rape it. At least that's the way I read it.
I think shady dealings are like cockroaches - you see one or two, there are bound to be more.
And now the good news. An ISA-Certified Arborist will making a visit to our place tomorrow. Kinda looking forward to that. It should be an interesting day. He said he'd be arriving right about lunchtime. Oh, do I need to feed him?
That report was very helpful, treeseer. I'm learning a lot.
One more thing: Is it appropriate to ask a member of this fourm if they're available for a consult? We don't have many consultants in my neck of "the Natural State".
The saga continues....
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sure, I'm available, just take care of the air fare. lol
You need to video or get pics of the size of the roots that they'll be hacking thru.
Any over 1" dia are deemed structural roots.
"look lady, it's just a tree, we trench around them all the time, wazz ya problem, the knitting forum closed" lol :deadhorse:
What chance ya got with that sort of mentality.
Hey, keep an eye out on the video area, I'm gonna put a video up of what the developers did to a tree here and it's a right PITA to do now as they cut the guts out of it, built around and under it and now it's dying. Why they didn't just bowl it over or protect it who knows, but this here is Queensland who call themselves the Smart State!! Pack of cowboys and conmen more like it.
I gotta make the video first.
You need to video or get pics of the size of the roots that they'll be hacking thru.
Any over 1" dia are deemed structural roots.
"look lady, it's just a tree, we trench around them all the time, wazz ya problem, the knitting forum closed" lol :deadhorse:
What chance ya got with that sort of mentality.
Hey, keep an eye out on the video area, I'm gonna put a video up of what the developers did to a tree here and it's a right PITA to do now as they cut the guts out of it, built around and under it and now it's dying. Why they didn't just bowl it over or protect it who knows, but this here is Queensland who call themselves the Smart State!! Pack of cowboys and conmen more like it.
I gotta make the video first.
It'd be interesting to pop in for a visit to their estates and look at their trees and their trenches.Sara said:
Can you visit the folks down the way and find out the truth? Is the developer who lied about property ownership building more houses? If so, that's what the added pressure is needed for. The town sees this trench as for the common good, because it increases their income--they get more taxes, and fees from water sold. If it's bad for you, no matter, you are locked in as a customer.
An ISA-Certified Arborist will ...be arriving right about lunchtime. Oh, do I need to feed him?
Is it appropriate to ask a member of this fourm if they're available for a consult? We don't have many consultants in my neck of "the Natural State".
Yes, arborists need to be fed, a little dessert anyway.
The only ASCA member in AR is in Maumelle, wherever that is. See what your arborist says about the trees' chances, and what steps you can take to invigorate the uncut roots to increase those chances. S/he should be familiar with those books, Trees & Development has been out for some time.
I just heard from the client I did that report for. She's having to send a certified letter to the builder, seeking damages, before she's forced to file in small claims court. Many low-cost options for getting protection and/or compensation, trouble is there are no guarantees.
If you want a tele-consultation, pm me here.
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
Keep a little black book. Write down every comment, every time one of this crowd hits on you, every innuendo, every person who witnessed said comments (if any), date and time. EVERYTHING.
Sometimes this can make the difference between winning and losing a lawsuit. It takes things out of the "he said, she said" category.
No, it's not ironclad proof. Look at it as ammunition. If you are going into battle, you want ammunition. You don't examine each shell and discard it if you can't guarantee it will kill an enemy. You want as many chances as you can get.
Sometimes this can make the difference between winning and losing a lawsuit. It takes things out of the "he said, she said" category.
No, it's not ironclad proof. Look at it as ammunition. If you are going into battle, you want ammunition. You don't examine each shell and discard it if you can't guarantee it will kill an enemy. You want as many chances as you can get.
Sara
ArboristSite Lurker
I'm waiting for my arborist's written report, but I feel a little ambivalent about today's consultation. It seems the trees may be worth less than I was hoping.
Which is as distasteful a statement as I've ever made. It's impossible to put a monetary value on trees. It seems sinful even to try. There is no question that they are of economic benefit to us, in many and diverse ways. Still, no dollar amount can accurately represent a tree's intrinsic worth to it's environment.
Upon researching "eminent domain abuse" and "condemnation law", I've come to realize that I can't accept dollars for my trees. I would feel dirty if I did. The very thought of my bank balance increasing... the track hoe gouging and ripping roots away from themselves ... and the great trees gasping in shock and pain... is more than I can bear.
That there are people who can not only bear it but who indeed thrive on it is incomprehensible to me. The planet Uranus has completed half of its journey around the Sun in my lifetime, and I still don't get it.
I know a way I can lock myself onto my fence, in the path of the heavy machinery, and they wouldn't be able to get at the handcuffs without injuring me. If it comes to that....
"Oh god, she's going hysterical...." :hmm3grin2orange: I am pretty burnt out, though.
I confess my documentation is not what it should be. I can get it up to snuff, though, with just a few hours intensive work. So much has happened so fast.
That video from Queensland was really well done. Visionary work!
BTW, can a Siberian Elm have the silhouette of an America Elm? You know, tall, with that graceful umbrella-like canopy?
And is it common to get a second opinion?
Which is as distasteful a statement as I've ever made. It's impossible to put a monetary value on trees. It seems sinful even to try. There is no question that they are of economic benefit to us, in many and diverse ways. Still, no dollar amount can accurately represent a tree's intrinsic worth to it's environment.
Upon researching "eminent domain abuse" and "condemnation law", I've come to realize that I can't accept dollars for my trees. I would feel dirty if I did. The very thought of my bank balance increasing... the track hoe gouging and ripping roots away from themselves ... and the great trees gasping in shock and pain... is more than I can bear.
That there are people who can not only bear it but who indeed thrive on it is incomprehensible to me. The planet Uranus has completed half of its journey around the Sun in my lifetime, and I still don't get it.
I know a way I can lock myself onto my fence, in the path of the heavy machinery, and they wouldn't be able to get at the handcuffs without injuring me. If it comes to that....
"Oh god, she's going hysterical...." :hmm3grin2orange: I am pretty burnt out, though.
I confess my documentation is not what it should be. I can get it up to snuff, though, with just a few hours intensive work. So much has happened so fast.
That video from Queensland was really well done. Visionary work!
BTW, can a Siberian Elm have the silhouette of an America Elm? You know, tall, with that graceful umbrella-like canopy?
And is it common to get a second opinion?
Trenching
Only the government can claim imminent domain and it takes time.
You may want to line up a lawyer. A a few hundred bucks there, with the arborist's opinion, may be worthwhile. It will be cheaper for the developer to cross the road than to fight with you!
In my opinion (worthless, I know), if there is no deeded right away you have a lot of authority to control your land. Maybe you could get free water!
The boring machines are common, so that could be the answer. They would trench to both sides of you, then bore between.
There are trees all along the road. Have any of the neighbors been fighting?
Banding together would probably help.
Why aren't they on the other side of the road anyway?
Keep upp the fight. You don't owe them anything! Try to get an injunction if nothing else seems to be working. I'd spend a few thou on this if they were mine, since they certainly contribute to your house value!
Keep us posted, please,
Wilson
Only the government can claim imminent domain and it takes time.
You may want to line up a lawyer. A a few hundred bucks there, with the arborist's opinion, may be worthwhile. It will be cheaper for the developer to cross the road than to fight with you!
In my opinion (worthless, I know), if there is no deeded right away you have a lot of authority to control your land. Maybe you could get free water!
The boring machines are common, so that could be the answer. They would trench to both sides of you, then bore between.
There are trees all along the road. Have any of the neighbors been fighting?
Banding together would probably help.
Why aren't they on the other side of the road anyway?
Keep upp the fight. You don't owe them anything! Try to get an injunction if nothing else seems to be working. I'd spend a few thou on this if they were mine, since they certainly contribute to your house value!
Keep us posted, please,
Wilson
Sarah, did the arborist find defects in the tree, and talk more about them than their value? Any reason not to share the main points?
I'm looking after a couple of medium-big oaks right now with excavations 10-15' away. I think they'll be ok, but it takes a lot of special care. On a 34" white oak I looked at today, I'll be pruning roots 4' away this fall, to take the pressure off the house foundation.
Done right, it works. So your oak could have a fair chance of surviving. The elm, very poor.
I'm looking after a couple of medium-big oaks right now with excavations 10-15' away. I think they'll be ok, but it takes a lot of special care. On a 34" white oak I looked at today, I'll be pruning roots 4' away this fall, to take the pressure off the house foundation.
Done right, it works. So your oak could have a fair chance of surviving. The elm, very poor.
Sara
ArboristSite Lurker
I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to go over the details of the consultation here. Plus, I don't want to burn you guys out.treeseer said:
But, since you asked....
I did a lot of listening, not much talking. Partly because I want to learn, and partly because my arborist was very much in control of the meeting. Which was okay, because I was running on little sleep and I had two 10 year old clowns to see to. He seemed a knowledgeable and decent fellow.
When he arrived, the first thing he asked was how I had learned about him. I told him ArboristSite.com had referred me to the ASCA website who, in turn, referred me to him. He asked me how I knew the word "arborist", and I thought to myself, "Well- hm... not sure, can't remember ever not knowing it", but I told him I was something of a "treelover". He said ASCA is doing a kind of educational promotion, and that it must be working, because more people are requesting arborists' services than ever before. I wondered aloud if that might have anything to do with the fact that more people than ever need to protect their trees from developers. He gave a little laugh, but didn't respond.
The first thing he pointed out about the trees was the nail with the pink tie that had been driven into the oak. My husband and I had noticed that months ago, and we expected someone would be by to explain it to us; then life happened and we forgot about it.
He said it was good that we had gotten this process started, since there is road work in the future; and he was optimistic about us being able to keep the county and the utilities off the trees' roots. He did his thing, walking around the yard, examining and measuring all the trees (not just the oak and elm). He took notes and pictures and sketched a little, but he didn't refer to any books.
He said we had a "nice old Post Oak" that was worth probably 3 to 4 thousand; that it would be worth more if it were in the landscaped yard of a "nice house"; and that "another arborist might come in and say it's overmature, cut it down", but that he didn't see any reason to do that. He then went over some of the ways that the oak was valuable to our property, like framing and shading the house and keeping it cooler in the summer. And that our yard would look empty without it.
According to him, the elm is a Siberian Elm, a "trash tree", worth only about 1 or 2 thousand.
On the issue of the Red Bud and the recent trench dug underneath it, he said it was almost dead anyway, and the water company didn't have anything to do with that. I didn't get a chance to ask him if it could be saved.
He said the trees' chances of survival were pretty slim. Regarding the elm (and I kept meaning to mention this to you), the water company has offered to trench the other side of it, through the fence that runs perpendicular to the road, cutting roots halfway between the drip line and the trunk. The arborist just kind of shook his head at that.
About the oak, he said the best thing would be to keep the machinery off it, and he explained how trees go about dying. He never mentioned boring as an alternative. His focus seemed to be on finding a completely different route for the water line, which we discussed at length.
He was here for about an hour and seemed to be in a bit of a hurry. But isn't everyone, these days? He's going to email me his report soon, and then mail me a report on letterhead next week.
Still not sure what I think of it all.
As for getting neighbors involved: we are the ONLY homeowners affected in this way by this project. There are no neighbors to band together with. See, we are at the end of the water line, which comes in from the south. The stretch of land to the north has no houses, no water, for about a mile. The water company is running this line in from the north and, until they got within about a third of a mile of our place, they were burying it on the opposite side of the road. Not only do the phone poles switch sides about there but, also, the land to be developed is on that (our) side of the road, adjacent to us. Until I go over to my neighbor's to the south and explain what's going on (since one of our alternative routes involves using a huge natural gas easement that runs through their treeless pasture), we are the only ones dealing with this.
Wilson, thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm probably seeing another attorney next week, one that specifically works with eminent domain cases. Just hope he's on the "right" side of them. And I'm looking forward to the arborist's report.
Just wanted to mention, about my last post: I had been up WAY too long! :blush:
gladhatter
ArboristSite Lurker
Sara I think I hold the distinction here to help you more than any other answers yet and that is not because I am the smartest person nor the brightest star but just because I am a practical hillbilly hat maker that is a jack or all trades and master of one. Its not trees.
These answers you are getting is concerning your questions about trees and I will give you my 2 cents on them shortly as well but this issue should not be about trees.
This sounds like local politics in play and also no one telling you to just say NO!
Who the hell are these people that think they can give you options for how you decide to use your property?
Next Right or way? Right to what check the public record at the court house and I think you will find the only rights given was them to construct and maintain a road within a given area of ground and not any water or utilities.
You do NOT have to agree for them to put any water lines in and the worst you are going to do is piss off the folks that want it.
I am not advising you to do or not do anything but trying to spread a little hillbilly logic around here as we go through this ???? all the time with every Tom, Dick and Harry that wants to make money at others expense and think they can push you around.
If you have a right to bear arms then pull the damn gun out and escort them off your property and let them go to court not you. If they are rich enough or have the public officials or Judge bought off then sure they will tackle you and if only rich enough then they will come in with lawyers or others trying to buy the rights they clearly do not now have or would have acted on them already.
You have the power of negotiation here and the power to not negotiate as well. This is about as simple as snot and yet yall are blowing it into some major event. It may get to be one but its not yet.
Decide what you want to do and do it.
Now here I am about to be a fool and argue with professions about thier assessments of your business. I have a different assessment that makes sence to me and I think it will to you and all concerned if presented with cool passionate plea and followed by female tanturms if necessary and then court actions.
First of all I have cut down dug up and move and dug around more trees than carter has liver pills. I am not a tree hugger but I am a tree lover and I love to harvest them when its advised and preserve them when its in my interest and abuse them when I wish if they are mine.
I have never killed one in my life by digging next to it and in fact you could not dig them trees up with a back hoe in less than a week of straight digging if at all. Excavuator big enough would dig them out in a couple 3 hours. My buddy Berry has moved many trees bigger than them off strip jobs and transplanted them and they lived. I have moved smaller ones and they dies.
NEVER killed one yet digging through the roots or laying water lines. Have killed a few by piling dirt around them most all in fact.
Cannot imagine what they want to do is going to kill them trees but be damned if I would let them do it anyway if I did not want it.
Now consider the value as this. Make the contract and have them sign it for complete replacement of the tree and not the abstract value of what ever this persons title is that makes them a tree expert. Thiers is just an over paid opinion if it comes to pricing your trees from their experience.
What they basing it on? Timber value on stump ? Shurbry cost + added growth value ? Its all crazy they cannot evaluate what them trees are worth to you and certainly its all relative and if they want to do that, let a person from Japan come evaluate them for you and I think it will be in the billions is thier assessment.
You should to me to be practical, smart, knowledabale to an extent of the locals and savvy. Use all the advises given and choose your own course as in the end ain't no one here going to finance your problems nor solutions for you and you alone will have to sleep with your decisions.
About Trolls, We fight them all the time on our forum and its a chronic problem and many will call me one after this post of reality. Please understand something how ever. I never heard of a forum or board 3 years ago and now I been kicked off more than I can count for my practical reasoning and strong opinions. My strongest opinion is most folks on them are fine folks indeed but most have a forum political hierarchy ranking that they do not want opposed and they want to be the ones with the answers and expect folks to abide by them. NON political correctness like mine is loved by a few and hated by most and yet is pretty practical stuff in times like these.
Now I make hats but I also run the mountain poverty justice advocacy center and I may find the time to help you a bit if you need it and if so its for free not for money but we have done little advocacy out side this area lately due to time constraints.
Let me know if I can do more for you than a few opionated words on a message board like calling some of them crooks down for you and putting them in their place and give them a dose or reality. I think I can fit that much in for sure.
Hope this helps
Charlie
These answers you are getting is concerning your questions about trees and I will give you my 2 cents on them shortly as well but this issue should not be about trees.
This sounds like local politics in play and also no one telling you to just say NO!
Who the hell are these people that think they can give you options for how you decide to use your property?
Next Right or way? Right to what check the public record at the court house and I think you will find the only rights given was them to construct and maintain a road within a given area of ground and not any water or utilities.
You do NOT have to agree for them to put any water lines in and the worst you are going to do is piss off the folks that want it.
I am not advising you to do or not do anything but trying to spread a little hillbilly logic around here as we go through this ???? all the time with every Tom, Dick and Harry that wants to make money at others expense and think they can push you around.
If you have a right to bear arms then pull the damn gun out and escort them off your property and let them go to court not you. If they are rich enough or have the public officials or Judge bought off then sure they will tackle you and if only rich enough then they will come in with lawyers or others trying to buy the rights they clearly do not now have or would have acted on them already.
You have the power of negotiation here and the power to not negotiate as well. This is about as simple as snot and yet yall are blowing it into some major event. It may get to be one but its not yet.
Decide what you want to do and do it.
Now here I am about to be a fool and argue with professions about thier assessments of your business. I have a different assessment that makes sence to me and I think it will to you and all concerned if presented with cool passionate plea and followed by female tanturms if necessary and then court actions.
First of all I have cut down dug up and move and dug around more trees than carter has liver pills. I am not a tree hugger but I am a tree lover and I love to harvest them when its advised and preserve them when its in my interest and abuse them when I wish if they are mine.
I have never killed one in my life by digging next to it and in fact you could not dig them trees up with a back hoe in less than a week of straight digging if at all. Excavuator big enough would dig them out in a couple 3 hours. My buddy Berry has moved many trees bigger than them off strip jobs and transplanted them and they lived. I have moved smaller ones and they dies.
NEVER killed one yet digging through the roots or laying water lines. Have killed a few by piling dirt around them most all in fact.
Cannot imagine what they want to do is going to kill them trees but be damned if I would let them do it anyway if I did not want it.
Now consider the value as this. Make the contract and have them sign it for complete replacement of the tree and not the abstract value of what ever this persons title is that makes them a tree expert. Thiers is just an over paid opinion if it comes to pricing your trees from their experience.
What they basing it on? Timber value on stump ? Shurbry cost + added growth value ? Its all crazy they cannot evaluate what them trees are worth to you and certainly its all relative and if they want to do that, let a person from Japan come evaluate them for you and I think it will be in the billions is thier assessment.
You should to me to be practical, smart, knowledabale to an extent of the locals and savvy. Use all the advises given and choose your own course as in the end ain't no one here going to finance your problems nor solutions for you and you alone will have to sleep with your decisions.
About Trolls, We fight them all the time on our forum and its a chronic problem and many will call me one after this post of reality. Please understand something how ever. I never heard of a forum or board 3 years ago and now I been kicked off more than I can count for my practical reasoning and strong opinions. My strongest opinion is most folks on them are fine folks indeed but most have a forum political hierarchy ranking that they do not want opposed and they want to be the ones with the answers and expect folks to abide by them. NON political correctness like mine is loved by a few and hated by most and yet is pretty practical stuff in times like these.
Now I make hats but I also run the mountain poverty justice advocacy center and I may find the time to help you a bit if you need it and if so its for free not for money but we have done little advocacy out side this area lately due to time constraints.
Let me know if I can do more for you than a few opionated words on a message board like calling some of them crooks down for you and putting them in their place and give them a dose or reality. I think I can fit that much in for sure.
Hope this helps
Charlie
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
gladhatter said:
Why am I not surprised?
Hmmm. I coulda sworn they got the mercury OUT of the hat making business.
Oooohkay, time to move along here...
Adkpk
Addicted to ArboristSite
BlueRidgeMark said:Why am I not surprised?
Hmmm. I coulda sworn they got the mercury OUT of the hat making business.
Oooohkay, time to move along here...
Blue ridge you are one of the funny one's on this site. Mercury, man I am rolling.
gladhatter
ArboristSite Lurker
Folks I am not sure what you are saying and doubt you understand much of what I say as I am a poor writer.
Clearing this up and moving on, I am no expert in any thing and did not promote myself to be. I have strong opinions and stated them as such and not necessiarly qualified ones certainly not ones formed from text books nor professors but from near 50 years of practical living and living around small and large town crooked politicials and in the back woods and carving a living out of these rocks as we do not have any dirt here.
Take my words if they are helpful and know they are free and probably worth the cost and likely not more.
Sorry if they offend you and they are not attacking anyone but instead are passionate pleas of years of living with no hidden agenda's.
If you find them stupid or usless, then please advoid them as they are not worth confronting.
Being confrontational on most forums will get me or you kicked off and most generally me but its not my mission here.
I happen to love trees and came here to talk about mercury chain saws big timber and days gone by. Just offered what I precieve to be helpful advise here and backed it up with an offer to do more than just talk and actually make some calls to help. If you find that offensive or too brave or arrogant sounding then I am sorry for your insecurities and wish you the best and fear the worst for you.
Two kinds in the world and that is the suscessful and the bitter and I am not going to be in the latter group and will not spend much time around them if I idenify them.
That is what I can do to help you maam on the proplem you have idenified and if you need or desire my help. I am at 276-926-6423 and [email protected] . Again I am not offering to sell you no mans answers when your questions was for free.
Let me know if I can do more and please do not attack my intended helpful solutions but oppose any of my answers with factual data if you feel compelled.
Charlie
Clearing this up and moving on, I am no expert in any thing and did not promote myself to be. I have strong opinions and stated them as such and not necessiarly qualified ones certainly not ones formed from text books nor professors but from near 50 years of practical living and living around small and large town crooked politicials and in the back woods and carving a living out of these rocks as we do not have any dirt here.
Take my words if they are helpful and know they are free and probably worth the cost and likely not more.
Sorry if they offend you and they are not attacking anyone but instead are passionate pleas of years of living with no hidden agenda's.
If you find them stupid or usless, then please advoid them as they are not worth confronting.
Being confrontational on most forums will get me or you kicked off and most generally me but its not my mission here.
I happen to love trees and came here to talk about mercury chain saws big timber and days gone by. Just offered what I precieve to be helpful advise here and backed it up with an offer to do more than just talk and actually make some calls to help. If you find that offensive or too brave or arrogant sounding then I am sorry for your insecurities and wish you the best and fear the worst for you.
Two kinds in the world and that is the suscessful and the bitter and I am not going to be in the latter group and will not spend much time around them if I idenify them.
That is what I can do to help you maam on the proplem you have idenified and if you need or desire my help. I am at 276-926-6423 and [email protected] . Again I am not offering to sell you no mans answers when your questions was for free.
Let me know if I can do more and please do not attack my intended helpful solutions but oppose any of my answers with factual data if you feel compelled.
Charlie
BlueRidgeMark said:Why am I not surprised?
Hmmm. I coulda sworn they got the mercury OUT of the hat making business.
Oooohkay, time to move along here...
Take it easy, dude. He hasn't even scratched the surface of some of the nonsensical blathering that others 'round here are so proficient at.
gladhatter
ArboristSite Lurker
dakota said:
Oh I dunno I think I can blatther non sence with the best of them. I at least have the added benefit that I am willing to back my words with actions and I think that is what good forums do is actually try to help folks. Just because I have a laxidazical writing style that is commenserate with my other hillbilly charms does not automatically preclude my eccentricites from having some basis of merit. I am not sure how well the rest have faired around here in contreversial issues but to date I am batting a 1000 and 100% wins on cases I have taken on with out compensation of any kind and while my case load is very limited now I did just favorably settle two complex matters recently.
I do not think this poor lady has a necessiarly complex matter to begin with. I can see she is a bit paniced but once bullies are opposed by crazy men from the hills they quite often like to defer to softer targets and I think her problem will soon dissapear in its entirity if she chooses and you folks may choose to think I do not have stupid printed accross my forehead after all.
Time will tell and some never forgive nor forget and would argue a black sheep is a white one even if they really believed it was grey or purple anyway.
Now how about we return this to helping this lady and not attacking the messenger or those attacking him and see if we can get a positive result that no one will be dispuraged about.
Charlie
stingray bay
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I just have to ask the obvious question, Sara have you asked why the pipe can't go down the middle, or even the other side of the road, well away from the trees? On the basis of further is better, I would have thought it was in everyones best interest, especially the trees! Regarding pruning the roots first, I would agree that it is too late, unless you can get them to put the job off until next year (do you know anyone with a D8 they could park over the proposed route for about 12 months Perhaps more importantly in your litigeous country if you do anything to the trees there is a good chance the other side could spread the blame for them dying back to you. Better that ALL of the fault was theirs!
Perhaps more importantly in your litigeous country if you do anything to the trees there is a good chance the other side could spread the blame for them dying back to you. Better that ALL of the fault was theirs!
Sara
ArboristSite Lurker
stingray bay -They'd have to deal with the phone company to bury the line on the opposite side of the road. Fiber optics lines are buried there. Easier and cheaper to trench through us.
Charlie - there are some old timers around here, folks who have a lot of experience with the woods, who think the trenching wouldn't hurt the trees either. I guess a lot of factors go into why a tree does or doesn't survive damage to its roots: the tree's general health to begin with, what and how many roots are damaged, the season in which the damage occurs, whether there are drought conditions or not, and if the tree gets after care or not. With that many variables, some that are not under human control, it seems logical that the odds are against the trees. I mean, it's a big chance to take, cuz once it's done, it's done.
I enjoyed your posts. I won't say I agree with all of it, but you make some good points. And I like your style of writing.
I'd like to see my arborist's written report (due any time now) before I make any more moves. Thanks for your offer of help. Does it stand for a bit longer?
You said you came here to talk about "mercury chain saws big timber and days gone by." I hope this thread doesn't keep you from doing that. You probably have a lot to offer this forum.
By the way, folks on this forum have been very helpful to me. I really appreciate them letting me on here with my problems and questions. Everyone's input has been valuable.
Charlie - there are some old timers around here, folks who have a lot of experience with the woods, who think the trenching wouldn't hurt the trees either. I guess a lot of factors go into why a tree does or doesn't survive damage to its roots: the tree's general health to begin with, what and how many roots are damaged, the season in which the damage occurs, whether there are drought conditions or not, and if the tree gets after care or not. With that many variables, some that are not under human control, it seems logical that the odds are against the trees. I mean, it's a big chance to take, cuz once it's done, it's done.
I enjoyed your posts. I won't say I agree with all of it, but you make some good points. And I like your style of writing.
I'd like to see my arborist's written report (due any time now) before I make any more moves. Thanks for your offer of help. Does it stand for a bit longer?
You said you came here to talk about "mercury chain saws big timber and days gone by." I hope this thread doesn't keep you from doing that. You probably have a lot to offer this forum.
By the way, folks on this forum have been very helpful to me. I really appreciate them letting me on here with my problems and questions. Everyone's input has been valuable.
add to that the most important--what condition the tree is in pre-trenching. I agree with the hatter on:Sara said:
1. This is more a political problem than an arboricultural one, so a political solution should be sought. Your arborist and everyone else is looking first to moving the line, which makes the most sense.
2. Replacement Cost is more defensible than formulas in tree appraisal. It is very hard to explain the formulas to judges, even if you have a lot of practice. Some very large trees are moved these days, so it is possible to get the cost of delivering a BIG tree and re-establishing it.
This understanding is growing in the tree appraisal industry, though some are wedded to their formulas. The operative phrase is the guideline to use the largest commonly transplantable tree; it's all in how you define "commonly". YOur appraiser should be able to offer you a Replacement Cost Appraisal, but lacking that, there is a lot you can find out on this on the internet.
re trees surviving trenching, I don't hear the "no problem" line from anyone who works with trees and observes them closely. Sara you are right to say " it seems logical that the odds are against the trees. I mean, it's a big chance to take, cuz once it's done, it's done."
gladhatter
ArboristSite Lurker
Sara, no limits on when my help can expire and its more about passion that time. I have 24 hours every day of the week and I think I can manage to find a few for you if you should holler.
Best of luck on what ever you decide or do and of course I am not going to leave all this fun as it is just getting funner.
I agree these folk here have a nearly infinite knowledge and an inquiring mind like mine has a lot to learn here. Oppertunities around us all every day and I plan to use mine for positive and constructive things. Had I known of this place I may not have worried all year about the 10 inch hemlock that got its second move this winter.
Much to learn from these fine folks.
Charlie
Best of luck on what ever you decide or do and of course I am not going to leave all this fun as it is just getting funner.
I agree these folk here have a nearly infinite knowledge and an inquiring mind like mine has a lot to learn here. Oppertunities around us all every day and I plan to use mine for positive and constructive things. Had I known of this place I may not have worried all year about the 10 inch hemlock that got its second move this winter.
Much to learn from these fine folks.
Charlie
Sara
ArboristSite Lurker
Well, the arborist's report is in. And it's good news!
He has valued the oak at $12,425 and the elm at $4,625, using the Council of Tree and Plant Appraiser's Guide for Plant Appraisal, 9th Edition, published by the ISA.
I can't help but notice, treeseer, that those figures are pretty close to the one you threw out a few posts back.
How can I nicely ask our arborist about the discrepancy between the lower figure that he threw out during the field interview and the higher figure he put in his report? Do you think the higher figure is landscape value + replacement value?
We have over $17,000 worth of leverage now. If we play our cards right, that should get us somewhere.
So, we move now from the arboricultural phase into the political phase of this "life lesson". Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!
He has valued the oak at $12,425 and the elm at $4,625, using the Council of Tree and Plant Appraiser's Guide for Plant Appraisal, 9th Edition, published by the ISA.
I can't help but notice, treeseer, that those figures are pretty close to the one you threw out a few posts back.
How can I nicely ask our arborist about the discrepancy between the lower figure that he threw out during the field interview and the higher figure he put in his report? Do you think the higher figure is landscape value + replacement value?
We have over $17,000 worth of leverage now. If we play our cards right, that should get us somewhere.
So, we move now from the arboricultural phase into the political phase of this "life lesson". Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!
